Which Would You Carry?

Shadi Khalil · April 22, 2012, 01:55 PM

I normally don't start threads of this nature for fear of it degenerating into a caliber war. However, I'm a bit stumped and just wanted to hear some opinions..

I went to the gun show this weekend and picked up a lot of different SD ammo in .38 special. I got a really good deal on a bunch of Gold Saber and an even better deal on a similar amount of Georgia Arms FBI load. I know both are have been around for quite some time and I've always had good experience with the two but have never carried the FBI type load. Both are equally as accurate out of my snub but the GS has a bit more recoil, which isn't a problem.

My normal carry ammo ranges from GD short barrels, Hornandy standard pressure or Federal hydra's. I'm comfortable with those three but I know I'll eventually be carrying some of the new stuff. So, for SD carry in a Airweight revolver, which of the two would you carry?

Gold Saber 125gr. +P

Georgia Arms 158gr. Semi Wadcutter JHP +P

I know there has been plenty of discussion about semi wadcutters vs modern day hollow points. My question is more specific to one really dated bullet technology and another sorta dated bullet technology

Thanks.

Super Sneaky Steve · April 22, 2012, 02:42 PM

I prefer the bone breaking 158gr LSWCHP myself.

cole k · April 22, 2012, 02:55 PM

I, too, prefer the 158gr LSWCHP. But I'm old and set in my ways.

Shadi Khalil · April 22, 2012, 03:24 PM

Bone breaking is always a good thing. I remember hearing some reports about GS and jacket separation in the past but recent test I've seen didn't have that problem.

Crazy88Fingers · April 22, 2012, 03:35 PM

I wasn't aware GA made that load; I'll have to look for it next time they're in town.

You wrote that the GS has a little more recoil. Would the GA round be easier to shoot one-handed? Accuracy and shot placement are much more important than the fine print on a ballistics chart.

Shadi Khalil · April 22, 2012, 03:45 PM

Crazy,

Both can be fired accurately one handed but IMO its easier with the GA ammo. That 125gr bullet just has more snap to it which slows down follow up shots just a bit.

rodfac · April 22, 2012, 05:09 PM

That 125 gr Golden Saber is the round my wife and I carry in our .38 Spl S&W's. From her 637 with a 1-7/8" barrel, I chrono'd it at 928 fps for a five shot average. That serrated edge on the expanded bullet is the closest thing I've yet seen that compared the long gone and much lamented Winchester Black Talon.

The GS round is very accurate in both our revolvers...one inch at 10 yds from a Weaver Stance...I've posted the pic below, taken last year, when I did some comparative expansion and chrono testing of various rounds. All were shot into water (a swimming pool) and recovered. The LSWC is our practice round producing similar recoil in both our guns. While water only is not directly comparable to flesh and bone, the tests do give you some idea of what final expansion looks like in a duplicated medium.

Best Regards. Rodfac

BTW the Federal hydra-shok chrono'd at 840 fps from my wife's 2" barreled 637 Airweight and 951 fps from my 3" Chief's Special. Expansion was not at good, even at the higher velocity, as the Remington GS.

pete950 · April 22, 2012, 05:21 PM

the LSWHP

Shadi Khalil · April 22, 2012, 05:36 PM

Rodfac,

Those are some impressive results, both for the chrono and expansion. I watched a ballistic gelatin test done by TNoutdoors on YouTube and he produced the same results with expansion. If I recall correctly, it penatrated around 14 inches, fully expanded and retained its weight.

Shadi Khalil · April 22, 2012, 06:08 PM

For anyone interested, below is a link to the GS test done by Mr. TNoutdoors9 on YouTube. I highly recommend subscribing to his page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRe6B...e_gdata_player

Walklightly · April 23, 2012, 12:34 AM

I'd be ok with either.

FotoTomas · April 23, 2012, 01:46 AM

The 124 grain 9mm Golden Saber is my issued duty round. I would be happy with the Golden Saber in my S&W 638 as well. Currently I am using the less expensive Remington 125gr JHP in the 638.

Kreyzhorse · April 23, 2012, 06:52 PM

Really, either is fine. Generally though, I believe in throwing the most weight as you can at your target so I might lean towards the 158 gr.

mj246 · April 24, 2012, 02:14 AM

I would want to test the GA load a couple of times before trusting it. The 38 +p LSWCHP seems to have different reliability expansion-wise based on the hardness of the lead used. If I could test it for expansion in media of some sort (preferably with some cloth/denim/whatever in front it), I would. Otherwise, just take one out and see how soft the lead seems. Ideally it should be soft enough to deform when put under pressure, but not so soft that it will lead the barrel to heck in only a couple cylinders.

Unfortunately, I don't know exactly how to determine if it has this "magic" level of softness because I mostly shoot at an indoor range that doesn't allow non-jacketed ammo and so have very limited experience with plain lead projectiles. Maybe somebody else here could enlighten us as to a good way to estimate if a lead HP is soft enough to expand at 38spl velocities without firing the round.

bossman · April 24, 2012, 09:09 AM

I agree either will do the job. I like the heavier 158 gr LSWCHP with 38 spl.
I will say with the LSWCHP I like to pump it up to +p levels.

I'm pretty much old school in thinking heavier the better. Maybe one exception is the 9mm where I like the 124 gr over the heavier 147 gr.

Walklightly · April 24, 2012, 10:28 AM

You have to admit the Golden Saber is much prettier.

RedBowTies88 · April 24, 2012, 10:33 AM

.38spl standard pressure short barrel loading from buffalo bore

I carry it in my pre model 37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvVNtKicux4

drail · April 24, 2012, 10:39 AM

My choice would be a standard pressure 158 -160 gr. hard cast SWC.

Shadi Khalil · April 24, 2012, 06:20 PM

I'm a bit swamped at work and under the weather to boot but if I get time this weekend, I'll do some informal testing on a few rounds.

slow944 · April 25, 2012, 10:56 AM

I like the +P's out of my M60. They are easily controlled and do a good job on paper anyway.

briandg · April 26, 2012, 02:12 AM

take one of your lswhp and see how easily the lead deforms.

I've had loads of that round that were made with lead so hard it wouldn't deform. recovered rounds were marked with rifling only. No expansion. if they are indeed softer lead, go with either one. I have 125 gs in one of my house guns.

KyJim · April 27, 2012, 03:36 PM

I think either would suffice. Why not see which one shoots closer to point of aim?

Strafer Gott · April 27, 2012, 05:10 PM

GS looks pretty good. I load the Missouri bullets too. When they say hardcast,
they show you. I only load them as +P+ or .357 mag. I'd want to see what the GA 158 gr. load does first, it might be similar. I like Gold Dots or Nyclads, depending on what revolver of the month I'm packing. Nyclads are really soft lead. The size mouth on the GS reminds me of the Nyclad somewhat.

**4V50 Gary** · April 27, 2012, 05:18 PM

SWCHP. I like the heavier bullets.

Laz · April 30, 2012, 10:00 AM

Shadi Khalil - Normally I would recommend the 158 LSWCHP+P with little doubt except for one thing: you said the Remington load recoils a bit more than the GA load, did you not? That causes me to wonder if the GA load is fully a plus P load. In my experience the heavier loading in plus P should be the more heavily recoiling round. A 125 grain load at 900 fps should be roughly equal to a 158 grain load at only 712 fps which is standard pressure territory, velocity-wise. A 158 at 800 fps should recoil substantially more.

April 22, 2012, 01:55 PM	#1
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Which Would You Carry? I normally don't start threads of this nature for fear of it degenerating into a caliber war. However, I'm a bit stumped and just wanted to hear some opinions.. I went to the gun show this weekend and picked up a lot of different SD ammo in .38 special. I got a really good deal on a bunch of Gold Saber and an even better deal on a similar amount of Georgia Arms FBI load. I know both are have been around for quite some time and I've always had good experience with the two but have never carried the FBI type load. Both are equally as accurate out of my snub but the GS has a bit more recoil, which isn't a problem. My normal carry ammo ranges from GD short barrels, Hornandy standard pressure or Federal hydra's. I'm comfortable with those three but I know I'll eventually be carrying some of the new stuff. So, for SD carry in a Airweight revolver, which of the two would you carry? Gold Saber 125gr. +P Georgia Arms 158gr. Semi Wadcutter JHP +P I know there has been plenty of discussion about semi wadcutters vs modern day hollow points. My question is more specific to one really dated bullet technology and another sorta dated bullet technology Thanks.

April 22, 2012, 03:35 PM	#5
Crazy88Fingers Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: WesTex Posts: 958	I wasn't aware GA made that load; I'll have to look for it next time they're in town. You wrote that the GS has a little more recoil. Would the GA round be easier to shoot one-handed? Accuracy and shot placement are much more important than the fine print on a ballistics chart. __________________ "And I'm tellin' you son, well it ain't no fun, staring straight down a .44" -Lynyrd Skynyrd

April 22, 2012, 05:09 PM	#7
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	That 125 gr Golden Saber is the round my wife and I carry in our .38 Spl S&W's. From her 637 with a 1-7/8" barrel, I chrono'd it at 928 fps for a five shot average. That serrated edge on the expanded bullet is the closest thing I've yet seen that compared the long gone and much lamented Winchester Black Talon. The GS round is very accurate in both our revolvers...one inch at 10 yds from a Weaver Stance...I've posted the pic below, taken last year, when I did some comparative expansion and chrono testing of various rounds. All were shot into water (a swimming pool) and recovered. The LSWC is our practice round producing similar recoil in both our guns. While water only is not directly comparable to flesh and bone, the tests do give you some idea of what final expansion looks like in a duplicated medium. Best Regards. Rodfac BTW the Federal hydra-shok chrono'd at 840 fps from my wife's 2" barreled 637 Airweight and 951 fps from my 3" Chief's Special. Expansion was not at good, even at the higher velocity, as the Remington GS. __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

April 23, 2012, 06:52 PM	#13
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Really, either is fine. Generally though, I believe in throwing the most weight as you can at your target so I might lean towards the 158 gr. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

April 24, 2012, 09:09 AM	#15
bossman Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 996	I agree either will do the job. I like the heavier 158 gr LSWCHP with 38 spl. I will say with the LSWCHP I like to pump it up to +p levels. I'm pretty much old school in thinking heavier the better. Maybe one exception is the 9mm where I like the 124 gr over the heavier 147 gr. __________________ NRA life member When the going gets tough, I just open another beer.

April 22, 2012, 02:42 PM	#2
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,250	I prefer the bone breaking 158gr LSWCHP myself.

April 22, 2012, 02:55 PM	#3
cole k Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2008 Location: east of the Big Muddy Posts: 248	I, too, prefer the 158gr LSWCHP. But I'm old and set in my ways.

April 22, 2012, 03:24 PM	#4
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Bone breaking is always a good thing. I remember hearing some reports about GS and jacket separation in the past but recent test I've seen didn't have that problem.

April 22, 2012, 03:45 PM	#6
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Crazy, Both can be fired accurately one handed but IMO its easier with the GA ammo. That 125gr bullet just has more snap to it which slows down follow up shots just a bit.

April 22, 2012, 05:21 PM	#8
pete950 Member Join Date: April 11, 2010 Location: ILLinois Posts: 42	the LSWHP

April 22, 2012, 05:36 PM	#9
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Rodfac, Those are some impressive results, both for the chrono and expansion. I watched a ballistic gelatin test done by TNoutdoors on YouTube and he produced the same results with expansion. If I recall correctly, it penatrated around 14 inches, fully expanded and retained its weight.

April 22, 2012, 06:08 PM	#10
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	For anyone interested, below is a link to the GS test done by Mr. TNoutdoors9 on YouTube. I highly recommend subscribing to his page. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRe6B...e_gdata_player

April 23, 2012, 12:34 AM	#11
Walklightly Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2011 Posts: 985	I'd be ok with either.

April 23, 2012, 01:46 AM	#12
FotoTomas Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 180	The 124 grain 9mm Golden Saber is my issued duty round. I would be happy with the Golden Saber in my S&W 638 as well. Currently I am using the less expensive Remington 125gr JHP in the 638.

April 24, 2012, 02:14 AM	#14
mj246 Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Location: PA Posts: 282	I would want to test the GA load a couple of times before trusting it. The 38 +p LSWCHP seems to have different reliability expansion-wise based on the hardness of the lead used. If I could test it for expansion in media of some sort (preferably with some cloth/denim/whatever in front it), I would. Otherwise, just take one out and see how soft the lead seems. Ideally it should be soft enough to deform when put under pressure, but not so soft that it will lead the barrel to heck in only a couple cylinders. Unfortunately, I don't know exactly how to determine if it has this "magic" level of softness because I mostly shoot at an indoor range that doesn't allow non-jacketed ammo and so have very limited experience with plain lead projectiles. Maybe somebody else here could enlighten us as to a good way to estimate if a lead HP is soft enough to expand at 38spl velocities without firing the round.

April 24, 2012, 10:28 AM	#16
Walklightly Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2011 Posts: 985	You have to admit the Golden Saber is much prettier.

April 24, 2012, 10:33 AM	#17
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	.38spl standard pressure short barrel loading from buffalo bore I carry it in my pre model 37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvVNtKicux4 __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

April 24, 2012, 10:39 AM	#18
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	My choice would be a standard pressure 158 -160 gr. hard cast SWC.

April 24, 2012, 06:20 PM	#19
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	I'm a bit swamped at work and under the weather to boot but if I get time this weekend, I'll do some informal testing on a few rounds.

April 25, 2012, 10:56 AM	#20
slow944 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: DFW,TX Posts: 406	I like the +P's out of my M60. They are easily controlled and do a good job on paper anyway. __________________ I Have A 45 And A Shovel. Don't Mess With Texas! DFW,TX.

April 26, 2012, 02:12 AM	#21
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	take one of your lswhp and see how easily the lead deforms. I've had loads of that round that were made with lead so hard it wouldn't deform. recovered rounds were marked with rifling only. No expansion. if they are indeed softer lead, go with either one. I have 125 gs in one of my house guns.

April 27, 2012, 03:36 PM	#22
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I think either would suffice. Why not see which one shoots closer to point of aim?

April 27, 2012, 05:10 PM	#23
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	GS looks pretty good. I load the Missouri bullets too. When they say hardcast, they show you. I only load them as +P+ or .357 mag. I'd want to see what the GA 158 gr. load does first, it might be similar. I like Gold Dots or Nyclads, depending on what revolver of the month I'm packing. Nyclads are really soft lead. The size mouth on the GS reminds me of the Nyclad somewhat.

April 27, 2012, 05:18 PM	#24
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	SWCHP. I like the heavier bullets. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 30, 2012, 10:00 AM	#25
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	Shadi Khalil - Normally I would recommend the 158 LSWCHP+P with little doubt except for one thing: you said the Remington load recoils a bit more than the GA load, did you not? That causes me to wonder if the GA load is fully a plus P load. In my experience the heavier loading in plus P should be the more heavily recoiling round. A 125 grain load at 900 fps should be roughly equal to a 158 grain load at only 712 fps which is standard pressure territory, velocity-wise. A 158 at 800 fps should recoil substantially more. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody.