Swagged Lead Bullets - Leading

renaissance7697 · March 17, 2006, 11:02 AM

Tried some "Swagged" Lead Bullets (Hornaday).
44 Mag 240 grain SWC
Going for accuracy at 25 Yards in a Super Redhawk.

Using HP-38 ............7.0 grain
(Was attempting to keep velocity "Low" to avoid "Leading" )
Very Light to NO crimp.

Got LOUSY Accuracy
and
SEVERE Leading

I was (by someone in the group)referred to Beartooth for advice on avoiding leading.

Beartooth says TOO Little Velocity; leads up Barrels WORSE than TOO Much velocity.

OK all you Bears ( Mama Papa and Baby):
HP-38 - 44 Mag - 240gr Hornaday SWC Swagged Lead target Bullets

Velocity & How Much Powder (HP-38) to get there?

How much (velocity/HP-38) is Too Much
How much (velocity/HP-38)is Too Little
and
Just How much HP-38 is "JUST RIGHT" for good accuracy and Low/No leading?

Is HP-38 No Good for what I am trying to do?
What Powder might be better?
How much of "IT" to achive "ideal" Velocity
( and What IS that Ideal Velocity)?

Leftoverdj · March 17, 2006, 01:47 PM

Hornady swaged bullets are dead soft and best shot at low velocities. HP-38 ain't a powder that I use, but I know that it is one of the very fast powders. I'd go to something like 8 grains of Unique to get the pressure down and might give those bullets a coat of Liquid Alox.

Ignatz · March 17, 2006, 05:21 PM

I,ve been shooting cast lead bullets in all my .45 autos with 2.5" accuracy at 50 yards for the last 15 years. The same bullet shoots 4"-6" groups at 25 yards in my S&W 625 revolver. Then the barrel is so smeared up with lead, it takes forever to clean it. I tried different loads, bullets....same mess. With good jacketed bullets my 625 is dead accurate and stays clean. Good luck finding the right combination. I have a fleet of K-frames that love lead, not my 45 revolver. I'd probably put up with the leading, but the accuracy in this 625PC with lead is awful. Sorry for being so negitive, but I found out some guns just don't like lead.

Leftoverdj · March 17, 2006, 07:30 PM

Excuse me, Ignatz, but what you found out was that that gun does not like that load. I would not be so quick to generalize that to all lead loads.

If the other bullets were the same diameter, there is at least one variable you did not try. Lead bullets in revolvers need to be the diameter of the chamber throats or slightly larger. Throats also need to be at least the size of the groove diameter of the barrel.

If you have been shooting .451 diameter bullets, you might try .452.

Ignatz · March 17, 2006, 09:50 PM

I have a Rock Chucker set up for resizing my .452's to .451 if necessary. I do have one 45 that shoots .451 because of a leading problem. Thats a Kart barrel, but I have several other Karts and one Bar-Sto that are happy with .452. I originally "inhereted" 100's of loaded ammo from a friend who had an early 625 and used it in steel and bowling pin matches. He never had leading issues or accuracy problems. So i went out and bought a buddys 625 PC because I got all but 1000 rounds of free ammo. With my buddys ammo I could'nt gaurantee hitting a pie plate at 25 yards. When I took the gun home to look it over, It looked like I was shooting silver crayons through the barrel. I can get it to shoot maybe 3.5" at 25 yards with a light bullseye load but the leading is still bad. I shot Laser Cast 230's with 4gr of bullseye this weekend and shot 8's on an NRA 25 yd timed fire target. Imeditly shooting jacketed Hornadys I never left the 10 ring. I think on my generation PC gun they experemented with the rifleing size or dimension. The guy with the Red Hawk has more experimenting with cast bullets in his future.

Maybe he can shoot 44 special through his gun? I got a question mark there cause I'm not sure on that.

MADISON · March 18, 2006, 09:02 AM

Swagged lead bullets are softer than cast bullets.
I had the leading problem in several handguns so I pay the few cents extra for PLATED BULLETS. As long as you keep then below 1,200 fps you should not have a problem.

Quantrill · March 19, 2006, 01:20 PM

Revolver accuracy depends on bullet fit to the CHAMBER. In shooting lead, Big is good. Those are 2 cardinal rules of shooting lead in revolvers. Quantrill

flutedchamber · March 20, 2006, 11:16 PM

Although it is not the same caliber, I found that when I use Lee liquid alox cast bullet lube on my 38 HBWC and 158 gr Hornady bullets, it eliminates leading as long as I am fairly reasonable with the velocity. The 148 gr HBWC was the worst offender, being that it was swaged.

March 17, 2006, 11:02 AM	#1
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	Swagged Lead Bullets - Leading Tried some "Swagged" Lead Bullets (Hornaday). 44 Mag 240 grain SWC Going for accuracy at 25 Yards in a Super Redhawk. Using HP-38 ............7.0 grain (Was attempting to keep velocity "Low" to avoid "Leading" ) Very Light to NO crimp. Got LOUSY Accuracy and SEVERE Leading I was (by someone in the group)referred to Beartooth for advice on avoiding leading. Beartooth says TOO Little Velocity; leads up Barrels WORSE than TOO Much velocity. OK all you Bears ( Mama Papa and Baby): HP-38 - 44 Mag - 240gr Hornaday SWC Swagged Lead target Bullets Velocity & How Much Powder (HP-38) to get there? How much (velocity/HP-38) is Too Much How much (velocity/HP-38)is Too Little and Just How much HP-38 is "JUST RIGHT" for good accuracy and Low/No leading? Is HP-38 No Good for what I am trying to do? What Powder might be better? How much of "IT" to achive "ideal" Velocity ( and What IS that Ideal Velocity)? __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

March 18, 2006, 09:02 AM	#6
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Swagged lead bullets...leading Swagged lead bullets are softer than cast bullets. I had the leading problem in several handguns so I pay the few cents extra for PLATED BULLETS. As long as you keep then below 1,200 fps you should not have a problem.

March 17, 2006, 01:47 PM	#2
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Hornady swaged bullets are dead soft and best shot at low velocities. HP-38 ain't a powder that I use, but I know that it is one of the very fast powders. I'd go to something like 8 grains of Unique to get the pressure down and might give those bullets a coat of Liquid Alox.

March 17, 2006, 05:21 PM	#3
Ignatz Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Posts: 72	I,ve been shooting cast lead bullets in all my .45 autos with 2.5" accuracy at 50 yards for the last 15 years. The same bullet shoots 4"-6" groups at 25 yards in my S&W 625 revolver. Then the barrel is so smeared up with lead, it takes forever to clean it. I tried different loads, bullets....same mess. With good jacketed bullets my 625 is dead accurate and stays clean. Good luck finding the right combination. I have a fleet of K-frames that love lead, not my 45 revolver. I'd probably put up with the leading, but the accuracy in this 625PC with lead is awful. Sorry for being so negitive, but I found out some guns just don't like lead.

March 17, 2006, 07:30 PM	#4
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Excuse me, Ignatz, but what you found out was that that gun does not like that load. I would not be so quick to generalize that to all lead loads. If the other bullets were the same diameter, there is at least one variable you did not try. Lead bullets in revolvers need to be the diameter of the chamber throats or slightly larger. Throats also need to be at least the size of the groove diameter of the barrel. If you have been shooting .451 diameter bullets, you might try .452.

March 17, 2006, 09:50 PM	#5
Ignatz Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Posts: 72	I have a Rock Chucker set up for resizing my .452's to .451 if necessary. I do have one 45 that shoots .451 because of a leading problem. Thats a Kart barrel, but I have several other Karts and one Bar-Sto that are happy with .452. I originally "inhereted" 100's of loaded ammo from a friend who had an early 625 and used it in steel and bowling pin matches. He never had leading issues or accuracy problems. So i went out and bought a buddys 625 PC because I got all but 1000 rounds of free ammo. With my buddys ammo I could'nt gaurantee hitting a pie plate at 25 yards. When I took the gun home to look it over, It looked like I was shooting silver crayons through the barrel. I can get it to shoot maybe 3.5" at 25 yards with a light bullseye load but the leading is still bad. I shot Laser Cast 230's with 4gr of bullseye this weekend and shot 8's on an NRA 25 yd timed fire target. Imeditly shooting jacketed Hornadys I never left the 10 ring. I think on my generation PC gun they experemented with the rifleing size or dimension. The guy with the Red Hawk has more experimenting with cast bullets in his future. Maybe he can shoot 44 special through his gun? I got a question mark there cause I'm not sure on that.

March 19, 2006, 01:20 PM	#7
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Revolver accuracy depends on bullet fit to the CHAMBER. In shooting lead, Big is good. Those are 2 cardinal rules of shooting lead in revolvers. Quantrill

March 20, 2006, 11:16 PM	#8
flutedchamber Member Join Date: July 14, 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 61	Although it is not the same caliber, I found that when I use Lee liquid alox cast bullet lube on my 38 HBWC and 158 gr Hornady bullets, it eliminates leading as long as I am fairly reasonable with the velocity. The 148 gr HBWC was the worst offender, being that it was swaged.