Manton & Co.by Webley & Scott

.45-70 Rifleman · December 26, 2004, 09:23 PM

I need information on a SxS double rifle marked Manton & Co. and made for, or by, Webley & Scott. It is a hammerless boxlock with simple scroll engraving but nothing ornate. The caliber is marked 25-35. The reciever has what I believe are London proof marks - a crown over a V. I have looked in all the resources I have available and I find no association between Manton & Co. and Webley & Scott. Niether can I find any information on a small bore double rifle by Webley & Scott or by Manton & Co for that matter. I am assuming it was made for the USA market because it is marked 25-35 rather than 6.5x52R. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

Jim Watson · December 26, 2004, 10:39 PM

I don't know much but about 10 years ago I saw ads for two or more Manton branded double rifles in .32-40 over a short time. There were three ads placed in Gun List and one in a Cherry's brochure, but only two of them were out at the same time, so maybe there were four similar rifles coming out of closets, but there might have been only two guns being traded around. At least two, though.

There was no mention of W&S.
The Cherry's brochure said they were made in Germany for Manton. It was illustrated and their rifle was as you describe.

Crown (V) is the London view mark. There ought to be more proof marks than that.

.45-70 Rifleman · December 26, 2004, 11:56 PM

The actions look very much like the 700 series Webley & Scott actions but I am wondering if they are just knock-offs.

Harley Nolden · December 27, 2004, 05:48 AM

This was posted sometime ago in this forum and I am unable to post it again. If you will refer to the old postings you will be able to determine the Manton. The attached is also from SXS's of the World, however, these guns were after the death of J Manton

HJN

.45-70 Rifleman · December 27, 2004, 09:20 AM

Thank you, Harley. I had already looked through the forum before posting. All that I learned was that Mr. Manton had died before this gun was manufactured (the .25-35 didn't appear until 1895) and that the Manton name was subsequently used on some low end doubles. I was looking for more though.

1. Did Webley & Scott offer a SxS hamerless boxlock double rifle in a model marked Manton & Co on the sides of the reciever?
2. Did this start as a SxS shotgun that was later modified with rifle barrels?
3. Upon further examination of the proof marks it appears that some marks were struck out. Does this mean it was reproofed?
4. It says "NITROPROVED" and I see the number 32 three times. Could that be 3.2 and would that make it safe for the 38,000psi .25-35 ammunition? The barrels are not laminated or damascus and the bores are very good.

Lawyer Daggit · December 27, 2004, 09:13 PM

Manton as you know is a well known UK manufacturer- as is Webley & Scott.

A number of larger manufacturers like Webley used to market other peoples guns under their name but I have never seen the two names together.

Interesting piece.

Is it a shooter?

.45-70 Rifleman · December 28, 2004, 09:57 AM

I have yet to take it to the range. I want to be sure it is safe for factory ammo.

Jim Watson · December 28, 2004, 10:56 AM

There has never been but one standard loading of .25-35, if it was in proof and safe when new, it is safe now.

But I am confused. Is it MARKED Webley & Scott? Or just Manton? If the latter, where does the W&S connection come from?

What are the rest of the proof marks?

.45-70 Rifleman · January 7, 2005, 08:58 PM

The receiver looks just like a Webley & Scott 700; even the scroll engraving. On both sides of the receiver is a scroll that says, "Manton & Co". On one of the barrels it says, "Manton & Co London & Calcutta 25-35 WCF". On the other barrel it says, "Made Especially by Webley & Scott, LTD". I was wrong about the numbers with the proof marks, they are 22 and not 32. There are several proof marks. One is a crown over a V. One is a crown over a circle with an r shape through it. One is a funny hat looking thing with NP under it. There are also some wierd scrolly (proof?) marks that I cannot make out. The barrels lool like they are in the original caliber. They absoultely are not shotgun barrel inserts or sleeves.

gordo b. · January 7, 2005, 10:13 PM

25-35 is mild and a very cool caliber in my opinion. I Ranch Formaned with a 94 Win 25-35 for 3 years and never felt undergunned in central calif. I would love that double, you could E-mail Ross Siefried at 'rifle' a wolfe publication- he loves those things!

December 26, 2004, 09:23 PM	#1
.45-70 Rifleman Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Posts: 8	Manton & Co.by Webley & Scott I need information on a SxS double rifle marked Manton & Co. and made for, or by, Webley & Scott. It is a hammerless boxlock with simple scroll engraving but nothing ornate. The caliber is marked 25-35. The reciever has what I believe are London proof marks - a crown over a V. I have looked in all the resources I have available and I find no association between Manton & Co. and Webley & Scott. Niether can I find any information on a small bore double rifle by Webley & Scott or by Manton & Co for that matter. I am assuming it was made for the USA market because it is marked 25-35 rather than 6.5x52R. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

December 27, 2004, 09:13 PM	#6
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	manton & Co by Webley & Scott Manton as you know is a well known UK manufacturer- as is Webley & Scott. A number of larger manufacturers like Webley used to market other peoples guns under their name but I have never seen the two names together. Interesting piece. Is it a shooter?

December 26, 2004, 10:39 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I don't know much but about 10 years ago I saw ads for two or more Manton branded double rifles in .32-40 over a short time. There were three ads placed in Gun List and one in a Cherry's brochure, but only two of them were out at the same time, so maybe there were four similar rifles coming out of closets, but there might have been only two guns being traded around. At least two, though. There was no mention of W&S. The Cherry's brochure said they were made in Germany for Manton. It was illustrated and their rifle was as you describe. Crown (V) is the London view mark. There ought to be more proof marks than that.

December 26, 2004, 11:56 PM	#3
.45-70 Rifleman Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Posts: 8	The actions look very much like the 700 series Webley & Scott actions but I am wondering if they are just knock-offs.

December 27, 2004, 09:20 AM	#5
.45-70 Rifleman Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Posts: 8	Thank you, Harley. I had already looked through the forum before posting. All that I learned was that Mr. Manton had died before this gun was manufactured (the .25-35 didn't appear until 1895) and that the Manton name was subsequently used on some low end doubles. I was looking for more though. 1. Did Webley & Scott offer a SxS hamerless boxlock double rifle in a model marked Manton & Co on the sides of the reciever? 2. Did this start as a SxS shotgun that was later modified with rifle barrels? 3. Upon further examination of the proof marks it appears that some marks were struck out. Does this mean it was reproofed? 4. It says "NITROPROVED" and I see the number 32 three times. Could that be 3.2 and would that make it safe for the 38,000psi .25-35 ammunition? The barrels are not laminated or damascus and the bores are very good.

December 28, 2004, 09:57 AM	#7
.45-70 Rifleman Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Posts: 8	I have yet to take it to the range. I want to be sure it is safe for factory ammo.

December 28, 2004, 10:56 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	There has never been but one standard loading of .25-35, if it was in proof and safe when new, it is safe now. But I am confused. Is it MARKED Webley & Scott? Or just Manton? If the latter, where does the W&S connection come from? What are the rest of the proof marks?

January 7, 2005, 08:58 PM	#9
.45-70 Rifleman Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Posts: 8	The receiver looks just like a Webley & Scott 700; even the scroll engraving. On both sides of the receiver is a scroll that says, "Manton & Co". On one of the barrels it says, "Manton & Co London & Calcutta 25-35 WCF". On the other barrel it says, "Made Especially by Webley & Scott, LTD". I was wrong about the numbers with the proof marks, they are 22 and not 32. There are several proof marks. One is a crown over a V. One is a crown over a circle with an r shape through it. One is a funny hat looking thing with NP under it. There are also some wierd scrolly (proof?) marks that I cannot make out. The barrels lool like they are in the original caliber. They absoultely are not shotgun barrel inserts or sleeves.

January 7, 2005, 10:13 PM	#10
gordo b. Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2002 Location: Peoples republik of Calif. Posts: 961	25-35 is mild and a very cool caliber in my opinion. I Ranch Formaned with a 94 Win 25-35 for 3 years and never felt undergunned in central calif. I would love that double, you could E-mail Ross Siefried at 'rifle' a wolfe publication- he loves those things!