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Old January 4, 2017, 07:00 PM   #1
Wendyj
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30-06 powders

Got dilemma. When I first got this CDL in 30-06 I had a box of 190 grain Nosler long range accubonds. I loaded it up with 59 grains of RL 22 and in 80 degree weather it was shooting sub 1/2 groups at 100 and close to same at 200. Went last week and shot some in 35 degree weather. Bullets are not dropping any but groups are opening up to 1.5 to 2 inches. I've never had much luck with RL 22 and was wondering if anyone could suggest a good powder for 180 to 190 grain bullets. May have been partly the shooter since winds were blowing and me freezing my butt off but I don't think I'd be off that much. Scope and bases are good and tight. Nikon pro staff 7 with 2.5x10 optics. Not high dollar optic but has been on a 45-70 last year and held up ok. There are a lot of powders to choose from in Nosler manual and was wondering if anyone used the imr 4831 or h4831 sc. Had thought about using imr 4350 or 4895 but not so sure how they would work. First 30-06 so not so familiar with loads for it. Necks set back .002 on brass and only once fired.
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Last edited by Wendyj; January 4, 2017 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Wrong forum. Moderated please move to reloading section.
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Old January 4, 2017, 07:59 PM   #2
hooligan1
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My 3006 does nicely with 190 ABLRS and IMR7828.
I never tested any 180 gen bullets, 165's and 168's and 190's.
The 165 and 168' do well with IMR 4350.
I'm currently looking towards IMR 4451 as my go to for this weight bullet in 3006, testing hasn't started due to weather here in KCMO.
Another powder for those heavies I want to try is IMR 7977.
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Old January 4, 2017, 08:26 PM   #3
std7mag
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Wendy,

It really sounds to me like your shivering may have been to blame. While I don't use that heavy of a bullet with the 30-06, I have had no instance of that happening with me with the 7mm Rem Mag and Reloder 22.
Cold weather absolutely..

With the 30-06, I'm using 165/168gr bullets with IMR 4350.

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Old January 4, 2017, 08:30 PM   #4
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I've had good results with IMR-4350 and Sierra 180s (and 220s). I think Re-22 might be a little slow. It works for me in 7 Mag, which is a bit more overbore than the '06. I'd choose Re-19 if I were using Alliant.
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Old January 4, 2017, 08:37 PM   #5
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Or Reloder 17...
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Old January 4, 2017, 09:22 PM   #6
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Hi Wendyj; as Std7mag pointed out, there can be a big difference in the shooter's performance from a nice comfortable day to an uncomfortably cold day, with maybe no fault in the equipment or ammo. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that a different powder would be more stable in performance across a wider temperature spread. Since IMR 4350 is considered one of the better powders for medium to heavy bullets in 30-'06, you maybe should try that powder, or, perhaps better yet, the Hodgdon version, H-4350, being one of their Extreme propellants, which is supposed to be less affected by temperature variability. In any case, practice more in colder weather and change whatever gear, especially clothing, that helps you to do your best.
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Old January 4, 2017, 09:54 PM   #7
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The difference between 80 degrees and 35 degrees will mean about 50-100 fps with most powder. Usually no change in accuracy.

RL 22 wouldn't be my top pick for 30-06. Either H4350 or IMR4350 will get you about 100 fps more speed and better accuracy in my experience. H4350 is very temp resistant. At those temps you'd only lose 15-20 fps.
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Old January 4, 2017, 10:01 PM   #8
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"Back in the day" when the 30-06 was used as the "standard" match rifle, the 2 powders that were most popular were IMR4064 and H4895.

They are still very good.
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Old January 4, 2017, 10:11 PM   #9
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I use RL-15(RX-15 in the manuals) with my 30-06, I'm shooting lighter bullets though, 165g

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Old January 4, 2017, 11:14 PM   #10
Art Eatman
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My '06 loads, through many a decade:

110-grain, 3031. 150-, 165-grain, 4064.

180-grain, H414.

Mostly with Sierra bullets. All loads were sub-MOA. All three of the heavier loads were sub-MOA at both 100 and 500 yards.

An interesting discovery: All were boat-tails; the 165-grain was also HP. On my 500-yard target, the trajectories were very close to the same. The POIs of the groups were within a very few inches of each other.
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Old January 4, 2017, 11:39 PM   #11
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I just went through the same thing. My load for 165 grain bullets was solid during the heat of the summer. I shot the same load once the weather turned cold and it did not perform as well. Using Quick load as a guide I loaded some new winter loads to test. Based on that experiment I require an additional .6 grains to bring the groups back inline. Based on my limited data it appears that my original load is good for approx 20° F spread. After that I will be outside of my node. I am using IMR 4350.

This is not an extensive test with a large data set so I will continue to test through out the winter.
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Old January 4, 2017, 11:48 PM   #12
06shooter
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Hey Wendy, this happened to me , my first loads for my 06 was 165 bt, imr 4350 ,nosler brass , CCi 200 primer and nosler book coal.

From work up to max , many loads were 1/2 to 1"groups in 70 * temps.

I shot these loads again at 30 * temps and they were all over the place.

So I went a new direction, 180 sierra spt, w760 @ 52.5 gr @ 2600 fps , same brass and cci 250 mag primer.

This new load groups the same at 70 and 30 * temps, this is what I hunt with.
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Old January 4, 2017, 11:54 PM   #13
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I'm with jmr40 on this. H-4350 is a very good powder in your 30-06.
With the heavier bullets: 165,168 and 180. Probably the 200's, just haven't gone there yet.
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Old January 5, 2017, 02:07 PM   #14
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Wendyj,

I haven't seen that much of a change in group size in the cold with any powders with my .30-06.

With my CZ 550 .30-06 I have had my best results with IMR 4350. In fact, 24 of my 25 best loads are with IMR 4350. The 23rd best is with Varget.

When I use magnum powders like RL-22 in the cold, I switch to magnum primers to be sure the ignition is consistent. I measured the difference using my chronograph and found it increased velocity by 12 fps and it tightened the groups shot in really cold weather (around 30 degrees) by about 0.3 inches.

I noticed this winter that I was having real trouble getting my shoulder position set when I was wearing my heavy hunting jacket with the extra lining. That caused me some pretty big groups (over 1 MOA but less than 2 MOA) until I took extra care to get my setup consistent. Once I made sure I was set up right, the groups got back to normal. The CZ with IMR4305 averages between 0.567 and 0.645 depending on the bullet used for all the loads with that powder and the different bullets - that's for 210 total groups shot with 44 different loads and 4 different bullets.
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Old January 5, 2017, 03:22 PM   #15
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I've used both IMR 4350 and IMR 4064 with great results with bullet weights from 150 gr. up to 200 gr. I've been using these 2 powders for well over 25 years now, and see no reason to change. I use Barnes bullets almost exclusively because of their performance on Big Game. This year I'm dropping down in bullet weight to 130 grainers. I want to see how fast I can push them, and the fact that Barnes bullets retain almost 100% of their loaded weight makes lighter bullets a good choice.
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Old January 5, 2017, 03:49 PM   #16
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Hard to sort out being cold and affecting shooting and or the powder.

My first go to powder would be R17.

what you want are temperature stable powders (R17 is, not all Aliant powders are, R17 is made in Switzerland and is a one off in the Aliant powder line.

H4831 or 4350 are temperature stable. Those are both good solid go to powders for 30-06.

IMR has some new temp stable powers

I tend to swing, I shoot the Temp stable powders in the winter (its 5 degrees right now and trying to decide If I want to go shoot) and the others in the summer.
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Old January 5, 2017, 05:04 PM   #17
Wendyj
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I've got all those powders and I did try some imr 4451 with some 160 grain but my 10 twist seems to not like anything under 180 grain.
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Old January 5, 2017, 05:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyosmith
"Back in the day" when the 30-06 was used as the "standard" match rifle, the 2 powders that were most popular were IMR4064 and H4895.
It was actually IMR 4895. Back when 30-06 was still a common match cartridge (50's and 60's), Hodgdon was a relatively new business (started in 1952) and his H4895 was rebranded surplus IMR 4895. Government manufactured match ammunition used bulk grade IMR 4895.

The current H4895 is Australian made low temperature sensitivity powder (part of Hodgdon's Extreme line) with a similar burn rate at standard temperatures, though most manuals use a little less H4895 than they do IMR 4895 in .30-06 loads, indicating the H4895 is a little faster. Perhaps it is made to match whatever surplus lot Hodgdon had when they made the switch. I don't know, but if you ask them they might tell you.
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Old January 5, 2017, 06:36 PM   #19
std7mag
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Wendy,

I can't see you having an issue with lighter bullets with a 1:10 twist.
If your using RL22 with the lighter bullets, I could see issues with that.
I would really use a faster burning powder.
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Old January 5, 2017, 06:43 PM   #20
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Kind of depends how good the bullets are, but modern bullets are generally good enough that I'm surprised by that, too. More likely its an issue of the difference in barrel time not being what the gun likes best.
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Old January 5, 2017, 07:10 PM   #21
Wendyj
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So far just 180 bt's and 190 accubonds. A few 150 and 165 nosler ballistic tips. They will stay around 2 inches but the 190 was my best grouper with RL 22 until winter. I loaded up a few lots of 180 ballistic tips with h414 tonight and will load some of each with the imr 4350 and duplicate a few with h4350 to try.
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Old January 6, 2017, 01:17 AM   #22
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I always work up my hunting loads at a temp like hunting season. For me the groups really open up in warm weather and pressures seem higher, but I'm shooting at max loads.
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Old January 6, 2017, 01:57 AM   #23
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Wendy, I have a Rem 700 LR in 30-06 and played around with bullets and powders all summer. I really liked the Hornady 178 gr Eld-x but only had one box and none to be found so I couldn't go any further at the time. I went to the 200 gr. Eld-x because I could get them. Usually I like H4831sc, have used it for years but that 700 didn't seem to get under an inch with it. I went to Imr 4350 and it loves it. 1/2 in at 100 + and very reliable. That was the best I could come up with and shot a bison with that load this past fall. Pole axe shot behind the ear. Found the bullet, lost .5 gr.
I finally got a stock of the 178's now and will work up a load for those, most likely see if I can get the new Imr 4451 all temp powder to work. If not, I'll try the H4831sc or the 4350.

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Old January 6, 2017, 02:16 PM   #24
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Wendy,
You have more than enough good information in this thread already but I want to tell you that in my 3006 (a very old 03A3) I have gotten sub MOA groups with bullet weights from 125 through 190 grains using just two powders and adjusting the charge weight. I don't try to set the bullets close to the lands, it would be impossible in this old gun, I use the listed length in the book for the overall length. The two powders that have worked for me, in my gun, are H4895 (a totally different powder than IMR4895 and needs different load data) and H414. Hodgdon calls this powder (414) "simply ideal in the 3006" and that has been my experience. With my 24" barrel (military issue 1942) The loads I use are between 95 and 97% of maximum listed loads. No two barrels are the same and your experience will likely differ from mine. I can't shoot 220 grain bullets in my gun because they hit a 100 yard target sideways. The 1:10 twist in my gun will stabilize short bullets down to 125 and up to the 190 grain bullets that I have used. I have found that WW and CCI primers work best in most cases for consistent groups.
I much prefer the 165 grain SpBT bullets and have consistent groups under 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I use my gun for hunting and casual target shooting. Just so you know where I am coming from.
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Old January 6, 2017, 03:22 PM   #25
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Note that "ideal" labeling is for bolt guns. Same as with 4350, H414 is too slow for the Garand gas system. The Western Cannon spherical powder the military had made for .30-06 ball ammo is what is sold to handloaders as H380 (canister grade WC852) and it works in the Garand with 150 grain bullets. When you go to heavier bullets than that, it can run a Garand gas system a bit hard.
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