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Old October 4, 2016, 06:53 PM   #126
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Thats the Wimmersperg Spz-kr. Luckily enough, I came across this guy for the first time a couple weeks ago while doing some reading online. The Germans were developing it at the end of WW2 but didn't get it fielded in time.
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Old October 4, 2016, 07:24 PM   #127
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Man that one went quick,,,,,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimmersperg_Spz

C 5 Wimmersperg Spz-kr bullpup assault rifle
In the autumn of 1944 von Wimmersperg designed two types of simplified assault rifles chambered for the Polte short cartridge a long version and a short version-for which the drawings are held at the BWB/WTS in Koblenz. The captions identify the long version as the Spz-l, and the short version as the Spz-kr. The "Spz" is apparently an abbreviation of the code name Spielzeug (toy). The "1" stands for lange Bauart (long type), while "kr" stands for kurze Bauart mit Regler für Serienjeuer (short type with regulator for sustained fire).
Both the rifle and the compact carbines consist mainly of stamped parts, many recognisable as having been directly or indirectly derived from the Sten MkII MP. Both utilise the standard StG44 magazine and magazine catch, and StG44 barrel blanks. The receiver tubes are original Sten parts with a diameter of 35mm and a wall thickness of 2mm. The rear socket section of the two-piece turning bolt is a modified Sten component, and the operating handle, recoil spring, its housing and end cap assembly, with its method of affixing the butt stock, are standard Sten parts as specified in the relevant parts lists.
The gas port is positioned at the forward end of the barrel about 21cm (8.25") back from the muzzle. The gas piston, located on the right side of the barrel on a 60. diagonal to the vertical, led into a gas chamber inside the barrel jacket. The gas block enclosing the barrel held the gas regulator, configured as a spring-loaded pin by which the vent could be regulated or closed by means of the lever on top of' the gas block. Both short and long types have remov+able barrels, like the MP40. The rear end of the barrel is held by a barrel tube, which fitted into the fore end of the receiver tube and was held in position by the barrel nut. The rear part of the barrel tube served as a locking piece for the two-piece turning bolt, while the gas piston acted on the bolt head through cutouts in the barrel tube.
The Spz-1 and Spz-kr were hammer-fired, while the SPz-kv (kv standing for kurze Bauart mit Vcrshlußzündung; short type with bolt ignition; fig 160) fired from the closed bolt, actuated by the bolt socket. All were capable of single shot and sustained fire. Single-shot fire could be applied by pulling the trigger half way, while pulling the trigger further to the rear produced burst fire.
The firing system housing, some of the trigger components and the butt stock of the long version are very reminiscent of the MKII Sten, and the sights and general layout are conventional. Not so the com+pact carbine, whose action has been truncated into a "bullpup" configuration with a curved metal butt plate affixed directly to the end of the receiver tube (fig 159). A firing mechanism housing is fixed onto the underside of the receiver cylinder, with the trig+ger guard at its forward end and the magazine well following the rear part of the trigger guard, where an inserted StG44 magazine served as the pistol grip.
The sight axis on the carbine was about 50mm above the upper surface of the cylinder, whereon an appropriately located rear sight base of sheet metal was welded, slightly to the left of the longitudinal axis of the receiver. The upper part of the rear sight's side walls were provided at the rear with four vertically spaced rectangular steps, each representing 100m, so that the rear sight leaf could be raised or lowered. presumably by means of a sliding bar, to cover ranges from 100 to 400 metres. A metal dovetail bracket to accept the regular ZF4 scope mount was welded onto the right side of the carbine receiver, so as not to obstruct the rear iron sight. A rectangular front sight base, provided with a hood to protect the front sight blade, was welded onto the plain muzzle end of the barrel. The front sight blade on the Spz-1 version is a standard K98k part.
Two different firing mechanisms were proposed for the Spz-kv carbine, one with a more-or-less conventional hammer as used in the Spz-1 (fig 1581 and the later variant, produced in January, 1945. fitted with a spring-loaded rotating disk-like regulator with delay detents controlling a more forwardly positioned hammer.
No official documents dealing with the von Wimmersperg assault rifle exist, other than the drawings he made and signed himself It is quite possible that he made up these drawings for use by an armsmaking firm, as before the war he had been in negotiation with firms such as Mauser, Simson & Co, Fokker, etc, concerning the actual construction of his early self-loading rifle and machine gun prototypes.
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Old October 4, 2016, 07:29 PM   #128
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What the 26,
You guys are kicking my
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Old October 5, 2016, 01:04 AM   #129
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That big crank on the right side screams "Madsen light machine gun" to me, but the stock is wrong and the ammo box is not something normally associated with a Madsen....

A couple google searches later, it's evidently a Madsen designed to serve as a coax machine gun, the feeding mechanism was built into the ammo box...

So "Madsen coax machine gun" variant is my best guess.

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Old October 5, 2016, 06:23 AM   #130
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I THINK that's a Madsen Model 1924/42.

After Germany invaded Norway, they took the Norwegian arms and issued them for local use (not an uncommon practice, German troops in France were often armed with Bethier and MAS 36 rifles and Hotchkiss machine guns).

One of the most interesting things they did was to redesign the Madsen to adapt it to a belt-fed gun, no small feat because of the very peculiar operation of the Madsen's action.

I have a book somewhere in my collection that describes the rework as beink akin to redesigning an elevator so that two cars could operate in one shaft and pass each other.
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Old October 5, 2016, 06:44 PM   #131
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Good one and yes it is a Madsen
This is one being fired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNV4pWy4EJU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madsen_machine_gun
The Madsen was a light machine gun that Julius A. Rasmussen and Theodor Schoubue designed and proposed for adoption by Captain Vilhelm Herman Oluf Madsen, the Danish Minister of War, and that the Danish Army adopted in 1902. It was the world's first true light machine gun produced in quantity. Consequently, Madsen was able to sell it in 12 different calibres to over 34 different countries worldwide, where it saw extensive combat for over 100 years.[3][4] The Madsen was produced by Compagnie Madsen A/S (later operating as Dansk Rekyl Riffel Syndikat A/S and then Dansk Industri Syndikat A/S).
The design dates to 1880s with the Danish Forsøgsrekylgevær (Self Loading rifle M.1888), meaning "trial recoil rifle", being a precursor design. In 1883 Captain Vilhelm Herman Oluf Madsen (a Danish artillery officer), and Rustmester Rasmussen (a weapons technician at the Danish Arsenal), began working on a recoil-operated self-loading rifle; Madsen developed the idea and Rasmussen fabricated the actual weapons. The rifle used a non-removable stripper clip that used gravity to feed rounds to the action; when the gun was not in use one could fold the clip down to cover the opening. The rifle used the 8×58RD cartridge, first in black-powder and then in a much more powerful smokeless powder version. The design was not successful. An improved design in 1896 gave the rifle an enclosed, but still gravity-fed, magazine. This version saw some 50–60 rifles being produced, but they were only issued to the Danish navy for use by coastal fortifications troops.
Investors formed a company (the Dansk Riffel Syndikat; DRS), in 1898 to commercialise the rifle, and bought the patent rights from Madsen and Rasmussen in exchange for royalties on future production. By this time Madsen had left the project to become Minister of Defence in Denmark. In 1899 Lieutenant Jens Schouboe became the manager for the DRS, and a number of subsequent patents bear his name. Consequently, the Madsen rifle is sometimes referred to as the Schouboe rifle. In 1901 he patented the design for the Madsen machine gun. The original Madsen machine guns used black-powder cartridges that quickly jammed the action. However, once the design was tried with 6.5mm smokeless powder rounds it worked well.
The Madsen has a rather sophisticated and unique operating cycle. The machine gun uses a mixed recoil-operated locking system with a hinged bolt that is patterned after the lever-action Peabody Martini breechblock.[3] The recoil operation is part short and part long recoil. After firing a round, the initial recoil impulse drives the barrel, barrel extension, and bolt to the rear. A pin on the right side of the bolt moves backward in grooves in an operating cam plate mounted to the right side of the receiver. After 12.7 mm (0.5 in) of travel, the bolt is cammed upward, away from the breech (the "short" portion of the recoil system). The barrel and barrel extension continue to move rearward to a point slightly exceeding the combined overall length of the cartridge case and projectile (the long portion of the recoil system, responsible for the weapon's low rate of fire).
After the breech is exposed, an odd lever-type extractor/ejector, mounted under the barrel, pivots to the rear, extracts the empty case, and ejects it through the bottom of the receiver. The bolt's operating cam then forces the bolt face to pivot downward, aligning a cartridge feed groove in the left side of the bolt with the chamber. While the bolt and barrel are returning forward, a cartridge-rammer lever, mounted on the barrel extension, pivots forward, loading a fresh cartridge.
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Old October 5, 2016, 06:47 PM   #132
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What the 28
Next and after last night I have a LOT more coming.
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Old October 6, 2016, 03:31 AM   #133
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Erma EMP-44 prototype submachine gun. Never adopted by the Wehrmacht which already had the MP40 in full production.

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Old October 6, 2016, 05:53 AM   #134
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No, no no... that's an interrupter style toilet flow valve...

That one's a new one on me.
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Old October 6, 2016, 06:01 PM   #135
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Jimro I am sorry but you are WRONG

Mike (staff) in fact had it right.
It is a an interrupter style toilet flow valve...
But it can be used as a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMP_44
ERMA Model 1944
The EMP 44 fires from an open bolt. The caliber is 9×19mm Parabellum. The length of the gun is 892–950 mm depending on stock position. The barrel length is either 250 or 308 mm long. Its rate of fire is 500 rounds per minute and has sliding two 32-round MP 40 magazine wells. The practical range was 150–200 meters.
The gun was crudely assembled with a stock made of pipes welded together. This was part of its design philosophy for the weapon was created in response to the requirements of the Primitiv-Waffen-Programm, more or less in an attempt to imitate the British Sten gun and to a lesser extent the PPSh-41. Ultimately, its crude looking design was what made it to be rejected by the German army.
The gun was probably designed in 1942, with the sole exemplar known having serial number 15, and having February 1943 as its manufacture date. One theory as to fate of the prototypes is that most were cannibalized for their dual feed mechanism which was then installed on MP40/I.

History
The wide use of submachine guns by the German armed forces in the Second World War led to a strong dependence on the industrial capacity of arms factories that brought out simplified designs at lower production costs. In 1944, Erma, the main MP 40 producer submitted the EMP 44. The receiver was produced out of welded steel tubing like the Sten. The flash suppressor was formed in the same manner as the Russian machine pistol PPS-43 muzzle brake from stamped steel. The EMP 44 was rejected due to its failure to pass acceptance tests, but mainly because new weapons like the MP 44/STG 44 were already produced with the goal to replace both the MP 40 and the Karabiner 98k.
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Old October 6, 2016, 06:03 PM   #136
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Next installment of,,,,, What the
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Old October 7, 2016, 10:23 AM   #137
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Hum...

I want to say another German Volks weapon, but it looks too finished...

So, I'm going to say... one of the competitors, or perhaps even an early version, of the MP43/Stg 44?

Then again.... that rear sight looks a lot like the Thompson M2 sight, and unlike anything the Germans used...

Huh....

I'm stumped.
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Old October 7, 2016, 01:49 PM   #138
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The grip section screams Colt to me, doesn't look like anything the Germans designed.
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Old October 7, 2016, 02:06 PM   #139
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Mag well is too short for a rifle round. Some type of .30 Carbine?
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Old October 7, 2016, 02:33 PM   #140
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It's the Hyde carbine. They used .30 carbine, an MG42 style removable barrel, and the Thompson style receiver and selectors. I think only a couple exist in the world. No one wanted an SMG as heavy as it was. The all steel heavy Thompson style receiver was heavy enough, the removable barrel just added weight.

If only it was designed like the M3 Grease Gun, but in .30 carbine. I think it would've been a bit more successful being lighter, in a more potent caliber than .45.
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Old October 7, 2016, 05:25 PM   #141
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DubC-Hicks got it. Great call.

#29 M1944 Hyde Carbine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1944_Hyde_Carbine
Hyde quick change barrel carbine #29
The M1944 Hyde Carbine was an attempt by George Hyde to manufacture a light rifle for the US Armed Forces. The overall weapon was based on the Thompson Submachine Gun which Hyde himself designed many of his weapons on.
Although an original .30 Carbine calibre platform was based on the M1921/27 variants, It worked well but due to the war effort was found expensive for mass production and its weight defied the concept of a Light Rifle.[1]
The M1944 Hyde Carbine came with a quick barrel change device similar to the MG42[2] and pressed steel components to ease production/reduce weight. The M1944 Hyde Carbine was more reliable and accurate than the M1 Carbine that was adopted and also came with the capability of select fire, which made it close to the likes of the StG-44.
While an obvious copy of the MG42 (which then had only been produced for two years), it was dubious why a quick-change barrel was necessary on a submachine gun. The bolt has the rat-tail, similar to a Solothurn MP-34, where the spring is contained within the buttstock. This is an interesting example of "making a gun out of sheetmetal" rather than "making a sheet metal gun". The Hyde gun may have been a mystery to some, but certainly not to readers of the first edition of The World’s Assault Rifles by Daniel Musgrave and Thomas B. Nelson, published in 1967 with the photos seen there.
George Hyde is not a well recognized name, but was very active and involved in the American war effort. He was designing submachine guns as far back to 1933, and one of his guns (the Bendix-Hyde carbine) was entered in the Light Rifle trials which would eventually lead to the M1 Carbine. He also had a hand in the development of the Liberator pistol, designed the M2 submachine gun that was briefly adopted as a substitute standard, and designed (in cooperation with Inland’s Frederick W. Sampson) the M3 Grease Gun that replaced the Thompson in US military service.
Unfortunately, no known examples of the M1944 Hyde Carbine remain in existence. Immediately preceding U.S. entry into WWII, George Hyde also developed a series of .45 caliber submachineguns that superficially resembled a Thompson, initially with a finned barrel. He died about 1964. He is best remembered for his work on the M3 Grease Gun, and he is credited as the inventor of the system in which the bolt does not need to closely fit the stamped-metal receiver, but instead is guided by the recoil spring guide rods. This was later adapted to many other guns, notably the AR-18 and the Ultimax 100.
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Old October 7, 2016, 05:28 PM   #142
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Back to newer STUFFF
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Old October 7, 2016, 11:44 PM   #143
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Tanfoglio Baby Eagle/EAA Jericho?
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Old October 8, 2016, 08:05 AM   #144
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Tanfoglio/EAA Witness in "wonder finish".
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Old October 8, 2016, 08:08 AM   #145
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Tanfoglio/EAA Witness and this gun appear to be the same but its not a Witness.
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Old October 8, 2016, 10:32 AM   #146
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That's a CZ-75 stainless frame...but the slide is too short for a normal service pistol, right length for a compact though.

The slide has the wrong side geometry for a CZ-75 stainless compact though, as they've been rounded instead of flat where the roll stamp would go.

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Old October 8, 2016, 12:03 PM   #147
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ALFA Defender

http://www.alfa-proj.cz/en/products/...mbat-defender/



#31 The ALFA Defender is a Czech-made semi-automatic pistol created for military, law enforcement, and sport shooting purposes. There are two different series of pistols made by ALFA, the Combat series and Defender Series.
Top Gun " ALFA Defender " The ALFA Defender is a Czech-made semi-automatic pistol that was created for the military, law enforcement shooting purposes, and Sport. There are two different series of Pistols made by ALFA, Combat series and Defender Series. Proved the concept of self-loading service and defense pistol in modern design with frame polymeric materials. Breech locks in vertical movement of the barrel and drive cycle is controlled with short recoil action of the assembly blows back. This pistol uses Browning-type breech locking system distinguished by its simplicity, reliability and dirt-resistance.
Trigger mechanism and the striker is designed with a minimum number of parts to allow also field disassembly for cleaning emergencies. It works in both single-mode and double-action that comes with a manual safety lock rapid response. Arm is equipped with a striker lock designed to allow bring permanent cartridge loaded in the cartridge chamber has a pistol is always ready-to-use. Low weight, high magazine capacity and simple handling are attractive for demanding shooters. Permits high precision using a pistol to shoot sports center fire discipline. Three boring effective and two size versions offer a choice for police and sport shooters.
The barrel is operated using a Browning cam system, and lockable sliding by single lug via large ejection port. The frame is made from high impact-resistant polymer. Double action trigger system with exposed hammer has internal firing pin, and user security, mounted on the left side of the frame. Safety Manual can lock the hammer either in cocked or uncocked position. A version of the CZ-TTL similar to the basic CZ-TT but features an integral accessory rail on the frame, under the barrel. Sight fixed standard, with a slide integral front and rear sight are dovetailed into the slide
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Old October 8, 2016, 12:05 PM   #148
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This one might be very ease for some.
What are they part of?
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Old October 8, 2016, 06:56 PM   #149
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11 views and no guesses.
Ok a hint,,,
WW 1
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Old October 8, 2016, 07:45 PM   #150
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Have to be Pedersen device magazines then.
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