Beretta 70-71: Cool?

[Model12Win]

Guys I've been looking for a point two-two (.22) caliber semi-automatic pistol for some time now. I've done some reading and apparently the Beretta 70/71 was used by Israel as a special service weapon for a while. Plus I think it's sexy as hell, and looks fun to shoot. It has a neat style to it, and has features I like. Before I hunt one out, I'm wondering how they are for shooting? I plan to use it for plinking and informal paper target shooting.

Are Beretta Model 70/71 .22s:

1. Fun?
2. Reliable?
3. Do they break alot?
4. If it does break, how are parts availability?

Please let me know if they're good guns. Thanks!

[PSP]

The Beretta is a nice pistol, sleek, solid and reliable. Having some connection to Mossad is a poor reason to own one IMHO, like wanting a PPK because of 007. The gun has been out of production for a long while and parts may be a problem. Original mags are quite hard to find though Triple-K makes one.

If you simply want a reliable, fun .22 then there are a bunch of current production models that will give good service and probably at a lower price. For example the Ruger SR22, any Buckmark, Ruger Mk series, Walther Arms, to name a few.

If you want a fine pistol to collect and enjoy shooting sometimes them, a 948, model 70 or 71 is a good choice, just not as everyday user friendly. No doubt the .22lr is a fun gun. I enjoy them very much too but there are many to choose from.

[g.willikers]

Sexy, fun, neat, cool??
Are we talking about shootin' irons?
How old are you?

Ok, seriously, as PSP sez, it's pretty hard to find a bad .22.
It's the oldest caliber around.
I don't remember ever having a bad one, ever.
Just close your eyes and pick one.
It's hard to beat a Ruger, though.
Lots of after market stuff and support, and they just shoot probably forever.
But one from any major manufacturer will suffice.
Enjoy what ever you choose.
Everyone should have a .22 and lots of them.

[Jim Watson]

I almost bought one of those alleged Mossad guns with the fako silencer (which I would have promptly removed) but I got to thinking about the teeny sights and scarce magazines, so I didn't. I would still like to have a smaller-than-target pistol .22 but if I do, it will be one of the current production plinkers.

[g.willikers]

Almost forgot.
If you want the most cool looking rimfire pistol, check out the Wolverine by Olympic Arms.
http://www.olyarms.com/shop/pistols/...s-whitney.html

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

I almost bought one of those alleged Mossad guns with the fako silencer (which I would have promptly removed)...

FWIW, having handled one of the Century Int'l faux-silencer guns at a LGS several years ago...

• The can appears to have been attached to the barrel by spot-welding through holes in the can near the muzzle, then grinding the welds flat and cold-bluing over them. In order to remove the can, the welds would have to be very precisely drilled out, which is within the skill set of virtually any decent gunsmith, but beyond that of many home workshops. That said, it's gonna leave a mark either way.
• The can renders the stock sights useless.
• The can makes the pistol impossible to properly field-strip because the slide is supposed to be removed forwards, which obviously can't be done with a fat metal tube welded to the muzzle.
• The gun's finish was not in great condition, perhaps 80%.
• There was a big and ugly import stamp on the slide.

Paying $275± for an ugly gun that I'd have to take to a 'smith before it would really be usable (and disassemble-able?) didn't appeal to me and still doesn't.

Back to the OP's question, I used to hang around with someone who loved 70 Series Berettas and had absolutely nothing but good things to say about them, but for various obscure reasons, I never got around to making a range trip with him to try one out.

My advice is basically in line with the previous posters here: Buy one because you like nifty vintage pistols, NOT because you merely want a cheap plinker. The value of 70 Series Berettas in calibers other than .380 has gone up significantly over the last 7-8 years, so you're unlikely to find a really good deal on a decent-looking one unless the seller doesn't know what he or she has, although this DOES happen from time to time since these pistols are somewhat obscure. I'll add this footnote: IF you manage to find a nice one for under $250 from such a seller, you can probably sell it on GB for at least what you paid for it, so you could potentially "test drive" one on that basis.

FWIW Beretta has also offered a variety of .22LR 70 Series models other than the 70 and 71, including the out-of-sequence 101; however, the model lineup is so convoluted that I'd rather let the Beretta Forum FAQ do the esplainin'.

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=95801

[Jim Watson]

All factors to me.
I could have gotten one for wholesale and FLG works cheap on small novelty jobs.

There are pictures on removing the muzzle appliance. Apparently one could find the weld, grind it off to reveal a set screw, remove set screw, and remove thingy. Leaving behind a threaded adapter on the muzzle. A number of buyers were using that to mount a real silencer. Sights do not seem important to that crowd. I would have had it cut off and the muzzle crowned.

[Model12Win]

Thanks, all. I'd never buy one with the stupid fake suppressor. Who thought it was a good idea to add those in the first place??

[DaleA]

I'd never buy one with the stupid fake suppressor. Who thought it was a good idea to add those in the first place??

Probably somebody who thought it would make the gun look

sexy as hell

[Model12Win]

HA! Well I'll seek one without it.

Those Berettas just looks so cool. My dad has a Beretta 950 in .22 short. It's pretty nifty, but isn't really good for shooting.

Will a 71 be useful for shooting? I do not want an ugly Ruger or Buckmark pistol. Sorry, the new ones just look stupid with their gold trigger and whatnot.

[John C]

The fake suppressors are needed for import into the US. The gun control act of 1968 banned importation of specifically these types of "Saturday Night Specials". In order to import these guns, they have to meet a "point total" that includes a longer barrel.

I'm also interested in these guns, though I just bought a model 100, which is a .32 ACP version of this gun, with adjustable sights, a 6 inch barrel, and faux "target" grips to qualify it for import after the regular guns were banned in 1968. I specifically wanted the "target" version, but may pick up other versions if I like it.

I agree with the others that a more model pistol would be a better choice for shooting. These pistols are a great size, and have long barrels considering. I've heard they're accurate, as well. I'm going to test that out.

[Bill DeShivs]

The Berettas are actually very fine guns- especially if you can undo the atrocious fake suppressor modifications.
There isn't much to break on them, and the parts that could break are easily made by any competent gunsmith- if the parts can't be found.

BTW- the little 950 Minx in .22 short is an extremely accurate gun- even if it is difficult to shoot.

[tallball]

Small world! I have a model 100 too. It is a good shooter. I would think that a 22 version with smaller sights and a shorter sight radius would be limited by... wait for it... the smaller sights and shorter sight radius.

[Model12Win]

Saturday night special?

First time I've heard a Beretta termed as such...

[JN01]

They are great looking guns, nice shooters. The biggest problem is finding spare magazines that function right- some of the aftermarket ones are kind of iffy, and OM magazines are very expensive.

[DaleA]

I'm with you on Beretta quality. Even before the Army adopted it I wanted a Beretta 9mm (still do). It's on the bucket list.

I shouldn't put words in the guys mouth but I think he was taking a poke at the silly gun laws that would ever classify a Beretta in any way shape or form as a Saturday Night Special, but I should really let the guy clarify his own post if he wants to.

[jonnyc]

The Beretta 71s are the best general purpose .22s you can own; fun, accurate, reliable. I have 5 of them and love every one. I haven't had any trouble with Triple-K mags, and if you hunt a bit you can also find originals (both come in 8 and 10 rounds). Spare parts are near impossible to find, but you won't need any. I actually bought a parts kit (everything but the frame) but have yet to use a single bit........other than the mag and barrel.
The whole Mossad connection is only partially true. El Al air marshals used them, and they were also issue/duty pistols for lots of Israeli government personnel, including traffic cops, teachers, ministry security guards, and lots of other positions. Any that were used by Mossad were pistols they sourced from El Al or embassy workers.

[great scot]

Reliable, and accurate for a compact gun. As far as Mossad, I thought the Berettas were used in response to Munich. The Mossad used a reduced charge round so silencers weren't necessary. And, in the event that an agent was discovered, he could claim the .22 was just a target pistol.

Also, I read an article where the author said that 70s were issued to Israeli intelligence officers because even with limited training, a 70 could be used effectively.

[Model12Win]

VERY NOICE guys. I might have to seek one. Sorry if I sound like an ass but there aren't many new .22s that appeal to me. I'm specifically looking for one that is relatively small and light but still shootable. Not looking for a big gun like a Ruger or Browning.

[John C]

DaleA: Thanks for sticking up for me. Yes, I used "Saturday Night Special" in quotes, because that's the name the politicians were using to ban cheap imported firearms. We usually think of these are RG or similarly garbage firearms, but Beretta was just as affected by the ban as other makers.

[jonnyc]

"As far as Mossad, I thought the Berettas were used in response to Munich. The Mossad used a reduced charge round so silencers weren't necessary. And, in the event that an agent was discovered, he could claim the .22 was just a target pistol."

While Berettas were sometimes used Post-Munich, they were in Israeli service before that. As I said, these pistols were in wide use throughout the Israeli government, and would have been available to Mossad agents in Europe via El Al or an Israeli embassy. And silencers were used when required. The whole "reduced charge round" thing is pretty bogus, and acknowledged as such in Israeli circles. And if one were caught with a weapon at/near the scene of a murder, or in some other illegal situation, would it really matter whether it was defense weapon or a "target pistol"???

[JN01]

Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim on two separate occasions went up against AK-47 armed terrorists with his little Beretta. Said Mordechai: "Even though the Beretta has relatively small bullets, it can be rather accurate and kill even from a distance of 50 meters [160 feet]."

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/news...e.php?id=28067
http://www.tactical-life.com/firearm...lsr-beretta-70

[Metric]

VERY NOICE guys. I might have to seek one. Sorry if I sound like an ass but there aren't many new .22s that appeal to me. I'm specifically looking for one that is relatively small and light but still shootable. Not looking for a big gun like a Ruger or Browning.

This is an excellent reason to seek one out, in my opinion -- the same reason I did. I just recently became a major fan of this gun, due to the CAI imports. Previously, I've been unsatisfied with the "full frame" .22's -- they just aren't very size efficient for the caliber.

The other problem is that current-production mid-sized .22's tend to have "extremely" service-grade, DA/SA triggers. The Beretta 71 is just a different animal -- shootability is very high and it can perform genuine, accuracy-requiring work.

Sights and sight radius are small, but designed well enough to be effective.

This picture illustrates the problem with the "full frame" .22's:


By comparison:

[Model12Win]

YES, they are not efficient. The word "chunkly" comes to mind.

I want one of these svelte, historic Beretta .22s. No doubt, I'm buying one soon.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Metric

Sights and sight radius are small...

Sight radius isn't too bad if you get one of the longer-barreled models, or even better, one of the 71/72/74A two-barrel sets.

The 74 was also sold in a two-barrel version, but the goofy forward front sight location gives it a ludicrously short sight radius with the 3.5" barrel installed.

Couple of other points of discussion...

The 70 Series pistols were originally sold with a left-for-safe, right-for-fire crossbolt safety at the upper rear of the grip, but Beretta changed over to a more conventional down-for-fire frame-mounted lever safety in 1969. Most shooters prefer the lever-safety pistols but several of the nifty early models only came with the crossbolt.

All use a magazine release button on the lower LH side of the grip frame.

There are two lengths of magazine: an 8rd short-bodied magazine, and a longer 9 or 10rd magazine (the 10rd is more commonplace). The "short grip" pistols (70S/71/72/75) accept both types, although the long ones will protrude. OTOH the "long grip" pistols (70T/73/74/76/101/102) will usually only accept the short magazines if the base plate is modified.