New to Black Powder and have a few questions.

Bpcurious · October 4, 2014, 07:24 PM

Hello

I looked through this forum a bit and found a lot of useful information. Thank you all!

I own several firearms already, but like a bolt of lightning out of the sky I suddenly have an inexplicable desire to own a black powder revolver! The problem is I know nothing about such things

So my question is: What company(s) makes high quality replicas that won't break the bank and would be good for a beginner?

Any other advice on black powder firearms in general or good sources of information are appreciated! I'm starting at square one here, very limited knowledge of BP firearms.

Thank you

maillemaker · October 4, 2014, 08:38 PM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207028

campingnights · October 5, 2014, 09:52 AM

Many years ago I picked up alot of black powder info from the Dixie Gunworks catalog also The Black Powder Bible was good. Enjoy.

Fingers McGee · October 5, 2014, 11:19 AM

There are stickieson most of the BP forum sites that will answer your questions. The " So you want a cap and ball revolver? " thread at the top of this page is a good start. Blackpowder for Dummies by George Baylor (http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html) is another source for the beginner. You can also find threads on CasCity and The High Road forums.

swathdiver · October 5, 2014, 04:00 PM

Try out any of the Pietta or Uberti offerings. In general they are of excellent quality and reliability but there's always a lemon here and there from both of them. Stick with the pocket or holster sized revolvers before playing with the horse pistols.

Cabela's has a number of them on sale right now. Buy one and then we'll help you get the stuff to go with it so you can make some smoke.

hartcreek · October 5, 2014, 04:46 PM

Since you are a newbie stay away from any BP revolver with a brass frame as they are not as strong. A brass grip frame will make little difference but the brass frames stretch. Go to the C store and pick one out and soon you will succumb to a Uberti Walker and their gentle push in your hand.

swathdiver · October 6, 2014, 02:00 AM

What's wrong with a Pietta Griswold & Gunnison in .36 with a brass frame?

Not going to shoot that one loose with round ball and 24 grains of real BP.

Hawg · October 6, 2014, 04:37 AM

Quote:

What's wrong with a Pietta Griswold & Gunnison in .36 with a brass frame?

Not going to shoot that one loose with round ball and 24 grains of real BP.

What makes it so special? I'd like to have a G&G but I wouldn't go over 15 grains.

maillemaker · October 6, 2014, 11:01 AM

I think it's not so much that the frames stretch so much as the cylinder rams into the frame and peens it, eventually sinking into the frame face.

Steve

Hawg · October 6, 2014, 07:01 PM

Quote:

I think it's not so much that the frames stretch so much as the cylinder rams into the frame and peens it, eventually sinking into the frame face.

That's the biggest thing but the frames do stretch some.

swathdiver · October 7, 2014, 06:53 AM

My 9 year old daughter shoots her G&G with 20 grains regularly and has yet to peen the frame. I've shot it a few times with 24 grain charges with no ill effects but it's hard to get the ball seated proper with that much powder. Chambers are .369.

Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret · October 7, 2014, 02:20 PM

Oh, and the screws on on those Piettas are as soft as stool.

swathdiver · October 7, 2014, 03:33 PM

How does a soft as stool screw pose a problem?

kwhi43 · October 7, 2014, 07:25 PM

Get a Uberti and never look back.

James K · October 7, 2014, 08:39 PM

I have not owned a Pietta but I have handled them and know people who have them. I would recommend a Uberti over a Pietta.

Jim

45 Dragoon · October 8, 2014, 06:17 AM

As you can see, everybody has their individual ideas about what is best! It all comes down to personal preference. One of mine is the preference of Pietta '60s over Ubertis. The reason is that with a gated conversion (kirst konverter), factory ammo will fit while hand loads are needed for the same set up in the Uberti. This doesn't have anything to do with quality, I think Uberti has the edge in that department (meaning less lemons get through insp.). They both make very nice products for the price!! That said, they ALL can be made into unbelievable machines!!

45 Dragoon
www.goonsgunworks.com

Fingers McGee · October 8, 2014, 10:16 AM

I've got C&Bs from just about every maker since the 60s. My main match guns for SASS include 1861 Navy Uberti's, 1860 Army Piettas, and 1861 Navy 2nd Gen Colt's. Right now my 2nd Gen 1861 Navies (worked over by 45Dragoon) are being used more than the others.

For a newcomer, I always recommend that you try as many models and makers that you can. Barrel length, grip shape, weight and balance affect individual shooters differently. Get whatever "feels right" to you. Now days, Pietta and Uberti quality is about equal overall; recognizing that lemons can pop up at any time.

Hardy · October 17, 2014, 07:18 PM

For a beginner which I was not too long ago and now I don't Know as much as I did when I was a beginner. But--the uberties are easy to break down as compared to economical piettas as referring to removing nipples and wedge. They are finished better. When I had my store, folks were eager to buy 3rd gen colts which are basically uberties just polished and hopefully honed and finished better. I could find them on the guns international site and others unfired for just --um maybe sometimes for 400 for a 51 navy w/silver back and trigger guard and pockets were popular that could be bought unfired w/ boxes, diplay and accessories for 550+/- So if you can find these for less than 400 and no more than 600 for just your navies and armies -buy them- but care for them. Make sure the boxes are not cracked/ have manual and hopefully white shipping box. I do not check thes sites anymore but Fingers is right the 2nd gen are good if you can find them. Colt does not make either of these anymore.

Bpcurious · November 19, 2014, 04:06 PM

Thank you all for the advice and links, etc. I have been away on business so that is why I'd did not reply or thank you all sooner.

Now the shopping can begin

rodwhaincamo · November 19, 2014, 05:21 PM

So what are you considering?

Bpcurious · November 19, 2014, 06:09 PM

I was thinking of one of the Uberti "Pocket Revolvers," pending some more research.

Any thoughts?

deerslayer303 · November 19, 2014, 08:15 PM

I've had both Pietta and Uberti. I like them both. And as far as soft screws on a Pietta? well I haven't noticed because I use screwdriver bits that FIT

. IMHO an 1858 Remington is about as simple as it gets for a beginner. And seeing as how Cabelas has them with an extra cylinder for 249 bucks its a no brainer. With a 1858 I load three cylinders off the gun, then swap em out Pale rider style and Make a whole BUNCH OF SMOKE!

Not a thing wrong with an open top, but for me when I was a beginner I chose the Remington FIRST then moved to the open tops. And 1860 Army is about the SWEETEST shooting and POINTING revolver there is.

*******deerslayer runs and ducks for cover as the NAVY guys start throwing things......................................................

rodwhaincamo · November 20, 2014, 10:00 AM

I really like the Uberti Pockets. I prefer the cylinder of the Police, but the barrel assembly of the Navy. But I'd get a Police just because I'd want the 4.5" barrel.

Since hunting doesn't seem to be a use, though small game can certainly be had if you're up to it, it's as good as any I'd think.

Are you intending on using round balls or conicals?

What kind of powder are you leaning towards? 3F is ideal for pistols, especially the smaller ones with shallower chambers, though there are some who use 4F. I'm not sure I'd want to do it, and there are many who will claim it dangerous, though I've read (and have) some research on Civil War paper cartridges and it was found the .44 cal with a conical was loaded with what seemed to be 4F and of Swiss powder's strength. This was a small powder charge though (<20 grns IIRC).

swathdiver · November 21, 2014, 12:22 AM

The Uberti Pocket Colts are excellent guns and lots of fun. However, get Treso or Track of the Wolf cones and cap issues are less likely to ruin your day.

Bpcurious · December 1, 2014, 12:10 AM

So.. Did some research, maybe my google skills are rusty but I'm having some trouble with a question! There are two Uberti pocket pistol styles, one with the loading lever and one without.. So which is better and why?

As a side note, I like to camp and hike and think a BP revolver would make a fun backpack/carry gun. Any reccomendations? Would stainless be a good option?

Thanks

October 4, 2014, 07:24 PM	#1
Bpcurious Member Join Date: October 4, 2014 Posts: 50	New to Black Powder and have a few questions. Hello I looked through this forum a bit and found a lot of useful information. Thank you all! I own several firearms already, but like a bolt of lightning out of the sky I suddenly have an inexplicable desire to own a black powder revolver! The problem is I know nothing about such things So my question is: What company(s) makes high quality replicas that won't break the bank and would be good for a beginner? Any other advice on black powder firearms in general or good sources of information are appreciated! I'm starting at square one here, very limited knowledge of BP firearms. Thank you

October 5, 2014, 09:52 AM	#3
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Many years ago I picked up alot of black powder info from the Dixie Gunworks catalog also The Black Powder Bible was good. Enjoy. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 5, 2014, 11:19 AM	#4
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	There are stickieson most of the BP forum sites that will answer your questions. The " So you want a cap and ball revolver? " thread at the top of this page is a good start. Blackpowder for Dummies by George Baylor (http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html) is another source for the beginner. You can also find threads on CasCity and The High Road forums. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

October 5, 2014, 04:00 PM	#5
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Try out any of the Pietta or Uberti offerings. In general they are of excellent quality and reliability but there's always a lemon here and there from both of them. Stick with the pocket or holster sized revolvers before playing with the horse pistols. Cabela's has a number of them on sale right now. Buy one and then we'll help you get the stuff to go with it so you can make some smoke. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 5, 2014, 04:46 PM	#6
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	No brass frame Since you are a newbie stay away from any BP revolver with a brass frame as they are not as strong. A brass grip frame will make little difference but the brass frames stretch. Go to the C store and pick one out and soon you will succumb to a Uberti Walker and their gentle push in your hand.

October 4, 2014, 08:38 PM	#2
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207028

October 6, 2014, 02:00 AM	#7
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	What's wrong with a Pietta Griswold & Gunnison in .36 with a brass frame? Not going to shoot that one loose with round ball and 24 grains of real BP. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 6, 2014, 11:01 AM	#9
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I think it's not so much that the frames stretch so much as the cylinder rams into the frame and peens it, eventually sinking into the frame face. Steve

October 7, 2014, 06:53 AM	#11
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	My 9 year old daughter shoots her G&G with 20 grains regularly and has yet to peen the frame. I've shot it a few times with 24 grain charges with no ill effects but it's hard to get the ball seated proper with that much powder. Chambers are .369. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 7, 2014, 02:20 PM	#12
Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2012 Location: Oh, Jesus. Posts: 226	Oh, and the screws on on those Piettas are as soft as stool.

October 7, 2014, 03:33 PM	#13
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	How does a soft as stool screw pose a problem? __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 7, 2014, 07:25 PM	#14
kwhi43 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,393	Get a Uberti and never look back.

October 7, 2014, 08:39 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have not owned a Pietta but I have handled them and know people who have them. I would recommend a Uberti over a Pietta. Jim

October 8, 2014, 06:17 AM	#16
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	As you can see, everybody has their individual ideas about what is best! It all comes down to personal preference. One of mine is the preference of Pietta '60s over Ubertis. The reason is that with a gated conversion (kirst konverter), factory ammo will fit while hand loads are needed for the same set up in the Uberti. This doesn't have anything to do with quality, I think Uberti has the edge in that department (meaning less lemons get through insp.). They both make very nice products for the price!! That said, they ALL can be made into unbelievable machines!! 45 Dragoon www.goonsgunworks.com

October 8, 2014, 10:16 AM	#17
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I've got C&Bs from just about every maker since the 60s. My main match guns for SASS include 1861 Navy Uberti's, 1860 Army Piettas, and 1861 Navy 2nd Gen Colt's. Right now my 2nd Gen 1861 Navies (worked over by 45Dragoon) are being used more than the others. For a newcomer, I always recommend that you try as many models and makers that you can. Barrel length, grip shape, weight and balance affect individual shooters differently. Get whatever "feels right" to you. Now days, Pietta and Uberti quality is about equal overall; recognizing that lemons can pop up at any time. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

October 17, 2014, 07:18 PM	#18
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	For a beginner which I was not too long ago and now I don't Know as much as I did when I was a beginner. But--the uberties are easy to break down as compared to economical piettas as referring to removing nipples and wedge. They are finished better. When I had my store, folks were eager to buy 3rd gen colts which are basically uberties just polished and hopefully honed and finished better. I could find them on the guns international site and others unfired for just --um maybe sometimes for 400 for a 51 navy w/silver back and trigger guard and pockets were popular that could be bought unfired w/ boxes, diplay and accessories for 550+/- So if you can find these for less than 400 and no more than 600 for just your navies and armies -buy them- but care for them. Make sure the boxes are not cracked/ have manual and hopefully white shipping box. I do not check thes sites anymore but Fingers is right the 2nd gen are good if you can find them. Colt does not make either of these anymore.

November 19, 2014, 04:06 PM	#19
Bpcurious Member Join Date: October 4, 2014 Posts: 50	Thank you all! Thank you all for the advice and links, etc. I have been away on business so that is why I'd did not reply or thank you all sooner. Now the shopping can begin

November 19, 2014, 05:21 PM	#20
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	So what are you considering?

November 19, 2014, 06:09 PM	#21
Bpcurious Member Join Date: October 4, 2014 Posts: 50	I was thinking of one of the Uberti "Pocket Revolvers," pending some more research. Any thoughts?

November 19, 2014, 08:15 PM	#22
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	I've had both Pietta and Uberti. I like them both. And as far as soft screws on a Pietta? well I haven't noticed because I use screwdriver bits that FIT . IMHO an 1858 Remington is about as simple as it gets for a beginner. And seeing as how Cabelas has them with an extra cylinder for 249 bucks its a no brainer. With a 1858 I load three cylinders off the gun, then swap em out Pale rider style and Make a whole BUNCH OF SMOKE! Not a thing wrong with an open top, but for me when I was a beginner I chose the Remington FIRST then moved to the open tops. And 1860 Army is about the SWEETEST shooting and POINTING revolver there is. *******deerslayer runs and ducks for cover as the NAVY guys start throwing things...................................................... __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

November 20, 2014, 10:00 AM	#23
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	I really like the Uberti Pockets. I prefer the cylinder of the Police, but the barrel assembly of the Navy. But I'd get a Police just because I'd want the 4.5" barrel. Since hunting doesn't seem to be a use, though small game can certainly be had if you're up to it, it's as good as any I'd think. Are you intending on using round balls or conicals? What kind of powder are you leaning towards? 3F is ideal for pistols, especially the smaller ones with shallower chambers, though there are some who use 4F. I'm not sure I'd want to do it, and there are many who will claim it dangerous, though I've read (and have) some research on Civil War paper cartridges and it was found the .44 cal with a conical was loaded with what seemed to be 4F and of Swiss powder's strength. This was a small powder charge though (<20 grns IIRC).

November 21, 2014, 12:22 AM	#24
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	The Uberti Pocket Colts are excellent guns and lots of fun. However, get Treso or Track of the Wolf cones and cap issues are less likely to ruin your day. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

December 1, 2014, 12:10 AM	#25
Bpcurious Member Join Date: October 4, 2014 Posts: 50	So.. Did some research, maybe my google skills are rusty but I'm having some trouble with a question! There are two Uberti pocket pistol styles, one with the loading lever and one without.. So which is better and why? As a side note, I like to camp and hike and think a BP revolver would make a fun backpack/carry gun. Any reccomendations? Would stainless be a good option? Thanks