The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 1, 2013, 11:36 AM   #1
1858 remmy
Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2012
Location: OreGUN!
Posts: 66
80% AR15 question

I was wondering if the 80% ar15s can be finished with a table top drill press?
Thanks
1858 remmy is offline  
Old April 1, 2013, 12:44 PM   #2
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 430
Yes
__________________
Republic Arms and Armaments
07
1-502-231-1118
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old April 1, 2013, 01:20 PM   #3
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
...what is an "80% AR15"?
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
Skadoosh is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 10:24 PM   #4
wyop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2012
Location: Wonderful, Windy Wyoming
Posts: 133
Yes, provided you have a fixture to help you hold the drill in alignment with where you need to remove material or put a hole for trigger group pins. You might need to do some clean-up with a file.
wyop is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 11:02 PM   #5
howlnmad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 29, 2009
Location: Harriman Tn
Posts: 424
Skadoosh,
An 80 % lower is just that. It's a lower that has 80 % of the machining done. You buy it (no FFL needed) and a jig. With a few tools you finish the machining.
howlnmad is offline  
Old April 3, 2013, 10:47 AM   #6
1858 remmy
Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2012
Location: OreGUN!
Posts: 66
Thanks
1858 remmy is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 08:27 AM   #7
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
This is legal? Once finished, who is responsible for registering a serial number?
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
Skadoosh is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 08:32 AM   #8
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Homemade firearms do not (under federal law) require a serial number. ATF suggests it but it is not required.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 08:45 AM   #9
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
And 'homemade' is proven how to inquiring authorities?
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
Skadoosh is offline  
Old April 5, 2013, 04:35 PM   #10
jib
Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2012
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 59
> And 'homemade' is proven how to inquiring authorities?

If you fnish an AR lower on a tabletop drill press it will be obvious. The cuts you will make, while OK functionally, will simply not be as clean as a CNC manufactured part. Also, you can't really get your hands on an unserialized lower. They are tightly controlled during manufacture. I used to work for a full auto weapons manufacturer. Receivers are very tightly controlled and tracked.

The problem with an 80%, is that you will pay more for the tooling and jigs than you will save on the first or maybe the first two receivers you finish.
jib is offline  
Old April 7, 2013, 08:34 AM   #11
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
Quote:
If you fnish an AR lower on a tabletop drill press it will be obvious.
That doesnt seem like enough, in my opinion, to convince the authorities of the legality of the lower. "Fininshing" an 80% lower seems like manufacturing to me. I need to see it in black and white that this is legal to do.
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
Skadoosh is offline  
Old April 7, 2013, 09:16 AM   #12
7n6
Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Location: missouri
Posts: 51
Can you still sell the completed firearm using this method?
7n6 is offline  
Old April 7, 2013, 09:44 AM   #13
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,824
While you can make your own gun using an 80% lower, selling it would require a manufacturers' license from the ATF.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old April 7, 2013, 12:46 PM   #14
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skadoosh View Post
That doesnt seem like enough, in my opinion, to convince the authorities of the legality of the lower. "Fininshing" an 80% lower seems like manufacturing to me. I need to see it in black and white that this is legal to do.
"Seeing" it in black and white is right there in front of you. There's a whole industry built around it. 1911s too. It's perfectly legal. They wouldn't sell them to you if it weren't legal and you wouldn't have people all over openly talking about doing it.

You don't have to "prove it" to anybody that it's homemade either. Guns built by manufacturers for sale all have serial numbers. If you destroyed the serial number it would be obvious. There's no serial number, or you can add your own, which would be wiser.

You can sell it too, you just can't manufacture it for the PURPOSE of selling it, much like handloading ammunition.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; April 7, 2013 at 01:06 PM.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old April 7, 2013, 10:30 PM   #15
wyop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2012
Location: Wonderful, Windy Wyoming
Posts: 133
For those who would doubt that it is legal in black and white, I cite from the BATF FAQ of their "10 most common questions:"

"Firearms may be lawfully made by persons who do not hold a manufacturer’s license under the GCA provided they are not for sale or distribution and the maker is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as set forth in regulations in 27 C.F.R. 478.39. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for the official use of a Federal, State, or local government agency (18 U.S.C. § 922(o),(r); 26 U.S.C. § 5822; 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.39, 479.62, and 479.105)."

Found at:

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/in...top-10-qas.pdf

(question 9)
wyop is offline  
Old April 8, 2013, 07:59 AM   #16
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
Thank you wyop for providing the actual and pertinent authoritative text.
__________________
NRA Life Member
USN Retired
Skadoosh is offline  
Old April 18, 2013, 12:45 PM   #17
R.Ph. 380
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2008
Location: Dallas, TX Area
Posts: 151
Jib said:
Quote:
The problem with an 80%, is that you will pay more for the tooling and jigs than you will save on the first or maybe the first two receivers you finish
I have 6 people want to rent my jig as soon as I finish with my 80%. $50.00 was what they all thought fair. Pays for my Jig twice over.

Bill
__________________
Space for Witty Signature Line for Rent.......cheap

The Bill Of Rights: Void Where Progressives Roam
R.Ph. 380 is offline  
Reply

Tags
ar15

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07628 seconds with 10 queries