Help me out reloaders, Red Dot in rifle??

deadcoyote · June 20, 2009, 10:53 PM

I've been looking into a 300 whisper upper for my AR. This led to me reading a lot about the cartridge development and how it works. This led me down a whole other path of seeing guys duplicating 300 whisper performance with 7.62x39 and heavy bullets propelled by a small charge of pistol powder. Followed a few more links and read several more articles on making subsonic low recoil ammo in 7.62x54r with 220 grain bullets, small amount of reddot, and magnum rifle primers. Any of you handloaders know about this stuff and have any good loads? Should i even mess around with this at all? I've reloaded for years but just plain old 7x57 so i could get a little extra spank out of the rounds and hunt with them.
Any help will be appreciated.

deadcoyote · June 20, 2009, 11:11 PM

I cant seem to find any cast lead bullets in .311/312 for sale anywhere. A little help please.

deadcoyote · June 20, 2009, 11:35 PM

I've already answered all my questions. I found a good place for cast bullets(Buffalo Arms Co) and found several rifle loads with bullseye/red dot. Now that you all think im some squirrel on crystal meth that googles reloading questions constantly and answers his own posts i have one more Q. A lot of the other reloading forums say to use .314-.316 cast bull(bore is .311) in mosin nagant model 91/30's. I will be loading for a model 44, the MN carbine. Should i still use the bullets with the larger diameter and is it accurate that this is SOP when using cast bullets, I've never used them before.

tkcomer · June 21, 2009, 08:08 AM

The thing about old military rifles is, you really need to slug the bore to find out exactly what you have. Here is a web page that shows you how to do it: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm After you know the exact bore diameter, then you can order the correct size bullets. One problem with low power loads in rifles is that most commercial casters make bullets that are too hard, which leads to leading of the barrel. The bullet won't expand when fired and flame cutting happens when the gas leaks past the bullet.

jjohnson · June 21, 2009, 10:23 AM

Right, what he said. I think the common practice for lead (unless it's really very hard alloy) is use cast bullets one thousandth over - you know, .312 cast bullet in a .311 bore. I don't know what using a bullet larger than that could do for you. IF it's still small enough that it'll chamber for you, you might be okay (like Ruger 7.62 x 39 bores being closer to .308 than .311) but I don't see the point in doing it if you had the choice.

Old milsurp is famous for having broad variations in bore diameter. I slug all mine, and half the time get surprised when I do.

Bboomer · June 21, 2009, 11:17 AM

I also agree with the above posts. I would not recommend purchasing lead bullets until you have determined your bore size as previously stated. If you're going to play the guessing game, and not slug your bore or don't have the ability to obtain accurate measurements from slugging, then only buy a few as to not get caught having a bunch bullets that you cannot use.

That said, I don't think it would be too difficult in finding someone here or from other boards to send you a few, just to try.

I assume that you realize that you cannot push lead bullets nearly as fast as jacketed. A lot of people get around this by using a Gas Checked (GC) bullets. Also, if you are into or setup to cast your own, there are GC molds/moulds to be had.

All in all, it would be my guess however, that your M44 will slug out beyond the norm of .001-.002

Oh, and yeah. I also agree with the comment of Hard Alloy cast bullets. Hard is not good.

deadcoyote · June 21, 2009, 11:54 AM

My actual bore per my digital micrometer and bore slug is .3107. I'm going to order standard .311 bullets as the .310 are all pretty light weight. I understand what you're saying about don't push cast bullets too fast, thats the whole point is i'm trying to make some really light loads with some heavy cast bullets and light powder charges.

deadcoyote · June 21, 2009, 01:10 PM

205 grain cast bullet, 13 grains of Red Dot, CCI 250 primer = 1600 fps soft shooting round. So here's my only confusion:

Read multiple reloading sites' FAQ sections regarding cast bullets. They all say: use normal cast bullets for under 1500fps and hard cast bullets for above 1500 fps.

The 205 grain bullets i found are hard cast w/ a gas check. Iam interested in dinkin around with the powder charge a little to see if i could drop the velocity a little bit more and ramp it up a little bit in the opposite direction. Am I ok with these one type of bullets? I feel like a novice here but i really do know what im doing. Just never used cast bullets!

HiBC · June 22, 2009, 10:18 AM

You might look toward Lyman and Lasercast reloading manuals for published data.

You certainly can do this safely and successfully,but I would tecommend reading the post on catastophic failure loading blue dot.

Not to discourage you,go for it! Just some lessons,it is best not to learn the hard way.Good luck.

June 20, 2009, 10:53 PM	#1
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	Help me out reloaders, Red Dot in rifle?? I've been looking into a 300 whisper upper for my AR. This led to me reading a lot about the cartridge development and how it works. This led me down a whole other path of seeing guys duplicating 300 whisper performance with 7.62x39 and heavy bullets propelled by a small charge of pistol powder. Followed a few more links and read several more articles on making subsonic low recoil ammo in 7.62x54r with 220 grain bullets, small amount of reddot, and magnum rifle primers. Any of you handloaders know about this stuff and have any good loads? Should i even mess around with this at all? I've reloaded for years but just plain old 7x57 so i could get a little extra spank out of the rounds and hunt with them. Any help will be appreciated.

June 20, 2009, 11:11 PM	#2
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	While i'm soliciting help... I cant seem to find any cast lead bullets in .311/312 for sale anywhere. A little help please.

June 20, 2009, 11:35 PM	#3
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	All right i know this seems wierd but... I've already answered all my questions. I found a good place for cast bullets(Buffalo Arms Co) and found several rifle loads with bullseye/red dot. Now that you all think im some squirrel on crystal meth that googles reloading questions constantly and answers his own posts i have one more Q. A lot of the other reloading forums say to use .314-.316 cast bull(bore is .311) in mosin nagant model 91/30's. I will be loading for a model 44, the MN carbine. Should i still use the bullets with the larger diameter and is it accurate that this is SOP when using cast bullets, I've never used them before.

June 21, 2009, 10:23 AM	#5
jjohnson Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Posts: 72	Slug your bore Right, what he said. I think the common practice for lead (unless it's really very hard alloy) is use cast bullets one thousandth over - you know, .312 cast bullet in a .311 bore. I don't know what using a bullet larger than that could do for you. IF it's still small enough that it'll chamber for you, you might be okay (like Ruger 7.62 x 39 bores being closer to .308 than .311) but I don't see the point in doing it if you had the choice. Old milsurp is famous for having broad variations in bore diameter. I slug all mine, and half the time get surprised when I do.

June 21, 2009, 11:17 AM	#6
Bboomer Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Posts: 108	I also agree with the above posts. I would not recommend purchasing lead bullets until you have determined your bore size as previously stated. If you're going to play the guessing game, and not slug your bore or don't have the ability to obtain accurate measurements from slugging, then only buy a few as to not get caught having a bunch bullets that you cannot use. That said, I don't think it would be too difficult in finding someone here or from other boards to send you a few, just to try. I assume that you realize that you cannot push lead bullets nearly as fast as jacketed. A lot of people get around this by using a Gas Checked (GC) bullets. Also, if you are into or setup to cast your own, there are GC molds/moulds to be had. All in all, it would be my guess however, that your M44 will slug out beyond the norm of .001-.002 Oh, and yeah. I also agree with the comment of Hard Alloy cast bullets. Hard is not good. __________________ Bboomer

June 21, 2009, 08:08 AM	#4
tkcomer Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Maysville, KY Posts: 200	The thing about old military rifles is, you really need to slug the bore to find out exactly what you have. Here is a web page that shows you how to do it: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm After you know the exact bore diameter, then you can order the correct size bullets. One problem with low power loads in rifles is that most commercial casters make bullets that are too hard, which leads to leading of the barrel. The bullet won't expand when fired and flame cutting happens when the gas leaks past the bullet.

June 21, 2009, 11:54 AM	#7
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	Thanks guys My actual bore per my digital micrometer and bore slug is .3107. I'm going to order standard .311 bullets as the .310 are all pretty light weight. I understand what you're saying about don't push cast bullets too fast, thats the whole point is i'm trying to make some really light loads with some heavy cast bullets and light powder charges.

June 21, 2009, 01:10 PM	#8
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	Here's the actual load, let me know your input... 205 grain cast bullet, 13 grains of Red Dot, CCI 250 primer = 1600 fps soft shooting round. So here's my only confusion: Read multiple reloading sites' FAQ sections regarding cast bullets. They all say: use normal cast bullets for under 1500fps and hard cast bullets for above 1500 fps. The 205 grain bullets i found are hard cast w/ a gas check. Iam interested in dinkin around with the powder charge a little to see if i could drop the velocity a little bit more and ramp it up a little bit in the opposite direction. Am I ok with these one type of bullets? I feel like a novice here but i really do know what im doing. Just never used cast bullets!

June 22, 2009, 10:18 AM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,287	You might look toward Lyman and Lasercast reloading manuals for published data. You certainly can do this safely and successfully,but I would tecommend reading the post on catastophic failure loading blue dot. Not to discourage you,go for it! Just some lessons,it is best not to learn the hard way.Good luck.