Hodgdon CFE 223 powder for the .308 Win.

[androclese]

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, I bought some of this powder, and would like to know if anyone here has used it for the .308, and what load you started with. The Hodg data site gives the min. charge as 49.5 gr for a 155 gr Sierra hpbt bullet, but this seems a bit aggressive, and produced erratic, and wide groups. I would like to begin more in the 42 gr area, but not sure if that is safe. (I use a 42.5 gr charge of H-4895 normally) Any thoughts or suggestions?

[TATER]

WOW! I just looked myself, 49.5 is the Start and 51 Max.. Not a lot of latitude with that powder at all.
Sorry I can't help as I have never used it. I will say that I tend to shy away from powders that are that narrow.

[androclese]

I'm hoping that its okay to use lesser loads of the stuff, by what I saw with my work-ups it might produce decent results in the 44-46 gr area. Charges of that weight are listed for heavier bullets, so should be okay for what I have. Hodg also listed the COAL as 2.775 with the 155 gr bullet, which is .040 longer than I'm used to, but the rifle doesn't seem to mind it.
I'll load up some lighter loads, and try again. I'll post the results here..

[Valornor]

Careful reducing loads below start. I'm not familiar with the powder, but some powders do not like being reduced much at all below starting loads. I believe heavier bullets also run higher pressures which all end up helping powder burn more completely, hotter fire and such. So just because heavier slugs require a little less powder doesn't mean using a lighter slug over the same amount of powder will yield you the same result.

Just out of curiosity what gun are you loading for?

[balyon85]

Looking in hornady's handbook, with a 150-155 bullet, they start cfe223 at 42.4 for 2300fps and work to a max of 49.6 at 2800. Sounds like you're pushing the max.

I was just flipping around looking at different loads, if only I could find data on this powder in the 300 blk.

[androclese]

Valornor: I'm using a Savage model 12 VLP stainless 10" twist.

[androclese]

Balyon85: I had only the Hodg. data site to go by, I do have the Hornady 8th edition book, but it does not give figures for CFE for the .308 win. I have emailed Hodg about this, waiting for a response.

[balyon85]

I have the ninth.

[androclese]

That sounds far more reasonable than 49+ I'll look into it. If any of you guys have other maker's latest manuals, what do they indicate the starting weight of CFE would be for a .308 155 gr bullet?

I did some work ups starting from 42.5 gr CFE 223,going up .5 gr. each step. There was one node at 43.0 gr. and a much better one at 45.0 gr. I will make up some additional work ups from 45.5 to 47.5 to see if another shows itself. I'll post images once I'm done.

[T/C Hunter]

Ive been working on developing a acuracy load for this bullet and powder combo for my .308 T/C Venture. Taking into concideration that theres not a lot of info out there I started low and I'm working my way up. So far I have use 49/49.5 &50.0 grains of CFE223 . I am using Federal 210 primers . I only loaded a few rounds of each to check for pressure issues . Nothing showing so far. Primers look good and so far it looks like my best load will be around 49 to 50 grains. 51.5grains seems to be the Max as posted by Hodgdon .Im thinking that will be more than I'll be pushing for. Hodgdon seems to alway be higher than other Reloading Data charts. I will be working on this load soon and I will post my findings as start getting close : 1/2 " groups or better @ 100 yards. I will use my Crono and share my loads with those interested. Im shotting a Thompson Center Venture. Scope is a Nikon Monarch 4-16 with BDC . Just as a note: Im finding that this powder seems to really cut down on copper build like advertised. Im looking forward in developing loads for this gun as well as my .204 Encore Pro. If any of you have any info to share please feel free . With a new powder like this we can use all the help we can get,

[Metal god]

I can confirm balyon85 post that Honady's 9th has the low charge at 42.4 and the high at 49.6

150gr to 155gr bullets , using 22' barrel , Hornady/Frontier case , Federal 210 Primer

42.4gr = 2300 fps LOW load
43.9gr = 2400 fps
45.3gr = 2500 fps
46.7gr = 2600 fps
48.2gr = 2700 fps
49.6gr = 2800 fps MAX load

[T/C Hunter]

Sweet ; Thanks for that info. I thought the numbers seemed kind of high from the Data that I got from Hodgdon site on line. Very much appreciated. Thanks. Note :I just got a new batch of brass yesterday { Nosler} #50 count. I will start working up some loads this week end and hopefully start testing them next week. Once there all fire formed I'll be able to really fine tune . Hopefully Sierra will start posting some Data on this powder. As far as Nosler brass : for the price I'm not all that satisfied, The primer pockets were all to tight to press Fed 210 primers in. I had to use my primer pocket uniformer on all 50, Thank God I have a RCBS Powered Trim Mate , and they were all 1.995" OAL Not 2.005" . Weight sorted : So So. Next time I'll try Norma or just stick with Winchester.

[Metal god]

If your talking about the 204 Ruger using CFE 223

26" barrel , Hornady case , Remington 7-1/2 Primer

32gr Bullet
28.8gr = 3700fps low load / 31.2gr = 4100fps MAX load . There are five loads going up in .6gr increments

40gr Bullet
27.1gr = 3400fps low load / 29.7gr = 3800fps MAX load . There are five loads going up in .6 to .7gr increments

No data on any other bullet weights

[T/C Hunter]

Thanks For that info on .204 Data. After I fine tune my load for the T/C Venture .308 I will be venturing into developing a new load for my Encore Pro .204 . My .204 already shoots awesome groups but I enjoy tinking with new loads to always try to out do my last development. I guess I better get a hold of a new Hornady 9th addition soon. If any of you guys know of any other Newer Manuals on Reloading with CFE 223 please pass it on. I found that Hodgdons data they post on there Web site is definetly on the high side and I'd rather not use there suggested lows and highs. Thans again Metal God for that info. Greatly appreciated.

[androclese]

I did some additional work with the CFE, and have decided to go with a 47.0 gr. load. Here are pics of 100 yd. targets using some of the recommended Hodgdon loads, and one using the 47 gr. (quarter for perspective.) The Hodg loads all printed widely, and above the center line, and the 47 gr is about at center. All were fired in the same way from the same rifle. I use a bench bag, and sand sock.
The stuff does keep the copper out, the first couple patches are black, then pretty much clean. I'll continue to tinker with this, to see if tighter groups are possible, depends on the weather.

[Metal god]

What were your load increments ? I assume .5 or .6 . Now What I'd do is load some at 46.8 , 47 and 47.2 to confirm your in the zone . When I start fine tuning like that I load so I can shoot 3 groups of each charge . For you that would be 9 rounds of each one of those . That will tell you for sure which one of those is best . Your not going to get lucky 3 time in a row .

[androclese]

Increments were .3 gr. further work is forthcoming, soon as the weather warms a bit. Nodes appeared at 43.0, 45.0, and 47.0 gr. which to me indicates a certain degree of reliability. Although incremental changes of .1 gr + - produced no better results in the lesser nodes, I'll still do some additional work around the 47.0 gr load just to see. No useful node appeared at 49.0 gr. shots placed widely at about a 4" group.

[T/C Hunter]

Looks like your on track. Thats what I do. 3 sets of three. @.3 grain . Using the cronograph helps find the best burn rate. Then I tinker with seating AOL measurements. I can spend months developing a load, Its just one hobby that is like theropy for me. Nothing like 3 round groups in a dime size hole @ 100 yards. with all 3 touching.

[T/C Hunter]

Well still working on my custom loads using CFE223 powder. So far so good. I worked up a few rounds the other day and tested them out today, . So far tested 47.9 / 48.4 / 49.0 / and 49.6 Max . Trying those 4 to start with I found my T/C Venture likes {48.4 } using the # 2190 Sierra match 150grain H.P.B.T . Id did try a few other loads a while back { 49.0 / 49.5 / 50.0 } and even there My groups were best with the {49.0} I did load up 10 rounds for Deer hunting and was sighted in with the 50.0 . Very Hot load ! Good hunting load not so good for 5 shot groups . The {48.6 gain load shoots a great 5 shot group @ 100 yards all in the bulls eye the size of a nickle. I will continue on and post a pic when there all in a dime group @ 100. Once I get that close I will pull out the crono and see what kind of numbers I'm getting. Conclusion about the CFE223; Yea it cuts down on copper build up but wow this stuff is dirty . maybe thats how they cut down on the build up. All and all clean up is easy and no build up after 20 rounds to speak of. Still breaking in the barrel but its looking good.

[obiwannabe]

I did my first bit of testing with CFE223 in 308 today. I haven't seen anyone post results using Hodgdon data, so I will. I loaded 5 rounds each at 49.5gr, 50gr, 50.5gr and 51gr to span the narrow range specified. I'm using the 155gr A-MAX, R-P nickel-plated cases, Fed 210 primers with a COAL of 2.890". The rifle is a Remmy 700, 26" #5-contour barrel. These are 5-shot averages clocked 15ft from the muzzle with a ProChrono Digital. Ambient temp was 63F.

45.5gr = 2930fps (2846 advertised from 24" barrel)
50gr = 2972fps
50.5gr = 3005fps
51gr = 3048fps (2966 advertised)

That's pretty stinkin' hot. I didn't expect the extra 2" of barrel to add almost 100fps. The 51gr loads started flattening their primers and the hottest of the group (3072fps!) had a bit of a sticky bolt lift but nothing crazy. I certainly wouldn't go hotter. The 45.5gr loads shot the best group right at an inch, but the accuracy trailed off from there. The rest were 2.2"-2.5".

I'd have to concur with the Hornady data unless you're just looking for wicked velocity. I'm sure I could find a better accuracy node south of the 45.5gr starting load.