1851 navy brass vs 1860 army steel

Darkyle6 · January 25, 2010, 08:07 PM

So I want to get into shooting black powder revolvers and Cabela's has a couple on sale that I'm interested in. Do I get the brass framed 1851 navy for $120 or do I spend the extra money and get the steel framed 1860 Army for $190

Hawg · January 25, 2010, 08:26 PM

Steel 1860, you'll be glad you did.

Delmar · January 25, 2010, 08:44 PM

One of each!

SigP6Carry · January 25, 2010, 08:51 PM

I'd suggest spending the extra money on the Army. I personally have the brass navy (in .44, which actually an Army, so I guess it's technically going to be called a Brass Framed 1851 Army... maybe?). It was actually a hand me down from my grandfather, so I didn't have much choice, but my next BP is either going to be the 1860 or an 1858.

The steel frame, especially in the open top design, is going to be a more durable gun and hold up to heavier loads longer than the brass frame will. It will also be more historically accurate, as the 1860 was a .44 Army revolver.

I used to prefer to looks of the 1851, but the looks of the 1860 are growing on me. I used to hate the weird "rounded, amorphous look," but now I've grown to appreciate the curves and lines of the 1860 Army.

The grip on the 1860 is slightly different from that of the 1851. I prefer the 1851 grip, myself, and it is actually more similar to what you'll find on an 1873 than the grips on the 1860. I've heard that the Pietta (the Brass Frame 1851 .44) grip isn't accurate, either. So, you might want to take that into account, too.

There's a lot to weigh out, but it really comes down to: what do you want?

mykeal · January 26, 2010, 06:16 AM

If you want a .44, get the 1860 Army.

The 1851 Navy is a great gun, but to fully appreciate it, you need the .36 cal, as it was designed. Sam was a terrible businessman but a genius gun designer.

Beyond that, nobody can possibly predict what gun is best for you; a gun is very much like a woman - only you know what 'floats your boat'.

Jbar4Ranch · January 26, 2010, 09:58 AM

Just depends whether you want a .36 or .44. Brass framed .36's will hold up just fine.

(I refuse to even acknowledge a ".44 cal 1851")

ClemBert · January 26, 2010, 01:09 PM

Brass looks pretty and to have a complete collection of BP firearms you'd want some CSA style brassers but for your first BP firearm go for steel. I think you are going to want to top it off with GOEX from time to time without worrying about stretching the brass of that 1851. JMHO.

shafter · January 26, 2010, 04:43 PM

I wouldn't worry about the brass stretching. BP revolvers are cheap enough to replace if necessary.

Darkyle6 · January 26, 2010, 06:41 PM

thanks for the input guys, I think I'm going to go for the 1860 army

Fingers McGee · January 26, 2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

thanks for the input guys, I think I'm going to go for the 1860 army

You might as well get two while you're at it. Once you try one out, one isn't enough.

FM

SigP6Carry · January 27, 2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

(I refuse to even acknowledge a ".44 cal 1851")

my, aren't we high and mighty....

In anycase, getting a pair isn't necessary, but if you do get a pair: you can start doing CAS all the faster. You'll just be short a rifle and shotgun.

Jbar4Ranch · January 27, 2010, 12:49 PM

I'm into authenticity, and a .44 cal 1851 Navy never existed.

SigP6Carry · January 27, 2010, 12:52 PM

nor did .357 1873s or .38special 1893s, but people find them perfectly acceptable at CAS matches.

Refusing to believe that a gun I own exists because it's not "authentic" to the source material is pretty harsh.

edit: also, I believe Pietta, the company that makes the Brass Framed 1851 .44 calls it something like "1851 Confederacy Navy .44" which doesn't work because a Navy is in .36 and an Army is .44. But... they're the company MAKING THEM so they can call them whatever they want.

Darkyle, make sure to let us know how it shoots and ask us if you have any questions regarding proper use and the likes.

Jbar4Ranch · January 27, 2010, 12:57 PM

Shoot what you like, but your argument cannot possibly convince me to use such guns in a match.

NavyLT · January 27, 2010, 01:01 PM

So, I have a question about authenticity then.... how was the caliber of the .36 Navy or the .44 Army measured originally? I was surprised to learn when I bought my .44 caliber "Navy" Pietta repro that Europe measures caliber from land to land in the barrel so it shoots a .451 to .454 ball. On the American continent, caliber is measured from groove to groove so a .44 caliber would shoot like a .441 to .444 ball?

So, what was the measurement of the original? For those interested in true authenticity, wouldn't that make a difference?

Jbar4Ranch · January 27, 2010, 01:21 PM

If I'm not mistaken, the caliber, .36, was the caliber of the barrel before it was rifled...?

Whatever that would have to do with me ever shooting a ".44 cal 1851 Navy".

SigP6Carry · January 27, 2010, 01:22 PM

(beaten to it!) Actually, I believe the .451-.454 in the .44's is accurate historically and the .36's fire .375-.38 or so and are accurate.

Edit, what NavyLT was asking was:
how accurate are modern reproductions, truly? Are the odd barrel sizes accurate, historically? If not, then you can't really nix any of the guns for firing an incorrect caliber.

I believe he was thinking that the .36 C&B was actually around .357 and the .44 was around .441 instead of the .375 and .454 that they in fact are.

Jbar, here's my issue here: you're essentially telling anyone that owns that certain gun that you don't respect their gun, thereby insinuating that we made a bad choice and that you don't respect those of us that actually own the Pietta in .44. Pretty rude to myself and countless others who own the gun.

Doc Hoy · January 27, 2010, 02:26 PM

Doesn't it bother you when you read of a revolver being referred to as a "gun"?!

(Navy Warrant)

NavyLT · January 27, 2010, 02:32 PM

HAHA! Well, I was on submarines when enlisted.

On BOATS, we didn't have GUNS, we had TORPEDOES!

Doc Hoy · January 27, 2010, 02:41 PM

Chuckle + 1

Hardcase · January 27, 2010, 03:18 PM

It's all good - us surface Navy guys know that you call it a ship when it can carry a boat

(Navy E6)

Oh yeah...get the steel-framed .44. It's a hoot - and although I have never personally seen a brass-framed revolver wear out, the price difference isn't so much that it isn't worth the extra for the steel.

Let's see...isn't...isn't...two negatives equals a positive, so...yeah, I think that's what I mean. I think...

Hawg · January 27, 2010, 07:34 PM

I'm with Jbar on this one.

Fingers McGee · January 27, 2010, 07:42 PM

I trend to agree with Jbar two

. Uh-Oh........... does that mean I have to get rid of my .44 caliber, 5 inch octagonal barreled, navy gripped, engraved Army revolvers

. Mayhaps I should rethink this

FM

Doc Hoy · January 28, 2010, 06:30 AM

What's in a name?

NavyLT · January 28, 2010, 08:36 AM

Several letters and maybe a punctuation mark or two.

January 25, 2010, 08:07 PM	#1
Darkyle6 Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Posts: 8	1851 navy brass vs 1860 army steel So I want to get into shooting black powder revolvers and Cabela's has a couple on sale that I'm interested in. Do I get the brass framed 1851 navy for $120 or do I spend the extra money and get the steel framed 1860 Army for $190

January 25, 2010, 08:51 PM	#4
SigP6Carry Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1,086	I'd suggest spending the extra money on the Army. I personally have the brass navy (in .44, which actually an Army, so I guess it's technically going to be called a Brass Framed 1851 Army... maybe?). It was actually a hand me down from my grandfather, so I didn't have much choice, but my next BP is either going to be the 1860 or an 1858. The steel frame, especially in the open top design, is going to be a more durable gun and hold up to heavier loads longer than the brass frame will. It will also be more historically accurate, as the 1860 was a .44 Army revolver. I used to prefer to looks of the 1851, but the looks of the 1860 are growing on me. I used to hate the weird "rounded, amorphous look," but now I've grown to appreciate the curves and lines of the 1860 Army. The grip on the 1860 is slightly different from that of the 1851. I prefer the 1851 grip, myself, and it is actually more similar to what you'll find on an 1873 than the grips on the 1860. I've heard that the Pietta (the Brass Frame 1851 .44) grip isn't accurate, either. So, you might want to take that into account, too. There's a lot to weigh out, but it really comes down to: what do you want? __________________ -liberal gun nut = exception to the rule- -1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes- -Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-

January 26, 2010, 09:58 AM	#6
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	Just depends whether you want a .36 or .44. Brass framed .36's will hold up just fine. (I refuse to even acknowledge a ".44 cal 1851") __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

January 27, 2010, 12:49 PM	#12
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	I'm into authenticity, and a .44 cal 1851 Navy never existed. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

January 27, 2010, 12:52 PM	#13
SigP6Carry Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1,086	nor did .357 1873s or .38special 1893s, but people find them perfectly acceptable at CAS matches. Refusing to believe that a gun I own exists because it's not "authentic" to the source material is pretty harsh. edit: also, I believe Pietta, the company that makes the Brass Framed 1851 .44 calls it something like "1851 Confederacy Navy .44" which doesn't work because a Navy is in .36 and an Army is .44. But... they're the company MAKING THEM so they can call them whatever they want. Darkyle, make sure to let us know how it shoots and ask us if you have any questions regarding proper use and the likes. __________________ -liberal gun nut = exception to the rule- -1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes- -Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-

January 25, 2010, 08:26 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Steel 1860, you'll be glad you did.

January 25, 2010, 08:44 PM	#3
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	One of each!

January 26, 2010, 06:16 AM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	If you want a .44, get the 1860 Army. The 1851 Navy is a great gun, but to fully appreciate it, you need the .36 cal, as it was designed. Sam was a terrible businessman but a genius gun designer. Beyond that, nobody can possibly predict what gun is best for you; a gun is very much like a woman - only you know what 'floats your boat'.

January 26, 2010, 01:09 PM	#7
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Brass looks pretty and to have a complete collection of BP firearms you'd want some CSA style brassers but for your first BP firearm go for steel. I think you are going to want to top it off with GOEX from time to time without worrying about stretching the brass of that 1851. JMHO.

January 26, 2010, 04:43 PM	#8
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	I wouldn't worry about the brass stretching. BP revolvers are cheap enough to replace if necessary.

January 26, 2010, 06:41 PM	#9
Darkyle6 Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Posts: 8	thanks for the input guys, I think I'm going to go for the 1860 army

January 27, 2010, 12:57 PM	#14
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	Shoot what you like, but your argument cannot possibly convince me to use such guns in a match. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

January 27, 2010, 01:01 PM	#15
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	So, I have a question about authenticity then.... how was the caliber of the .36 Navy or the .44 Army measured originally? I was surprised to learn when I bought my .44 caliber "Navy" Pietta repro that Europe measures caliber from land to land in the barrel so it shoots a .451 to .454 ball. On the American continent, caliber is measured from groove to groove so a .44 caliber would shoot like a .441 to .444 ball? So, what was the measurement of the original? For those interested in true authenticity, wouldn't that make a difference? Last edited by NavyLT; January 27, 2010 at 01:07 PM.

January 27, 2010, 01:21 PM	#16
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	If I'm not mistaken, the caliber, .36, was the caliber of the barrel before it was rifled...? Whatever that would have to do with me ever shooting a ".44 cal 1851 Navy". __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

January 27, 2010, 01:22 PM	#17
SigP6Carry Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1,086	(beaten to it!) Actually, I believe the .451-.454 in the .44's is accurate historically and the .36's fire .375-.38 or so and are accurate. Edit, what NavyLT was asking was: how accurate are modern reproductions, truly? Are the odd barrel sizes accurate, historically? If not, then you can't really nix any of the guns for firing an incorrect caliber. I believe he was thinking that the .36 C&B was actually around .357 and the .44 was around .441 instead of the .375 and .454 that they in fact are. Jbar, here's my issue here: you're essentially telling anyone that owns that certain gun that you don't respect their gun, thereby insinuating that we made a bad choice and that you don't respect those of us that actually own the Pietta in .44. Pretty rude to myself and countless others who own the gun. __________________ -liberal gun nut = exception to the rule- -1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes- -Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?- Last edited by SigP6Carry; January 27, 2010 at 01:27 PM.

January 27, 2010, 02:26 PM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	To NavyLT Doesn't it bother you when you read of a revolver being referred to as a "gun"?! (Navy Warrant) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 27, 2010, 02:32 PM	#19
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	HAHA! Well, I was on submarines when enlisted. On BOATS, we didn't have GUNS, we had TORPEDOES!

January 27, 2010, 02:41 PM	#20
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yup! Chuckle + 1 __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 27, 2010, 03:18 PM	#21
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	It's all good - us surface Navy guys know that you call it a ship when it can carry a boat (Navy E6) Oh yeah...get the steel-framed .44. It's a hoot - and although I have never personally seen a brass-framed revolver wear out, the price difference isn't so much that it isn't worth the extra for the steel. Let's see...isn't...isn't...two negatives equals a positive, so...yeah, I think that's what I mean. I think... __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

January 27, 2010, 07:34 PM	#22
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I'm with Jbar on this one.

January 27, 2010, 07:42 PM	#23
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I trend to agree with Jbar two . Uh-Oh........... does that mean I have to get rid of my .44 caliber, 5 inch octagonal barreled, navy gripped, engraved Army revolvers . Mayhaps I should rethink this FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 28, 2010, 06:30 AM	#24
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Fingers What's in a name? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 28, 2010, 08:36 AM	#25
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	Several letters and maybe a punctuation mark or two.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search