looking for my first cap n ball

Soundtrackzz · August 1, 2009, 01:06 AM

Hey guys. im thinking of trying cap and ball shooting. What is a good first gun? i would like it to be as cheap as possible since i dont know if i will like this. I dont really like the looks of coly open tops so what else is there? Also if anyone has any guns to sell, please PM me.

Thanks

the rifleer · August 1, 2009, 01:20 AM

my first and only BP revolver is a Ruger Old Army that i got lucky with. It was sold as non operational, so it was dirt cheap. A trip to ruger and about 6 weeks later it was as good as new. its a pretty high end BP revolver, but like i said, i got it cheap.

i dont have any experience with any other BP revolver, but i have heard good things about the steel framed 1858 Remingtons. You can get them from cabelas either at the store or online for a little less than $200. that was going to be what i was going to buy, but i got offered the Old Army.

the open top Colts i hear are also good and are less prone to having a cap jam, and if it is steel framed it is plenty strong.

you can get a brass framed one new from cabelas for around $130 when on sale, but it cant handle as powerful a load.

steel frame is the way to go. brass i hear works fine as long as you dont over load it with powder.

if you get one be safe and read the manual carefully. BP is as dangerous as you make it. It can be safe and fun, or dangerous and hazardous. Don't say "a few extra grains wont hurt", because it will.

also clean it properly, as BP and substitutes are corrosive.

Smokin_Gun · August 1, 2009, 01:25 AM

Get yourself an 1858 Remington New Model Army .44cal ... if you want a lowered price go to the Classifieds here, or Gunbroker.com. Auctionarms.com, or GunsAmerica.com for new and used on auction... Try Cabelas for a New Pietta Mfg'd Rev, Taylors, EMF, Midway, Dixie Gun Works...
Remington 1859 NMA three .44's and a .36...

Pietta .44 cal NMA 1858

mykeal · August 1, 2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

i would like it to be as cheap as possible since i dont know if i will like this.

Buying a 'cheap as possible' gun is one way to ensure you won't like it.

The 'cheapest' bp guns are brass framed. They're popular because of the price and they look good at first, with all the shiny brass. However, they require some special care to stay good looking and to not wear out early. For those reasons they are not a good first bp gun.

Any of the following in a steel frame would be a good choice, in NO particular order:

1851 Colt Navy .36 cal
1858 Remington New Army .44 cal
1860 Colt Army .44 cal
1861 Colt Navy .36 cal
Rogers and Spencer .44 cal
1858 Remington New Navy .36 cal
Ruger Old Army .44 cal

The primary manufacturers are Uberti, Pietta and Euroarms; they are offered by several importers, such as Traditions, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works and others.

The Remingtons, Rogers and Spencer and Ruger are all top frame designs, while the Colts are open tops. All of the Colts on the list have the same size grip and frames, but balance and pointing vary. The Remington .36 and .44 will have the same grip and frame if they are Piettas; the Remington Navy by Uberti actually has a slightly smaller grip like the originals. The Rogers and Spencer and Ruger are larger grips than any of the others.

Your decision should be based on how the gun feels and points in your hand. It's a personal decision, so our advice is frankly worth what you pay for it. Go to a dealer such as Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops if you can, as they may have several examples you can hold. Otherwise, seek out a local bp club (the NMLRA web site can help you find one) and ask some of the members for advice.

Quality of the various guns is not going to be a discriminant. Frankly, the odds of getting a lemon are as good with one brand as another. And things like accuracy depend entirely on how the gun fits your hand.

Arquebus · August 1, 2009, 07:38 AM

I have a Pietta '58 remington in .36 caliber & would recommend that as a first C&B. Mine is very accurate & the .36 is a bit cheaper to shoot than a .44 if that would be a consideration.

Dingoboyx · August 1, 2009, 07:48 AM

Go the whole hog, get a stainless Ruger Old Army in 44, you will never look back

I have a pair of SS ROA's, a pair of Pietta 1858's, a Euroarms of America 1858 & a pair of Colt Dragoons (one is unfired/collector piece, the other I shoot)...They are all 44/45's..... I like them all, but I love my ROA's

JMHO

Edit: If you get an 1858, stay away from brass frame if you want to shoot it alot... again, JMO

madcratebuilder · August 1, 2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Go the whole hog, get a stainless Ruger Old Army in 44, you will never look back

I have a pair of SS ROA's, a pair of Pietta 1858's, a Euroarms of America 1858 & a pair of Colt Dragoons (one is unfired/collector piece, the other I shoot)...They are all 44/45's..... I like them all, but I love my ROA's

JMHO

Edit: If you get an 1858, stay away from brass frame if you want to shoot it alot... again, JMO

+1
A ROA well insure a positive experience. The Italian revolvers have a hit or miss quality control. Starting off with a revolver that's not right well turn you off to BP shooting.
Buying a used Italian revolver from an experienced shooter may be an option. There are several members here that have guns for sale at times.

Cabela's sell the Pietta 1858 at about $200, many here have bought them and they seem to be good to go out of the box.

Dave Markowitz · August 1, 2009, 09:19 AM

Mykeal nailed it. One small correction though:

Quote:

All of the Colts on the list have the same size grip and frames...

The 1860 Colt has a longer grip frame than the 1851 and 1861 Navies. If you have large hands the 1860 may be more comfortable.

Fingers McGee · August 1, 2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Mykeal nailed it. One small correction though:

Quote:
All of the Colts on the list have the same size grip and frames...

The 1860 Colt has a longer grip frame than the 1851 and 1861 Navies. If you have large hands the 1860 may be more comfortable.

+1

Find the nearest SASS or NCOWS club, visit a couple matches. Any Frontiersmen/Pistoleers there will be glad to let you try what they use.

FM

robhof · August 1, 2009, 06:01 PM

They cost more, but I would also reccomend the ROA, as they're American made of the same metal that Ruger uses for their Blackhawks. They stopped making them, but there are alot of new ones in store stock and Ruger has a lifetime warranty.

**4V50 Gary** · August 2, 2009, 11:17 AM

I prefer Rugers, but what Mykeal says makes a lot of sense and I defer you to his advice.

sundance44s · August 2, 2009, 12:17 PM

I`d have to say ...first gun ...1858 Remington
Do some post reading here about troubles getting the barrel wedge out of an open top Colt before you buy one .
None will shoot better out of the box than an 1858 Remington , and it is the most simple of revolver designs and the strongest .
The open top Colts do have plenty of sex appeal but can be like a high maintenance whore .

ClemBert · August 2, 2009, 12:26 PM

My vote would also be a stainless steel Ruger Old Army but you are talking about the opposite of a "cheap" gun. The nice thing is that if you decide cap-n-ball isn't for you the Ruger will most likely be worth every penny you paid for it and you will be able to resell it for what you paid. Thus, no money lost.

However, if you just can't swing the money for a ROA I'd suggest a 1858 Remington style revolver. Stay away from brass...at all costs....it just isn't worth it as your first one. Brass revolvers make a pretty wall hanger.

Hawg · August 2, 2009, 12:55 PM

My vote goes to the 58 Remington because it's the simplest to learn on. I don't like the ROA because it's not based on anything historical but that may not make any difference to you.

Doc Hoy · August 3, 2009, 02:41 PM

Soundtrackzz,

Virtually everyone who posted here has more true experience than I do. They are professional or at least very very serious, while I am just casual shooter. And I am convinced you will find more level headed, informed, courteous, and helpful advice here than in any other forum I have read.

I would support everything they said but I would add two things.

1. Once you decide you like black powder shooting, be prepared to want to purchase several different revolvers. BP shooting is cheap to do and lends itself to an abundant tool kit. I just bought my 18th, 19th, and 20th revolvers and I am way behind most of these guys. I like to handle my Colts. I like to clean my Remingtons, I like to shoot my Rugers. But I can't decide which ones I love the best.

Of the shooters who posted, I think only Smokin Gun is a more or less one-model owner/shooter/devotee. (There is a rumor going around that he is somewhat partial to Remington style revolvers.)

2. There was a recommendation, and it was a good one, to visit an event to get to know the sport/lifestyle but I would add the caveat, that you don't HAVE to belong to such a group and don't HAVE to engage the lifestyle in the manner you might find at such an event. I like shooting on my own and club shooting would turn me off. Although I do acknowledge that I would learn ten times faster if I would get involved with a club. I just don't like people. On the plus side, you might find some outstanding deals at such an event.

Tnx,

mykeal · August 3, 2009, 09:21 PM

SG may qualify as a one-model aficionado due to his preference for the Remmy, but I can assure you that he is definitely NOT a one-model owner. He has a very impressive and varied collection.

Noz · August 4, 2009, 08:07 AM

Try one of each before you buy. Remington, 1851 Colt, 1860 Colt. the geometry of each is different. for instance. I shoot Frontiersman in SASS which mandates one handed shooting. The hammer position on the Remington is awkward for me to reach. The 1851 grip is too small and the 1860 fits perfectly.
Your mileage may vary.

Doc Hoy · August 4, 2009, 11:13 AM

Noz,

You bring up a good point which soundtrackzz may want to consider.

What do you intend to do with the pistol? As Noz says this may have an impact on which is right.

For Mykeal,

Come to think of it I recall seeing some photos of SG's tools. Definitely more than just Remington clones in the mix.

Tnx,

Barry

August 1, 2009, 01:06 AM	#1
Soundtrackzz Member Join Date: August 28, 2008 Posts: 26	looking for my first cap n ball Hey guys. im thinking of trying cap and ball shooting. What is a good first gun? i would like it to be as cheap as possible since i dont know if i will like this. I dont really like the looks of coly open tops so what else is there? Also if anyone has any guns to sell, please PM me. Thanks

August 1, 2009, 01:25 AM	#3
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Get yourself an 1858 Remington New Model Army .44cal ... if you want a lowered price go to the Classifieds here, or Gunbroker.com. Auctionarms.com, or GunsAmerica.com for new and used on auction... Try Cabelas for a New Pietta Mfg'd Rev, Taylors, EMF, Midway, Dixie Gun Works... Remington 1859 NMA three .44's and a .36... Pietta .44 cal NMA 1858 __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

August 1, 2009, 07:38 AM	#5
Arquebus Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2008 Location: Inland NW Posts: 116	I have a Pietta '58 remington in .36 caliber & would recommend that as a first C&B. Mine is very accurate & the .36 is a bit cheaper to shoot than a .44 if that would be a consideration. __________________ "For a man, be he ever so much resolved to do his duty as a parent, can't be flogging his children all day....." The Memoirs of Barry Lyndon, Esq. (William Thackeray).

August 1, 2009, 07:48 AM	#6
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	ROA for sure Go the whole hog, get a stainless Ruger Old Army in 44, you will never look back I have a pair of SS ROA's, a pair of Pietta 1858's, a Euroarms of America 1858 & a pair of Colt Dragoons (one is unfired/collector piece, the other I shoot)...They are all 44/45's..... I like them all, but I love my ROA's JMHO Edit: If you get an 1858, stay away from brass frame if you want to shoot it alot... again, JMO __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

August 1, 2009, 06:01 PM	#10
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof They cost more, but I would also reccomend the ROA, as they're American made of the same metal that Ruger uses for their Blackhawks. They stopped making them, but there are alot of new ones in store stock and Ruger has a lifetime warranty.

August 1, 2009, 01:20 AM	#2
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	my first and only BP revolver is a Ruger Old Army that i got lucky with. It was sold as non operational, so it was dirt cheap. A trip to ruger and about 6 weeks later it was as good as new. its a pretty high end BP revolver, but like i said, i got it cheap. i dont have any experience with any other BP revolver, but i have heard good things about the steel framed 1858 Remingtons. You can get them from cabelas either at the store or online for a little less than $200. that was going to be what i was going to buy, but i got offered the Old Army. the open top Colts i hear are also good and are less prone to having a cap jam, and if it is steel framed it is plenty strong. you can get a brass framed one new from cabelas for around $130 when on sale, but it cant handle as powerful a load. steel frame is the way to go. brass i hear works fine as long as you dont over load it with powder. if you get one be safe and read the manual carefully. BP is as dangerous as you make it. It can be safe and fun, or dangerous and hazardous. Don't say "a few extra grains wont hurt", because it will. also clean it properly, as BP and substitutes are corrosive.

August 2, 2009, 11:17 AM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I prefer Rugers, but what Mykeal says makes a lot of sense and I defer you to his advice. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 2, 2009, 12:17 PM	#12
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I`d have to say ...first gun ...1858 Remington Do some post reading here about troubles getting the barrel wedge out of an open top Colt before you buy one . None will shoot better out of the box than an 1858 Remington , and it is the most simple of revolver designs and the strongest . The open top Colts do have plenty of sex appeal but can be like a high maintenance whore .

August 2, 2009, 12:26 PM	#13
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	My vote would also be a stainless steel Ruger Old Army but you are talking about the opposite of a "cheap" gun. The nice thing is that if you decide cap-n-ball isn't for you the Ruger will most likely be worth every penny you paid for it and you will be able to resell it for what you paid. Thus, no money lost. However, if you just can't swing the money for a ROA I'd suggest a 1858 Remington style revolver. Stay away from brass...at all costs....it just isn't worth it as your first one. Brass revolvers make a pretty wall hanger.

August 2, 2009, 12:55 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	My vote goes to the 58 Remington because it's the simplest to learn on. I don't like the ROA because it's not based on anything historical but that may not make any difference to you.

August 3, 2009, 02:41 PM	#15
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yup! Soundtrackzz, Virtually everyone who posted here has more true experience than I do. They are professional or at least very very serious, while I am just casual shooter. And I am convinced you will find more level headed, informed, courteous, and helpful advice here than in any other forum I have read. I would support everything they said but I would add two things. 1. Once you decide you like black powder shooting, be prepared to want to purchase several different revolvers. BP shooting is cheap to do and lends itself to an abundant tool kit. I just bought my 18th, 19th, and 20th revolvers and I am way behind most of these guys. I like to handle my Colts. I like to clean my Remingtons, I like to shoot my Rugers. But I can't decide which ones I love the best. Of the shooters who posted, I think only Smokin Gun is a more or less one-model owner/shooter/devotee. (There is a rumor going around that he is somewhat partial to Remington style revolvers.) 2. There was a recommendation, and it was a good one, to visit an event to get to know the sport/lifestyle but I would add the caveat, that you don't HAVE to belong to such a group and don't HAVE to engage the lifestyle in the manner you might find at such an event. I like shooting on my own and club shooting would turn me off. Although I do acknowledge that I would learn ten times faster if I would get involved with a club. I just don't like people. On the plus side, you might find some outstanding deals at such an event. Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 3, 2009, 09:21 PM	#16
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	SG may qualify as a one-model aficionado due to his preference for the Remmy, but I can assure you that he is definitely NOT a one-model owner. He has a very impressive and varied collection.

August 4, 2009, 08:07 AM	#17
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Try one of each before you buy. Remington, 1851 Colt, 1860 Colt. the geometry of each is different. for instance. I shoot Frontiersman in SASS which mandates one handed shooting. The hammer position on the Remington is awkward for me to reach. The 1851 grip is too small and the 1860 fits perfectly. Your mileage may vary.

August 4, 2009, 11:13 AM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Good point Noz, You bring up a good point which soundtrackzz may want to consider. What do you intend to do with the pistol? As Noz says this may have an impact on which is right. For Mykeal, Come to think of it I recall seeing some photos of SG's tools. Definitely more than just Remington clones in the mix. Tnx, Barry __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.