20MM cartridge...Hmmmm, is this really a tracer???

Big Caliber · March 30, 2014, 01:31 AM

I friend asked me if I wanted this, a 20 mm round. I wasn't sure if I did or not as I did not serve in the military. It has a brass case, and a blue projectile with a silver toned point. The projectile can spin while on the case but does not seem to want to unscrew. The markings on it are as follows: 20MM TP-T, M220, LC-88C225-04, ?006-077 M2218. The "-04" is a guess as it is very faded, as is the digit where I put the question mark. I Googled it up and found that it is supposed to be a tracer round with an "electric" primer, (whatever that means),

used in target practice, perhaps on a Cobra whirlybird. Any comments???

foxytwo · March 30, 2014, 06:11 AM

The blue projectile 20mm round is a dummy round. All 20mm cannon rounds are fired by electric impulse.

Jo6pak · March 30, 2014, 09:16 AM

Sorry to nitpick, but..

"dummy round" may not be the best term, as it implies the cartridge will not fire. If there is powder in the case, it WILL fire.

"Inert projectile" would be a better description. Meaning the bullet is not explosive, incendiary, or armor piercing. It's basically a practice round made of solid material.

JD0x0 · March 30, 2014, 11:38 AM

I believe those types of rounds are often referred to as 'Practice rounds'

**44 AMP** · March 30, 2014, 01:04 PM

Blue projectiles or warheads (on rockets) in US use generally indicate inert (non-explosive) "practice" ammo.

With aircraft missiles, "war shots" are white tipped.

Modern 20mm ammo is fired electrically. There is a primer, but it is not physically struck by a firing pin.

Older 20mm ammo may be either type, depending on which gun is was made for, and the oldest stuff (WWII era) is mechanically fired.

Electrically fired rounds did exist during WWII (the 88mm Tiger tank round was one, while the 88mm AA round used a conventional percussion primer -while the same caliber, they were not interchangeable), but as far as I know, electric priming was not used on rounds as small as 20mm until well after WWII.

**Mike Irwin** · March 30, 2014, 04:00 PM

TP-T means Target Practice - Tracer.

The M220 is the model. It should have a band of Orange "T"s around the projectile.

Is the silver tip paint? Or is it a different piece of the projectile?

How about some pictures?

**Mike Irwin** · March 30, 2014, 04:02 PM

This is the gun that it's used in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M197_electric_cannon

Old 454 · March 30, 2014, 05:16 PM

20 MM pratice rounds for training are intirley blue, including the case. I have one.

I would be suspect if the 20 MM in question has a brass case.

HiBC · April 1, 2014, 04:16 AM

I do not know exactly how the law works,you may not have a problem...

But before I possessed any ammo bigger than 50 BMG I'd be sure to find out if it was classified as a "destructive device".

Sounds silly,but its the sort of thing can make life complicated.

**Mike Irwin** · April 1, 2014, 06:55 AM

"20 MM pratice rounds for training are intirley blue, including the case. I have one."

I have never seen a totally blue 20mm training round.

I've seen many that have standard blue projectiles -- I have two such rounds.

Please post some pix of your round, I'd be interested in seeing it.

"I would be suspect if the 20 MM in question has a brass case."

Brass cased and steel cased intert training rounds are common.

Jo6pak · April 1, 2014, 07:08 PM

Does it look like the this one?
(on the right)

**Mike Irwin** · April 2, 2014, 09:46 AM

"Does it look like the this one?
(on the right)"

*scratches head*

The one on the right is a 5.56 NATO rifle round.

**44 AMP** · April 2, 2014, 12:51 PM

Quote:

The one on the right is a 5.56 NATO rifle round.

Yeah, but it looks like that...only bigger, different color, slightly different proportions... but it looks like that! Yeah!

Armed_Chicagoan · April 2, 2014, 04:30 PM

Look at the picture in a mirror.

Jo6pak · April 2, 2014, 08:00 PM

Ummm, yeah. Brainfart on that one

My other right....oops

March 30, 2014, 01:31 AM	#1
Big Caliber Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: S. CA Posts: 421	20MM cartridge...Hmmmm, is this really a tracer??? I friend asked me if I wanted this, a 20 mm round. I wasn't sure if I did or not as I did not serve in the military. It has a brass case, and a blue projectile with a silver toned point. The projectile can spin while on the case but does not seem to want to unscrew. The markings on it are as follows: 20MM TP-T, M220, LC-88C225-04, ?006-077 M2218. The "-04" is a guess as it is very faded, as is the digit where I put the question mark. I Googled it up and found that it is supposed to be a tracer round with an "electric" primer, (whatever that means), used in target practice, perhaps on a Cobra whirlybird. Any comments???

March 30, 2014, 09:16 AM	#3
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	Sorry to nitpick, but.. "dummy round" may not be the best term, as it implies the cartridge will not fire. If there is powder in the case, it WILL fire. "Inert projectile" would be a better description. Meaning the bullet is not explosive, incendiary, or armor piercing. It's basically a practice round made of solid material. __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.

March 30, 2014, 01:04 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,844	Blue projectiles or warheads (on rockets) in US use generally indicate inert (non-explosive) "practice" ammo. With aircraft missiles, "war shots" are white tipped. Modern 20mm ammo is fired electrically. There is a primer, but it is not physically struck by a firing pin. Older 20mm ammo may be either type, depending on which gun is was made for, and the oldest stuff (WWII era) is mechanically fired. Electrically fired rounds did exist during WWII (the 88mm Tiger tank round was one, while the 88mm AA round used a conventional percussion primer -while the same caliber, they were not interchangeable), but as far as I know, electric priming was not used on rounds as small as 20mm until well after WWII. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 30, 2014, 04:00 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	TP-T means Target Practice - Tracer. The M220 is the model. It should have a band of Orange "T"s around the projectile. Is the silver tip paint? Or is it a different piece of the projectile? How about some pictures? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 30, 2014, 04:02 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	This is the gun that it's used in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M197_electric_cannon __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 30, 2014, 06:11 AM	#2
foxytwo Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2010 Posts: 234	The blue projectile 20mm round is a dummy round. All 20mm cannon rounds are fired by electric impulse.

March 30, 2014, 11:38 AM	#4
JD0x0 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 1,037	I believe those types of rounds are often referred to as 'Practice rounds'

March 30, 2014, 05:16 PM	#8
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	20 MM pratice rounds for training are intirley blue, including the case. I have one. I would be suspect if the 20 MM in question has a brass case.

April 1, 2014, 04:16 AM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I do not know exactly how the law works,you may not have a problem... But before I possessed any ammo bigger than 50 BMG I'd be sure to find out if it was classified as a "destructive device". Sounds silly,but its the sort of thing can make life complicated.

April 1, 2014, 06:55 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"20 MM pratice rounds for training are intirley blue, including the case. I have one." I have never seen a totally blue 20mm training round. I've seen many that have standard blue projectiles -- I have two such rounds. Please post some pix of your round, I'd be interested in seeing it. "I would be suspect if the 20 MM in question has a brass case." Brass cased and steel cased intert training rounds are common. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 1, 2014, 07:08 PM	#11
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	Does it look like the this one? (on the right) __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.

April 2, 2014, 09:46 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Does it look like the this one? (on the right)" scratches head The one on the right is a 5.56 NATO rifle round. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 2, 2014, 04:30 PM	#14
Armed_Chicagoan Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2013 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 776	Look at the picture in a mirror.

April 2, 2014, 08:00 PM	#15
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	Ummm, yeah. Brainfart on that one My other right....oops __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.