Concealed Carry - capacity vs size?

[StrutStopper]

I have no problem carrying my CZ75D PCR with shorts and a tee shirt. Capacity 14 +1 of 9mm. I do have two LC9s, one the original LC9 and the other a LC9s Pro. Never did like the trigger on the original LC9, the trigger on the Pro is sweet. After I've run enough rounds thru it, I may decide to carry it on occasion. If pocket carry is necessary, it will definitely be riding in my DeSantis Nemisis. 7+1 rounds would hopefully be enough to get me out of whatever scrape I may find myself in. If not, we all gotta go sometime.

[O'Dell]

For me size and lightness trumps capacity. That's probably why I carry a PM45 or PM9 about 80% of the time.

[Andy Blozinski]

Limnophile...I posted a 5 year data set taken of individuals using their weapons in self defense situations. You felt this data inaccurate and typed in some statements about LA police shootings in response to crime scenes and felt this was a more accurate representation?

[alancac98]

I'm 5'8" and 145 lbs. Though I could carry a larger gun paying attention to all the variables, I carry my .45 XDS w/ 1- 7 round backup clip. So I have a total of 13 shots to get it done. Accuracy and smarts is what I hope gets me through any situation. If not, I pull my blade and attack like hell. (I'm probably going to die anyhow, so I'll make it on my terms). Now, I may think about the new XD mod 2 as it is nearly the same size but with more capacity. But... with more capacity comes more weight, so I'll have to borrow one to lug around for a bit to decide.(my brother just got one). as of now, I'm on the side of smaller and lighter.

[Worc]

I've been caring my HK P-30 V3 in 9mm IWB. I'm thinking I'll end up getting a Sig 290 RS in 9mm for IWB. Probably towards the end of summer when I can get some more time to check things out. I think I'd carry much more often with the smaller and lighter gun. At 8+1 it still has more capacity than a full size 1911 in .45.

[rt11002003]

raimius,I tend to wear the least amount of clothes possible. My wife doesn't even like me wearing a holster on a belt; she'd probably divorce me if I went to some of the items you mention (and we've been married 54 years). IWB, pocket, fanny pack and a dispatch bag (man's purse) are my modes of personal carry. So, sometimes I can carry an extra magazine, sometimes not. But, there's always room for the Kimber SOLO.

I'm old and set in my ways, hate stuff in my pockets. I can tolerate a gun in one pocket, but not a magazine in another.

[Limnophile]

Limnophile...I posted a 5 year data set taken of individuals using their weapons in self defense situations. You felt this data inaccurate and typed in some statements about LA police shootings in response to crime scenes and felt this was a more accurate representation?

Andy,

That is correct. The data in your link was gathered haphazardly at best; thus, no valid statistics can be drawn from them. That's the problem with "street data."

I'm unaware of any valid database of civilian defensive gun uses. I believe LE DGU data offer a fairly reasonable model for the armed civilian, and LE departments typically have policies requiring all gun discharges to be reported (non-NDs at the range excluded). The LAPD even requires the drawing of a weapon not fired to be reported.

Thus, the numbers in the LAPD's 2010 Use of Force Report do not constitute a sample (valid or otherwise), but rather a complete census of DGUs for that year.

The 2010 LAPD data are in general agreement with the Rule of 3s with regard to average number of shots fired in that the average per officer per incident was 2.5 as I recall. The average per incident, because in most incidents more that one LEO fired, was 4.5 shots as I recall. But, at least one incident involved 23 shots being fired.

By the way, the average distance involved in the 2010 LAPD shootings does not conform to the Rule of 3s, as it is in excess of 30 ft. While most of the shootings by far were with sidearms, some were with shotguns and rifles, which likely helped drive the distance up. The way the data are tabulated all I know is the longest shot of the year was greater than 60 ft.

The important point I wish to make is that planning for the average DGU of about 3 shots is risky. If we plan for the average DGU we wouldn't bother carrying a sidearm, because on the average day, year, or lifetime one has no need to use a gun for self defense. Of course, if the need ever does arise, no gun means trouble.

If one does opt to carry a handgun, the typical DGU involves drawing one's weapon but not firing. Thus, one might argue an empty gun is good enough on average. Of course, if the need to fire the gun arises, no ammo means trouble.

If one opts to carry one's gun loaded, the Rule of 3s says that about three rounds of capacity should suffice on average. Knowing this one might feel content carrying a compact 5-shot revolver with no reloads, but if you find yourself having to defend yourself against multiple armed assailants you may find yourself wishing you had carried a few reloads.

Capacity was a major criterion for me in choosing my carry pistols, but I've come to understand there is a role for the pocket pistol when deep concealment or convenience are more important. A pocket pistol will have a limited capacity, so it would be prudent to always carry at least one reload and preferably two.

[seeker_two]

Originally Posted by rt11002003

raimius,I tend to wear the least amount of clothes possible. My wife doesn't even like me wearing a holster on a belt; she'd probably divorce me if I went to some of the items you mention (and we've been married 54 years). IWB, pocket, fanny pack and a dispatch bag (man's purse) are my modes of personal carry. So, sometimes I can carry an extra magazine, sometimes not. But, there's always room for the Kimber SOLO.

I'm old and set in my ways, hate stuff in my pockets. I can tolerate a gun in one pocket, but not a magazine in another.

Ever try one of these?...... http://www.cabelas.com/product/Outdo...h-All+Products

[MANual_puller]

I've got a thing for capacity......my 12 gauge is magazine fed and holds 10+2....my edc pistol is a gov't sized double stack 1911 chambered in either 22TCM or 9mm and holds 17+1 And sometimes I've got a spare mag for the pistol on me My theory is go the biggest that is comfortably concealable. We're all still sucking oxygen so we can't be doing that bad whatever the method

[Ignition Override]

It's mostly academic and probably won't matter if they come behind you very quickly and quietly, as you step out of your car in a dark garage (or parking lot). Specops aren't the only fighters who are quick and silent-so are some young slender thugs.

Recently there was an Armed Attempted Home Invasion in our former home.
It happened last May to the guy who bought our Memphis house on Goodlett by Central Ave. The first house south, backs up to the soccer field.

The homeowner did not have a gun on him that night, and he told me that there was No time to pull a gun out during the total surprise.
In these situations, the type of gun won't matter as much as the chance to disarm an attacker who you are struggling with, with nothing but hands/feet etc.

As guns are seen as the only effective method of self-defense on gun boards, send me a 'pm' if you are curious how an unarmed guy
(retired Fedex pilot) got an attacker-armed with a handgun-to run away....as he was being pistol whipped while struggling...

[MANual_puller]

Lol little off topic, but yes, hand to hand skills are important too.

[Ignition Override]

MANual_puller:
Pardon the deviation, but on gun boards people always (seem to) assume that they will have time to pull it out when it is needed. Emphasis should be that thugs often know how to quickly sneak up on us, and many crouch very low when running around one's car, sometimes with an accomplice in front of us at a red light, to distract us.

Luckily a coworker spotted the croucher-at night, in the Rear view mirror!-and holding his revolver upright, out the window, this scared them away. The type of gun was not the issue.

My Sig 232 or Russian IZH Makarov (also .380 Auto) should work fine with their seven or eight rounds-but only If a Hidden Threat can somehow
be detected.