40 Cal and 10MM Case Issue

stlbob · March 11, 2013, 06:52 PM

The problem I’m having is cases recess when I resize them, the bulge at the bottom turns into a recess. This recess is where the bulge was about the lower 20% of the case. I know that a lose chamber causes a case bulge in the 10mm and the 40 S&W which is what I’m reloading. Here is what I’m using to resize the brass; first a push through Redding carbide resizing die, this one does not resize the whole case only the base bulge. No problem shows up in this step on the case except some are VERY hard to press though the die, I mean body weight on the handle hard. Second a full length resizing die, again carbide Redding, this is when the cases get the .002-.003 recess where the bulge was at the base, usually on one side but sometimes all the way around the case. I have found the if I use case Imperial lube only 1 in 20 will have the recess and need to be trashed, with no lube 3 out of 10 are trashed. I have tried a second standard resizing die again Redding carbide and the same thing happens. I have allowed the resizing dies to float in the holder of my press. I have tried an RCBS press. I have tried two methods of holding the case in the press, one is a jaw which opens on the downstroke (Co-Ax press) and a standard shell holder, neither of which make any difference. I have tried an RCBS press (single stage). I am not new to reloading but have not reloaded the 40 S&W or 10mm before, this is my first post.
Thanks in Advance,
bob

rogn · March 11, 2013, 07:39 PM

Im not entirely sure i understand your description. HoweverId go with lubing the cases, next, Id dump the Imperial and use RCBS, Lee, Mink oil or similar lube. Id also make sure the cases are aligned with the die and not being slightly offset. You are obviously pulling or pushing the brass out of alignment, or over stressing the case. Lube can be an issue and Ive had poor results with Imperial.

Ruger45LC · March 11, 2013, 08:00 PM

How bad is the bulge on the brass that is giving you problems? If it's "normal" then it should resize with ease. Seems to me if it's causing a recess, then the bulge was pretty severe to begin with.

bigD01 · March 11, 2013, 08:10 PM

please forgive for asking, but are you trying to resize a 10 mm with a .40 S+W die? I reload 40 with an RCBS carbide resizer die and these symptoms are unfamiliar to me. I don't use any lube on my cases. dont know what to tell you to help.

stlbob · March 12, 2013, 05:23 PM

Redding uses the same sizing die for the 10mm and the 40 S&W, I reload both and have an extra sizing die I used for testing. Ok the first die set from them had a die that was not finished; it crushed every case I put though it, Redding sent a replacement but I still have two resizing dies in my possession. To seat a bullet or crimp the case afterwards you back off the die for the 10mm.
I have had no problems personally with Imperial lube on bottle neck cases although I know everyone has their favorite case lube this is not a lube issue.
I have never used lube with a carbide pistol die before this issue came up, I have only used it on bottle neck rifle cases.
After the push through die the resizing die is when the recess shows up on some not all cases.
All cases that have this problem are range brass I purchased nickel on the S&W and brass on the 10MM. Purchased at different places but the same issue.
My loads are on the warm side, they don’t have this problem with my 10mm Witness (EAA, CZ clone). All cases will pass a case gauge including the ones I throw out.
My press is not causing the case to enter the die at an angle, I have tried two presses both single stage same result.
I know this is weird. I love the 10mm but to be honest I have not bought a 40 yet so I have not shot any of these rounds. This is making me lean back to a 9mm for a carry pistol I wanted a little more energy an thought the 40 looked good on paper. The 10mm is of course too big of a cannon for a CC piece.
I have pictures but it only shows up as a shine spot I don't have a close up lens.

serf 'rett · March 13, 2013, 09:13 AM

You've got something strange from the sound of things. I've sized over 15,000 40S&W cases but can't recall seeing what you are describing. I use RCBS die, Rock Chucker and Imperial Wax. Many of the brass/nickel cases have the belly from being shot in barrels lacking full support in the chamber, but I don't need to strong arm them during resizing.

Since my die does a fine resizing job, I have no need for a push through of Buldge Buster die.

Have you tried skipping the push through die and just using the resizing die?

Magnum Wheel Man · March 13, 2013, 12:50 PM

kinda still in the dark here, but trying to help...

so you are only having issues with the range brass, not the cases fired in your gun ???

the only range brass you are having issues with are nickel cases on the 40, & brass on the 10mm???

I'm not a Glock guy, but think I remember something about "not supporting the base of the case" or some such ??? could these have been fired in a Glock, or possibly something full auto ( do you know what they were fired in, since you said you bought them ??? )

so is this Redding "pass through" die supposed to work like the Lee buldge buster die??? if so, aren't those supposed to be used after the cartridge is loaded ???

BTW... I load 10mm for a Witness myself, as well as 40, 10, & 10 mag for a 610 revolver...

Hammerhead · March 13, 2013, 02:06 PM

Are the cases getting shorter when this happens?

Gster · March 13, 2013, 04:37 PM

Have you tried backing off the die a 1/2 turn or so? Sounds to me as though you are putting pressure on the case mouth.

stlbob · March 13, 2013, 07:52 PM

The case mouth is not hitting this die is for 10mm too which are longer, these are 40 S&W, shorter
The case does not become shorter.
I think I may have found the problem.
I had another really tight case and stopped halfway down on the press. You can see the bulge starts at about half way / two thirds up from the base. Most of these are the same brand but I think that is because someone reloaded them very hot and the gun was ejecting early causing the budge. On a closer look on most of these the primers was fired by a Glock (not blaming the gun but the re-loader) and do not show the normal line across that the Glock firing pin (striker?) makes. There is the center dot but the line that is usually on both side of the dot is not there, it is pushed back. There are some other in this lot that are not Glock firing that are doing this but they show evidence of reloading/ overpressure on the primer, wrong color primer brass or nickel. I should have looked closer at the primers, my bad.
No more lube I just throw these out and not even try to size them.
I would like to thank everyone for the help. I think if enough people think about a problem it usually gets solved.

rg1 · March 14, 2013, 01:12 PM

After using your push thru die, don't adjust your regular carbide sizing die down as far. The push thru die should size the bottom of the case. Carbide inserts don't have much of a radius and some will leave the ring you mention. If you don't have a case gauge use your barrel removed from your pistol as a case gauge to make sure they chamber easily.

March 11, 2013, 06:52 PM	#1
stlbob Junior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Posts: 4	40 Cal and 10MM Case Issue The problem I’m having is cases recess when I resize them, the bulge at the bottom turns into a recess. This recess is where the bulge was about the lower 20% of the case. I know that a lose chamber causes a case bulge in the 10mm and the 40 S&W which is what I’m reloading. Here is what I’m using to resize the brass; first a push through Redding carbide resizing die, this one does not resize the whole case only the base bulge. No problem shows up in this step on the case except some are VERY hard to press though the die, I mean body weight on the handle hard. Second a full length resizing die, again carbide Redding, this is when the cases get the .002-.003 recess where the bulge was at the base, usually on one side but sometimes all the way around the case. I have found the if I use case Imperial lube only 1 in 20 will have the recess and need to be trashed, with no lube 3 out of 10 are trashed. I have tried a second standard resizing die again Redding carbide and the same thing happens. I have allowed the resizing dies to float in the holder of my press. I have tried an RCBS press. I have tried two methods of holding the case in the press, one is a jaw which opens on the downstroke (Co-Ax press) and a standard shell holder, neither of which make any difference. I have tried an RCBS press (single stage). I am not new to reloading but have not reloaded the 40 S&W or 10mm before, this is my first post. Thanks in Advance, bob

March 11, 2013, 08:10 PM	#4
bigD01 Member Join Date: March 9, 2010 Posts: 46	sizing .40 and 10 mm please forgive for asking, but are you trying to resize a 10 mm with a .40 S+W die? I reload 40 with an RCBS carbide resizer die and these symptoms are unfamiliar to me. I don't use any lube on my cases. dont know what to tell you to help.

March 13, 2013, 09:13 AM	#6
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	You've got something strange from the sound of things. I've sized over 15,000 40S&W cases but can't recall seeing what you are describing. I use RCBS die, Rock Chucker and Imperial Wax. Many of the brass/nickel cases have the belly from being shot in barrels lacking full support in the chamber, but I don't need to strong arm them during resizing. Since my die does a fine resizing job, I have no need for a push through of Buldge Buster die. Have you tried skipping the push through die and just using the resizing die? __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

March 13, 2013, 12:50 PM	#7
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	kinda still in the dark here, but trying to help... so you are only having issues with the range brass, not the cases fired in your gun ??? the only range brass you are having issues with are nickel cases on the 40, & brass on the 10mm??? I'm not a Glock guy, but think I remember something about "not supporting the base of the case" or some such ??? could these have been fired in a Glock, or possibly something full auto ( do you know what they were fired in, since you said you bought them ??? ) so is this Redding "pass through" die supposed to work like the Lee buldge buster die??? if so, aren't those supposed to be used after the cartridge is loaded ??? BTW... I load 10mm for a Witness myself, as well as 40, 10, & 10 mag for a 610 revolver... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 13, 2013, 04:37 PM	#9
Gster Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Location: N.central Pa. Posts: 302	Have you tried backing off the die a 1/2 turn or so? Sounds to me as though you are putting pressure on the case mouth. __________________ Gun control means: Being able to hit what you are shooting at.

March 11, 2013, 07:39 PM	#2
rogn Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2005 Posts: 203	Im not entirely sure i understand your description. HoweverId go with lubing the cases, next, Id dump the Imperial and use RCBS, Lee, Mink oil or similar lube. Id also make sure the cases are aligned with the die and not being slightly offset. You are obviously pulling or pushing the brass out of alignment, or over stressing the case. Lube can be an issue and Ive had poor results with Imperial.

March 11, 2013, 08:00 PM	#3
Ruger45LC Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 768	How bad is the bulge on the brass that is giving you problems? If it's "normal" then it should resize with ease. Seems to me if it's causing a recess, then the bulge was pretty severe to begin with.

March 12, 2013, 05:23 PM	#5
stlbob Junior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Posts: 4	Redding uses the same sizing die for the 10mm and the 40 S&W, I reload both and have an extra sizing die I used for testing. Ok the first die set from them had a die that was not finished; it crushed every case I put though it, Redding sent a replacement but I still have two resizing dies in my possession. To seat a bullet or crimp the case afterwards you back off the die for the 10mm. I have had no problems personally with Imperial lube on bottle neck cases although I know everyone has their favorite case lube this is not a lube issue. I have never used lube with a carbide pistol die before this issue came up, I have only used it on bottle neck rifle cases. After the push through die the resizing die is when the recess shows up on some not all cases. All cases that have this problem are range brass I purchased nickel on the S&W and brass on the 10MM. Purchased at different places but the same issue. My loads are on the warm side, they don’t have this problem with my 10mm Witness (EAA, CZ clone). All cases will pass a case gauge including the ones I throw out. My press is not causing the case to enter the die at an angle, I have tried two presses both single stage same result. I know this is weird. I love the 10mm but to be honest I have not bought a 40 yet so I have not shot any of these rounds. This is making me lean back to a 9mm for a carry pistol I wanted a little more energy an thought the 40 looked good on paper. The 10mm is of course too big of a cannon for a CC piece. I have pictures but it only shows up as a shine spot I don't have a close up lens.

March 13, 2013, 02:06 PM	#8
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Are the cases getting shorter when this happens?

March 13, 2013, 07:52 PM	#10
stlbob Junior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Posts: 4	The case mouth is not hitting this die is for 10mm too which are longer, these are 40 S&W, shorter The case does not become shorter. I think I may have found the problem. I had another really tight case and stopped halfway down on the press. You can see the bulge starts at about half way / two thirds up from the base. Most of these are the same brand but I think that is because someone reloaded them very hot and the gun was ejecting early causing the budge. On a closer look on most of these the primers was fired by a Glock (not blaming the gun but the re-loader) and do not show the normal line across that the Glock firing pin (striker?) makes. There is the center dot but the line that is usually on both side of the dot is not there, it is pushed back. There are some other in this lot that are not Glock firing that are doing this but they show evidence of reloading/ overpressure on the primer, wrong color primer brass or nickel. I should have looked closer at the primers, my bad. No more lube I just throw these out and not even try to size them. I would like to thank everyone for the help. I think if enough people think about a problem it usually gets solved.

March 14, 2013, 01:12 PM	#11
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	After using your push thru die, don't adjust your regular carbide sizing die down as far. The push thru die should size the bottom of the case. Carbide inserts don't have much of a radius and some will leave the ring you mention. If you don't have a case gauge use your barrel removed from your pistol as a case gauge to make sure they chamber easily.