Mosin Nagant

The Gooch · August 16, 2001, 10:59 AM

Gents

I have have been toying with the idea of getting a mosin nagant rifle for some time now. Which one, being finnish or russian should I go with? Also, how accurate are these rifle? Anyone have any good tales of grandure?

The Gooch

boogalou1 · August 16, 2001, 11:27 AM

If you're looking for a long rifle, the Finn M39 is the best bet for a M-N. They are still quite common and inexpensive. If you decide to install a scope however, be aware that almost all M39's were built on hex receivers, while current scope mounts are made for M-N round receivers. If you desire a carbine, I would try either a polish or russian M44, or a M91/59. The only difference between them is the M44 has a attached bayonet which would have to be removed by grinding the lug off the end of the barrel. Or you could keep the thing on, but the M44's were made to be shot with the bayonet extended, so that could be a problem. M44's have round receivers, but I'm not sure about the M91/59. Also be aware that the Finn's built their rifles from captured russian guns, so the only metal parts matching on a Finn would be the receiver and bolt, and that would be force-matched. The Finn's used their own barrels and stocks, and that is what makes them more accurate then the russian M-N.

444 · August 16, 2001, 12:10 PM

The Finn M39 is the cream of the mil-surp rifle crop. The are very accurate, and reliable. If you compare them with the other rifles based on the Moisin Nagant action, you will see that a lot more thought and quality went into the M39. This is a refined MN.

The following is my point of view on mil surp rifles. This point of view is not nessessarily the opinion of this station or it's sponsers.
Rant mode on: This is your rifle, you can do whatever you want with it, but..... why butcher an historical item with scopes and what have you, when you don't have to ? If you can't own a piece of history and be happy with it, there are scope mounts made for all this stuff that will attach without butchering an antique. Yes, the majority of those hex actions are over 100 years old. The date is marked under the tang, on the action. I have a scope on one of my M39s. It did not damage the rifle in any way. I can return the rifle to stock condition in minutes. The rifle will shoot less than 1" at 100 yards with the scope and mount.

Rant mode off.

DeputyVaughn · August 16, 2001, 12:42 PM

I aquired a Romanian M44 Carbine last summer. It's a wonderful shooter. Using the iron sights I was hitting a spray paint can 4 of 5 shots at 100yds standing. I'm still working on a handload for a 180 grain FMJ bullet. The Russian surplus stuff has a 220 grain bullet I think. I bought some Sellier and Bellot 180 grain sps for possible hunting applications but they shoot noticably lower compared to the Russian stuff. The rifle has a heck of a kick. You don't have to shoot long to get a sore shoulder. I recommend it highly.

My plans for my Nagant are to try to mount a long eye relief scope in place of the rear sight and replace the stock with a synthetic one. I'm hoping to end up with a cheap scout rifle. I won't do it though unless I can return it to original condition without damage.

Oh yea, my purchase price was $60.00. For that price you can't go wrong. I wish I had bought 2.

Scott A. Vaughn

P.S. This will be my 100th post.....Whoooooooo...Whoooooooo!!!!!!!!

Erich · August 16, 2001, 01:59 PM

The Finn 39s I've seen (assuming a good bore) will generally approach 1" groups at 100 yds. Allegheny Arms has some re-arsenaled Russki 91/30s if you want to go that route - some 91/30s are accurate, some aren't so hot. The 91/59s (all that I've seen have been fresh out of the arsenal) are a good value, too. There are lots of 44s out there in great shape for a great value.

If you were only planning on getting one, you should go for the Finn (assuming you can find one in great shape).

sapienza · August 16, 2001, 02:34 PM

And if you can't find a Finnish one, but still want above-average quality, I will have to very readily voice my support for the Polish M44s. Top-notch guns.

Erich · August 16, 2001, 03:08 PM

Nope, there's nothing wrong with the Pole 44s.

ZeusOne · August 16, 2001, 03:51 PM

My $60 Hungarian(?)M44 carbine, combined with cheap milsurp ammo (<$4/20 rnds) shoots better than I do. Shooting an iron-sighted rifle is a refreshing alternative, and this one will stay stock. Smiles all around.

I'm not all that recoil sensitive, but I gotta admit that this one does tend to kick the tar out of me after 30 or 40 rounds.

sapienza · August 17, 2001, 12:34 AM

Regarding recoil and the Mosin clones, I've found that a towel draped over my shoulder (yeah, go ahead, call me a wuss, I've heard it regarding these before

) *really* takes the bite out of the mosins. I shot 80 rounds two weekends ago and then another 140 or so last weekend from my MN with NO problem from the recoil.

... except for the one time that the rifle slipped up and all the recoil went back into my clavicle, but that's another story. (good lord did that hurt!!)

sapienza

Destructo6 · August 17, 2001, 01:03 AM

Anybody know of an off the rack buttpad would easily replace the steel buttplate of a M44? I was looking at some of the Mini-14 recoil pads (recoil pad for a Mini?!! WTFO?) and they looked pretty close. If I could get one on easily, I don't think I'd shoot either of my other bolt guns (Enfield/Mauser).

10CFR · August 17, 2001, 01:56 AM

The Polish M-44's are nice. A friend has two in unissued condition. There are a lot of choices on these. The original Russian, Hungarian, etc. I've also seen examples of the Chinese Type 53 which were real nice too. I generally am not too fond of Chinese guns, but the two examples of the Type 53 were probably the best workmanship I've seen. From what I understand, they were assembled under direct supervision of the Russians when the Chinese picked up the Mosin-Nagant carbine design and went into production of it.

-10CFR

**4V50 Gary** · August 17, 2001, 12:55 PM

The Finns for accuracy. For a good read, Rifles of White Death. I have two MN snipers, one from Ivzhesk (sp) and the other from Tula. No time for the range yet.

Oris · August 17, 2001, 10:07 PM

With little work, any MN may look like this:

Oris · August 17, 2001, 10:11 PM

Disregard my previous post, was not able to unlosd the picture file.

August 16, 2001, 10:59 AM	#1
The Gooch Member Join Date: June 3, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 71	Mosin Nagant Gents I have have been toying with the idea of getting a mosin nagant rifle for some time now. Which one, being finnish or russian should I go with? Also, how accurate are these rifle? Anyone have any good tales of grandure? The Gooch

August 16, 2001, 12:10 PM	#3
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	The Finn M39 is the cream of the mil-surp rifle crop. The are very accurate, and reliable. If you compare them with the other rifles based on the Moisin Nagant action, you will see that a lot more thought and quality went into the M39. This is a refined MN. The following is my point of view on mil surp rifles. This point of view is not nessessarily the opinion of this station or it's sponsers. Rant mode on: This is your rifle, you can do whatever you want with it, but..... why butcher an historical item with scopes and what have you, when you don't have to ? If you can't own a piece of history and be happy with it, there are scope mounts made for all this stuff that will attach without butchering an antique. Yes, the majority of those hex actions are over 100 years old. The date is marked under the tang, on the action. I have a scope on one of my M39s. It did not damage the rifle in any way. I can return the rifle to stock condition in minutes. The rifle will shoot less than 1" at 100 yards with the scope and mount. Rant mode off. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

August 16, 2001, 12:42 PM	#4
DeputyVaughn Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 300	I aquired a Romanian M44 Carbine last summer. It's a wonderful shooter. Using the iron sights I was hitting a spray paint can 4 of 5 shots at 100yds standing. I'm still working on a handload for a 180 grain FMJ bullet. The Russian surplus stuff has a 220 grain bullet I think. I bought some Sellier and Bellot 180 grain sps for possible hunting applications but they shoot noticably lower compared to the Russian stuff. The rifle has a heck of a kick. You don't have to shoot long to get a sore shoulder. I recommend it highly. My plans for my Nagant are to try to mount a long eye relief scope in place of the rear sight and replace the stock with a synthetic one. I'm hoping to end up with a cheap scout rifle. I won't do it though unless I can return it to original condition without damage. Oh yea, my purchase price was $60.00. For that price you can't go wrong. I wish I had bought 2. Scott A. Vaughn P.S. This will be my 100th post.....Whoooooooo...Whoooooooo!!!!!!!! __________________ Always Remember: A firearm is only an instrument. It contains no evil, no conscience, and no ability. It is strictly the intent, competence, and character of its user that decide the outcome of any and all actions taken with it. (I don't know who to credit but I like the quote.)

August 16, 2001, 01:59 PM	#5
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,543	Didn't you ask about this back in June? The Finn 39s I've seen (assuming a good bore) will generally approach 1" groups at 100 yds. Allegheny Arms has some re-arsenaled Russki 91/30s if you want to go that route - some 91/30s are accurate, some aren't so hot. The 91/59s (all that I've seen have been fresh out of the arsenal) are a good value, too. There are lots of 44s out there in great shape for a great value. If you were only planning on getting one, you should go for the Finn (assuming you can find one in great shape).

August 16, 2001, 02:34 PM	#6
sapienza Member Join Date: July 23, 2001 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 55	Don't understimate the Poles And if you can't find a Finnish one, but still want above-average quality, I will have to very readily voice my support for the Polish M44s. Top-notch guns.

August 16, 2001, 11:27 AM	#2
boogalou1 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 138	If you're looking for a long rifle, the Finn M39 is the best bet for a M-N. They are still quite common and inexpensive. If you decide to install a scope however, be aware that almost all M39's were built on hex receivers, while current scope mounts are made for M-N round receivers. If you desire a carbine, I would try either a polish or russian M44, or a M91/59. The only difference between them is the M44 has a attached bayonet which would have to be removed by grinding the lug off the end of the barrel. Or you could keep the thing on, but the M44's were made to be shot with the bayonet extended, so that could be a problem. M44's have round receivers, but I'm not sure about the M91/59. Also be aware that the Finn's built their rifles from captured russian guns, so the only metal parts matching on a Finn would be the receiver and bolt, and that would be force-matched. The Finn's used their own barrels and stocks, and that is what makes them more accurate then the russian M-N.

August 16, 2001, 03:08 PM	#7
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,543	Nope, there's nothing wrong with the Pole 44s.

August 16, 2001, 03:51 PM	#8
ZeusOne Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: The hills of Western MD Posts: 237	My $60 Hungarian(?)M44 carbine, combined with cheap milsurp ammo (<$4/20 rnds) shoots better than I do. Shooting an iron-sighted rifle is a refreshing alternative, and this one will stay stock. Smiles all around. I'm not all that recoil sensitive, but I gotta admit that this one does tend to kick the tar out of me after 30 or 40 rounds.

August 17, 2001, 12:34 AM	#9
sapienza Member Join Date: July 23, 2001 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 55	Regarding recoil and the Mosin clones, I've found that a towel draped over my shoulder (yeah, go ahead, call me a wuss, I've heard it regarding these before ) really takes the bite out of the mosins. I shot 80 rounds two weekends ago and then another 140 or so last weekend from my MN with NO problem from the recoil. ... except for the one time that the rifle slipped up and all the recoil went back into my clavicle, but that's another story. (good lord did that hurt!!) sapienza

August 17, 2001, 01:03 AM	#10
Destructo6 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: Nogales, AZ USA Posts: 4,000	Anybody know of an off the rack buttpad would easily replace the steel buttplate of a M44? I was looking at some of the Mini-14 recoil pads (recoil pad for a Mini?!! WTFO?) and they looked pretty close. If I could get one on easily, I don't think I'd shoot either of my other bolt guns (Enfield/Mauser).

August 17, 2001, 01:56 AM	#11
10CFR Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Posts: 351	The Polish M-44's are nice. A friend has two in unissued condition. There are a lot of choices on these. The original Russian, Hungarian, etc. I've also seen examples of the Chinese Type 53 which were real nice too. I generally am not too fond of Chinese guns, but the two examples of the Type 53 were probably the best workmanship I've seen. From what I understand, they were assembled under direct supervision of the Russians when the Chinese picked up the Mosin-Nagant carbine design and went into production of it. -10CFR

August 17, 2001, 12:55 PM	#12
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	The Finns for accuracy. For a good read, Rifles of White Death. I have two MN snipers, one from Ivzhesk (sp) and the other from Tula. No time for the range yet. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 17, 2001, 10:07 PM	#13
Oris Junior member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Posts: 566	With little work, any MN may look like this:

August 17, 2001, 10:11 PM	#14
Oris Junior member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Posts: 566	Disregard my previous post, was not able to unlosd the picture file.

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