Chicago IL area school officials upset over "no guns" signs....

[billygun]

And these are the people teaching children. We are doomed!

BG

[Tom Servo]

Sorry to be a downer on that but we can't throw techy terms around loosely.

Agreed and seconded. If we accuse our opponents of being mentally ill, we really don't have much place complaining when they cast aspersions at us.

Now where did that 30-caliber magazine clip go? I had it half a second ago...

[JimmyR]

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

No - because opposition to gun usage is not the same as the symptoms of an anxiety disorder. Unless you get those, the term lacks descriptive power.

Some who is just an antigunner doesn't meet the DSM criteria by logical extension to use the term. You need the anxiety symptoms.

Opposition to gun ownership may be misguided in our view but is not apriori pathological.

For those who are interested in what it takes to actually have a phobia, per the DSM-IV-TR

Originally Posted by DSM IV-TR 300.23

Diagnostic Criteria for Speciffic Phobias
1.Marked and persistent fear that is excessive or unreasonable, cued by the presence or anticipation of a specific object or situation (e.g., flying, heights, animals, receiving an injection, seeing blood).
2.Exposure to the phobic stimulus almost invariably provokes an immediate anxiety response, which may take the form of a situationally bound or situationally predisposed panic attack.
3.The person recognizes that the fear is excessive or unreasonable.
4.The phobic situation(s) is avoided or else is endured with intense anxiety or distress.
5.The avoidance, anxious anticipation or distress in the feared situation(s) interferes significantly with the person's normal routine, occupational (or academic) functioning, or social activities or relationships, or there is marked distress about having the phobia.
6.In individuals under the age of 18, the duration is at least 6 months.
7.The anxiety, panic attack, or phobic avoidance associated with the specific object or situation are not better accounted for by another mental disorder, such as Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (e.g., fear of dirt in someone with an obsession about contamination), posttraumatic stress disorder (e.g., avoidance of stimuli associated with a severe stressor), separation anxiety disorder (e.g., avoidance of school), social phobia (e.g., avoidance of social situations because of fear of embarrassment), panic disorder with agoraphobia, or agoraphobia without history of panic disorder.

Note the emphases. While it would seem at times that people who are against the presence of firearms in public environments appear to be irrationally afraid, stepping back reveals their fear is the same as ours. They fear that a BG with a gun puts their lives at risk. They know they have no way of knowing who the BG is until an event happens. The very reason we choose to carry is the same they want to ban guns from the public square. Where we differ is our approach to solving that problem.

[ClydeFrog]

To me, the sign dispute is more of a example of the elitist nature of these public school administrators/educators. They want to throw their weight around & demonstrate how they can control nearly every faucet of what goes on in the school/on school grounds at their whim.

A few years ago, in the late 1990s, I heard a media story of a upscale neighborhood in the metro Pittsburgh PA area that wanted the local 911 call center(LE agency) to stop displaying the home addresses of any emergencies on the systems.
These residents wanted "privacy" & to not let any first responders have quick access to their locations.
This is the same as the stupid "no gun picture signs" drive.

Some people don't get or comprehend how outlandish or unrealistic their behavior/remarks are until someone points it out.

Clyde
PS; about 3 months ago a local school administrator(vice principal) was doing a morning safety check of his school grounds prior to classes starting when a homeless vagrant attacked him! The street thug broke in & was hiding in a office. The principal was hurt in the event. If it were me, Id have a white light(with a strobe feature) & a C2 Taser or Mk 9 OC spray with me.

[Double Naught Spy]

To me, the sign dispute is more of a example of the elitist nature of these public school administrators/educators. They want to throw their weight around & demonstrate how they can control nearly every faucet of what goes on in the school/on school grounds at their whim.

I hardly think this is the case. Of course if it is, that these administrators have expressed an opinion that they don't like something is an example of them attempting to throw their weight around on a whim, then you (and most of the rest of us) are guilty of the same thing by expressing an opinion on their opinion.

Some people don't get or comprehend how outlandish or unrealistic their behavior/remarks are until someone points it out.

That is certainly a spot-on statement.

[4runnerman]

I think post 24 hit the nail on the head. I am a old fart and so I was brought up in old fart times. I think people need to see this as a social issue and not a gun issue. As posted in #24, The BG do not care if a sign is hanging or not. No one is responsable for what they do any more. It is my fault,your fault,his fault,her fault, Never the BG's fault. We as a people have gotten to the point now that No one person is bad. As a country I see this gun issue getting much worse to the point of banning them all together for everyone ( What they think is a perfect world ). Those of you that are my age,Think back to your youth, You walked in a store,layed money on table,walked out with fire arm. You could walk into a Holiday Gas station and buy a rifle. These signs on the door is just another step in the direction I see us going whether we like it or not. Mind melt the children for future laws to be passed in years to come. No bad people,just bad guns.

[ClydeFrog]

But bad guys don't go to jail or to prison they go to corrections.
It's not their fault they had no $ or morals or skill training(jobs).

To me it's a example of how some anti-gun supporters want to decide what goes on. Like how in post-Newtown CT 2012, they started using the term; gun safety. It's not gun control anymore. Because no one wants to control you right?

Parents & local tax payers need to stand up to these incidents and be vocal. Anti-gun/anti 2A groups will roll over anyone to push their agenda.

[Tom Servo]

Like how in post-Newtown CT 2012, they started using the term; gun safety. It's not gun control anymore.

Yep. Let's not forget that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence was once called Handgun Control, Inc. The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV) was originally the National Coalition to Ban Handguns. They're smart enough to realize when certain words (like "ban" and "control") just don't resonate well with the public.

Illinois Senator Don Harmon is now sponsoring a bill under which businesses would have to "opt in" if they want to allow guns on their premises. Apparently, the lack of support for posting no-guns signs is causing some hand-wringing.

[44 AMP]

If they demonize even the depiction of guns, people will be intimidated and will have little desire to own one. At least that's the idea.

they'll have a tough sell in HOLLYWOOD! Constant depictions of gun use, legal (cops & the hero) and illegal (everyone else, including the hero), are fed to us 24/7 from our entertainment industry.

Just curious, that list from DSM IV-TR 300.23...does one have to meet ALL the criteria in order to be officially "phobic"?

In particular,

3.The person recognizes that the fear is excessive or unreasonable.

the old joke about not being paranoid if there really is someone out to get you comes to mind....

If you don't recognize your fear as excessive or unreasonable, then you don't have a phobia? or do you? Or are you just put in a different classification?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

All of the following should be fulfilled for a definite diagnosis:
(a) psychological or autonomic symptoms must be primary manifestations of anxiety, and not secondary to other symptoms such as delusion or obsessional thought; (b) anxiety must be restricted to the presence of the particular phobic object or situation; and (c) phobic situation is avoided whenever possible.

Of the symptoms, you need all three above. Like I said, we can try to chortle and stretch it but you cannot really claim the typical antigun person is technically phobic.

[44 AMP]

Ok,I think I got it. Anti gunners are not technically phobic because their anxiety is not secondary to their delusional or obsessional thoughts.

gotta love concise definitions