45 long colt cartridge - Page 3

gyvel · March 31, 2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

CAP is also a valid headstamp on some .25, .32, and .380s manufactured probably through World War I.

Actually, I did mean to put "CAPH" and not "CAP." I don't think I have ever seen a "CAP" headstamp, only the "Colt Automatic Pistol Hammerless" version.

Now I have to look out for "CAP" marked brass.

**Mike Irwin** · March 31, 2011, 10:25 AM

If I remember correctly, early Peters shells used the CAP headstamp.

BlueTrain · March 31, 2011, 10:54 AM

When you think about it, it isn't surprising that such a wide variation existed in cartridges with (almost) the same name. After all, everything was new in the 1870s and it generally takes a while for things to settle down. Think about it. The Colt Single Action Army was only in official service for about 20 years before it was replaced--then recalled briefly. When someone decided maybe it was a good idea to have an automatic pistol cartridge between 9mm and .45 ACP, there was more than a little experimenting with different lengths and whatnot before the .40 S&W became a real standard, though the also rans will be around for a while. A hundred years from now, people will be scratching their heads about it.

Jim Watson · March 31, 2011, 10:55 AM

I allus thot the .44-40 designation came about when Marlin did not want to put that big WCF on their rifles.

Ever see a SAP headstamp from when Savage had ammunition made for their pistols with no reference to Colt? All I have seen were in an old Gun Digest article.

Elmer Keith said you wouldn't wonder why it is called .45 Long Colt if you had seen the short smokeless .45s turned out by Peters before WW I. He found them low in power and poor in accuracy. I have never seen another reference to the round, was it a smokeless load of .45 S&W? If so, why? The Schofield was long obsolete by then.

Sensai · March 31, 2011, 11:04 AM

Can't we all just get a"long"?

**Mike Irwin** · March 31, 2011, 11:42 AM

"I allus thot the .44-40 designation came about when Marlin did not want to put that big WCF on their rifles."

The first rifle that I know of that Marlin chambered in .44-40 was the Model 1894, and by that time the .44-40 had entered the lexicon, so I don't think Marlin had anything to do with it.

The first company I know of other than Winchester to chamber a rifle in .44-40 was Colt in 1884 with the Lightning slide action.

"Ever see a SAP headstamp from when Savage had ammunition made for their pistols with no reference to Colt? All I have seen were in an old Gun Digest article."

I've never seen a cartridge marked SAP, but Savage DID for many years mark .25, .32, and .380 cartridges <caliber> A.S.P for Automatic Savage Pistol.

ClemBert · March 31, 2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeKPP

Since the 45 long colt cartridge was longer in 1873 then today. Would that make the cyclinder longer or its the same size as todays peace makers.

Criminy! Y'all still goin' strong I see....

The only reason I threw some gasoline on the ol' fire was because of the unusual post of the OP. The use of the name 45 Long Colt along with the words longer in 1873 was just too tempting. That's why they call me El Travieso Diablo. Let me know if y'all get low on matches or gasoline.

p.s. It's 45 Colt....

March 31, 2011, 10:25 AM	#52
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	If I remember correctly, early Peters shells used the CAP headstamp. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 31, 2011, 10:54 AM	#53
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	When you think about it, it isn't surprising that such a wide variation existed in cartridges with (almost) the same name. After all, everything was new in the 1870s and it generally takes a while for things to settle down. Think about it. The Colt Single Action Army was only in official service for about 20 years before it was replaced--then recalled briefly. When someone decided maybe it was a good idea to have an automatic pistol cartridge between 9mm and .45 ACP, there was more than a little experimenting with different lengths and whatnot before the .40 S&W became a real standard, though the also rans will be around for a while. A hundred years from now, people will be scratching their heads about it. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

March 31, 2011, 11:04 AM	#55
Sensai Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Location: Southeastern Virginia Posts: 86	Can't we all just get a"long"? __________________ Gary Take-offs are optional, landings are manditory!!

March 31, 2011, 11:42 AM	#56
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"I allus thot the .44-40 designation came about when Marlin did not want to put that big WCF on their rifles." The first rifle that I know of that Marlin chambered in .44-40 was the Model 1894, and by that time the .44-40 had entered the lexicon, so I don't think Marlin had anything to do with it. The first company I know of other than Winchester to chamber a rifle in .44-40 was Colt in 1884 with the Lightning slide action. "Ever see a SAP headstamp from when Savage had ammunition made for their pistols with no reference to Colt? All I have seen were in an old Gun Digest article." I've never seen a cartridge marked SAP, but Savage DID for many years mark .25, .32, and .380 cartridges <caliber> A.S.P for Automatic Savage Pistol. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 31, 2011, 10:55 AM	#54
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I allus thot the .44-40 designation came about when Marlin did not want to put that big WCF on their rifles. Ever see a SAP headstamp from when Savage had ammunition made for their pistols with no reference to Colt? All I have seen were in an old Gun Digest article. Elmer Keith said you wouldn't wonder why it is called .45 Long Colt if you had seen the short smokeless .45s turned out by Peters before WW I. He found them low in power and poor in accuracy. I have never seen another reference to the round, was it a smokeless load of .45 S&W? If so, why? The Schofield was long obsolete by then.