1911 frames

skizzums · September 7, 2015, 09:06 AM

Most of the smithy regulars are kinda familiar with my level of "smithing" and the tools I have at my disposal. But ill say again, I have an old beat up atlas lathe, my dad has a very nice "smithy" mill/lathe. I have a drill press and most other essentials. I have made many AR lowers, threaded muzzled, cut and crowned, turned an sks barrel and other odd jobs.

I have the new issue of "Shotgun News" with several advertisements hocking so-called 80% 1911 frames, raw castings as cheap as 30$ and more complete ones at 100$. Some aluminum and some steel. Always looking for something to get that keeps me learning and having fun, this piqued my interest. What's the involvement to complete these frames, how detailed does it have to be? What's the difference between a 20$ casting and a 100$ 80% frames? Anyone made one of these?
I see on the 100$ frames, it requires slide rails, hammer and sear holes, mainspring housing pin and ejector "leg" holes. All sounds doable, the slide rails I assume being most difficult. My concern is there are no idiot proof "jigs" like AR lowers.

Old Stony · September 7, 2015, 01:07 PM

You should be able to just about buy a new finished receiver for about the same money. Other than skipping the serial number thing..why bother?

skizzums · September 7, 2015, 02:16 PM

just thought t'd be a fun project maybe.....maybe it would be horrible. where are these complete frames sold BTW?

Don P · September 7, 2015, 04:04 PM

I believe you will need to mill the feed ramp and definitely the rails. They do sell a jig for the completion of the frame but it is costly.
Brownells sells frames ready to go.
www.brownells.com

James K · September 7, 2015, 05:51 PM

I don't know about all of them, but some of those frames don't even have the holes drilled; if that is not done and done right, the parts won't fit or work together properly.

Unless one is really paranoid on serial numbers and must have a "clean" gun, I consider those 80% frames an exercise in frustration and a real PITA to make fit and work. Some folks say that almost all of them end up in the junk box.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · September 7, 2015, 09:04 PM

I'd rather buy a finished lower. Bought one for $139.99 from Palmetto State Armory.

Hunter Customs · September 8, 2015, 08:29 AM

Quote:

I don't know about all of them, but some of those frames don't even have the holes drilled; if that is not done and done right, the parts won't fit or work together properly.

James K brought up a very good point about the sear and hammer pin holes needing drilled.

They need to be located in the correct place, drilled/reamed to correct size and must be true (as in straight).
The pin holes are more critical then the frames rails.

If you decide to go forward with this project I would highly advise getting a very good set of 1911 blue prints and study them before buying the frame.

James K · September 8, 2015, 11:54 AM

Several years ago, a friend bought a "partially finished" 1911 frame (receiver). It was a rough casting; only the top was faced off. The magazine well was not even broached, nor was the dust cover drilled out. No holes, of course, and no rails. He tried to get his money back, but never succeeded. My friend may still have that frame in his junk box to be finished "some day."

Now that frame was not advertised as any percentage, just "partially finished", but I am suspicious of the DIY stuff.

Jim

Dixie Gunsmithing · September 8, 2015, 11:57 AM

The screw and pin holes have to be pretty exact, especially the hammer, sear, etc., if they're not drilled and reamed. To do it right, you'll need to do some layout on a surface plate, using a dial-height gauge, then put it in a mill, and use dial indicators to measure the two axis' of movement, to match the critical hole placements. You have to work from two edge surfaces, (all measurements taken from them at 90 degrees to the other), and they have to be the same two you start with at the surface plate.

skizzums · September 9, 2015, 05:27 AM

that's my concern. I know 1911's can vary on small things like that. I don't own a 1911 to look to for advice, and I don't see any simplified jigs/templates that would make it easy. may not be for me, just wondering if others have done it here, and could tell me how much of a crap shoot it os. I don't care about going through an FFL if a finished fame is easy to find at an affordable price. I do feel that if I hade a finished frame, I could do the slide myself, but those may be so cheap not to bother. always just looking for a fun and cheap project, this looked like a possibility, but maybe not. I guess i'll stick to playing with my mosin's for a bit before I get involved in handgunning.

thanks.

still though, if anyone has ever done one of these, I would still be interested to hear the process, what was the most difficult parts of the project and how it turned out. it's an interesting thought

James K · September 9, 2015, 09:01 PM

Some of those 80% kits run around $800 and up; frames from top makers run as much or more, just for the frame.

The days when you could buy a frame for $29.95, throw on a $15 GI surplus slide and $5 or so worth of surplus parts and have a complete gun are gone. If you want a 1911, my suggestion is to buy one; a new Remington or Ruger will run less than the kit and you don't have to set up the milling machine.

Jim

rightside · September 10, 2015, 04:25 PM

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/frm-rockis...izedframe.aspx

Jim Watson · September 10, 2015, 04:59 PM

The Stealth Arms stuff is getting a lot of play now.
$349 for a jig and "80%" frame, another frame at $165.

If you just want something to work on or if you want a cold gun (Do you really think they will not give up their shipping records if demanded by the feds?) it can be made to work.
If you want to build a gun, just buy a receiver.

skizzums · September 10, 2015, 08:46 PM

okay, I get it folks. just too hard. I just saw a bunch of frames, some just straight castings for 25$ and some milled so-called 80%ers for 79-100, may slides for under 30$ as well and parts kits for very cheap, the barrels ran 50-100$. but I was adding up the priciest ones of the offered kits and a 1911 was coming out to under 300 for pretty much everything, seemed interesting if it only took a bunch of elbow grease. I had just never seen them and was curious if it was as simple as milling out a few areas like an 80% AR. I didn't know how much work would be involved and assumed the slide rail would be the most difficult part. but if it a huge undertaking and not "idiot-proof" as the AR's, i'll stay away. thank you. I saw the ads in the current "shotgun news" and I was just curious.

September 7, 2015, 09:06 AM	#1
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	1911 frames Most of the smithy regulars are kinda familiar with my level of "smithing" and the tools I have at my disposal. But ill say again, I have an old beat up atlas lathe, my dad has a very nice "smithy" mill/lathe. I have a drill press and most other essentials. I have made many AR lowers, threaded muzzled, cut and crowned, turned an sks barrel and other odd jobs. I have the new issue of "Shotgun News" with several advertisements hocking so-called 80% 1911 frames, raw castings as cheap as 30$ and more complete ones at 100$. Some aluminum and some steel. Always looking for something to get that keeps me learning and having fun, this piqued my interest. What's the involvement to complete these frames, how detailed does it have to be? What's the difference between a 20$ casting and a 100$ 80% frames? Anyone made one of these? I see on the 100$ frames, it requires slide rails, hammer and sear holes, mainspring housing pin and ejector "leg" holes. All sounds doable, the slide rails I assume being most difficult. My concern is there are no idiot proof "jigs" like AR lowers. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

September 7, 2015, 02:16 PM	#3
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	just thought t'd be a fun project maybe.....maybe it would be horrible. where are these complete frames sold BTW? __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

September 7, 2015, 04:04 PM	#4
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I believe you will need to mill the feed ramp and definitely the rails. They do sell a jig for the completion of the frame but it is costly. Brownells sells frames ready to go. www.brownells.com __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

September 7, 2015, 09:04 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I'd rather buy a finished lower. Bought one for $139.99 from Palmetto State Armory. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 9, 2015, 05:27 AM	#10
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	that's my concern. I know 1911's can vary on small things like that. I don't own a 1911 to look to for advice, and I don't see any simplified jigs/templates that would make it easy. may not be for me, just wondering if others have done it here, and could tell me how much of a crap shoot it os. I don't care about going through an FFL if a finished fame is easy to find at an affordable price. I do feel that if I hade a finished frame, I could do the slide myself, but those may be so cheap not to bother. always just looking for a fun and cheap project, this looked like a possibility, but maybe not. I guess i'll stick to playing with my mosin's for a bit before I get involved in handgunning. thanks. still though, if anyone has ever done one of these, I would still be interested to hear the process, what was the most difficult parts of the project and how it turned out. it's an interesting thought __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

September 7, 2015, 01:07 PM	#2
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	You should be able to just about buy a new finished receiver for about the same money. Other than skipping the serial number thing..why bother?

September 7, 2015, 05:51 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't know about all of them, but some of those frames don't even have the holes drilled; if that is not done and done right, the parts won't fit or work together properly. Unless one is really paranoid on serial numbers and must have a "clean" gun, I consider those 80% frames an exercise in frustration and a real PITA to make fit and work. Some folks say that almost all of them end up in the junk box. Jim

September 8, 2015, 11:54 AM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Several years ago, a friend bought a "partially finished" 1911 frame (receiver). It was a rough casting; only the top was faced off. The magazine well was not even broached, nor was the dust cover drilled out. No holes, of course, and no rails. He tried to get his money back, but never succeeded. My friend may still have that frame in his junk box to be finished "some day." Now that frame was not advertised as any percentage, just "partially finished", but I am suspicious of the DIY stuff. Jim

September 8, 2015, 11:57 AM	#9
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The screw and pin holes have to be pretty exact, especially the hammer, sear, etc., if they're not drilled and reamed. To do it right, you'll need to do some layout on a surface plate, using a dial-height gauge, then put it in a mill, and use dial indicators to measure the two axis' of movement, to match the critical hole placements. You have to work from two edge surfaces, (all measurements taken from them at 90 degrees to the other), and they have to be the same two you start with at the surface plate.

September 9, 2015, 09:01 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Some of those 80% kits run around $800 and up; frames from top makers run as much or more, just for the frame. The days when you could buy a frame for $29.95, throw on a $15 GI surplus slide and $5 or so worth of surplus parts and have a complete gun are gone. If you want a 1911, my suggestion is to buy one; a new Remington or Ruger will run less than the kit and you don't have to set up the milling machine. Jim

September 10, 2015, 04:25 PM	#12
rightside Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 419	http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/frm-rockis...izedframe.aspx

September 10, 2015, 04:59 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The Stealth Arms stuff is getting a lot of play now. $349 for a jig and "80%" frame, another frame at $165. If you just want something to work on or if you want a cold gun (Do you really think they will not give up their shipping records if demanded by the feds?) it can be made to work. If you want to build a gun, just buy a receiver.

September 10, 2015, 08:46 PM	#14
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	okay, I get it folks. just too hard. I just saw a bunch of frames, some just straight castings for 25$ and some milled so-called 80%ers for 79-100, may slides for under 30$ as well and parts kits for very cheap, the barrels ran 50-100$. but I was adding up the priciest ones of the offered kits and a 1911 was coming out to under 300 for pretty much everything, seemed interesting if it only took a bunch of elbow grease. I had just never seen them and was curious if it was as simple as milling out a few areas like an 80% AR. I didn't know how much work would be involved and assumed the slide rail would be the most difficult part. but if it a huge undertaking and not "idiot-proof" as the AR's, i'll stay away. thank you. I saw the ads in the current "shotgun news" and I was just curious. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed