First chink in the armour: VZ58. Reassure me.

[Pond, James Pond]

Rookie error. Whilst I scrutinised every inch of the 3 rifles before me looking at the finish on the bolt, the reset on the trigger, I over-looked possibly the most important part: the crown.

In fairness, the crown looks fine, but two rlfling lands have "chinks" in their tips at the muzzle, right against the crown. I can't imagine that is good for accuracy or even the life of the barrel.



Am I right to be concerned?

Will it evolve into a problem?

Will my barrel suffer as a result?

Is its likely effect insignificant when compared to the inherent accuracy of a VZ58 and steel jacketed ammo?

Also nice to hear what others might do here...in my shoes!!

[marine6680]

Hmm... I would have a chat with the owner of the gun shop.

I can not tell you what the future holds for that barrel, but I would raise concerns with the shop owner.

[CarJunkieLS1]

Is there a burr where the dings in the rifling are? If not its fine. If there is a slight burr I'd shoot it and see what happens. No real way to say for sure.

For some context I have a Rem 700 Classic in 8x57 mauser. I got it for a little of nothing because the original owner shot surplus ammo in it. That was over 10 years ago and he didn't clean the barrel. It was obviously corrosive and made a big mess of the bore. He sold to me for pennies on the dollar because the bore looked so bad. I shot it with PPU ammo and it's a 2" shooter. I'm positive it would be better with better ammo or handloads.

Long story short shoot it and see what happens.

[Pond, James Pond]

I've emailed the guy who served me in the shop I bought it from to see what he suggests.

I'll be honest. I'm a bit gutted....

Maybe that is why it is a fifth of the price of ARs.

[marine6680]

It looks like the actual lands are damaged if I am seeing it correctly.

It will probably shoot fine, but it will likely have degraded accuracy potential. It could be minor or not.

It would serve as a military rifle just fine. It would serve in a defensive role fine as well. But if you need to be a bit precise at 300m for competition reasons, it may be lacking.

Then again, it may group well enough to not be an issue for you.


I have no way of knowing how it will affect barrel life.


If the shop is staffed with upstanding types, they should hopefully take it back and transfer another one to you in its stead.

[Pond, James Pond]

It looks like the actual lands are damaged if I am seeing it correctly.

Yes, that is what appears to be the case.

If the shop is staffed with upstanding types, they should hopefully take it back and transfer another one to you in its stead.

Now that the rifle is registered in my name it's not that easy. I'd have to transfer it back to them then reapply for a buyer's permit and then re-register the new one. All that is a fresh €60.

I'd be happy if they sent it to CZ to be recrowned or rebarrelled though.
Have to wait and see what they suggest. The fact these guns are last of the line doesn't help.

Getting more gutted by the minute. Here I am trying to choose the best ammo to protect a rifle and it's already got significant barrel wear/damage straight from the factory.

[Targa]

I can understand your frustration. Hopefully it can get sent back and made right for you.

[Mobuck]

"He sold to me for pennies on the dollar because the bore looked so bad. I shot it with PPU ammo and it's a 2" shooter."

There's a world of difference between a pitted bore and a buggered crown.

[peggysue]

Re-Crown the barrel. Simple thing to do. Might help your 1000M shots.

[rickyrick]

I've never had that experience, only pitted bores (which had no ill effect), but I agree with the others to have it recrowned.

I feel your frustration because buying the gun seems to be more complicated than here.

[HiBC]

It does look like cleaning rod damage,and,likely isolated to the first 8 mm or so.

Yes.I think that could effect accuracy. But,lets take a breath here.You got the rifle for pennies on the dollar? OK.

IF the rifling were undamaged,what would TYPICAL accuracy be with that rifle?? I know nothing,but may I assume it is a well executed ,high quality AK variant? I'm not sure those have the accuracy potential of a CZ bolt gun.

I'm suggesting you begin with a reasonable expectation.

Then,a remedy: I have a precision toolmaker angle plate with a vertical Vee-groove up the face.I can bolt that down on a Bridgeport mill table,with the vee hanging off the mill table.Then I can hang the barreled upper receiver vertical in that vee groove,over the side of the table.With a Bridgeport type verticsl knee mill,often the ram and head can be repositioned to be over the side of the table..Then I could use a dial indicator and a pin gage to center over the barrel.

Now I can simple counterbore the damage out of the barrel.You may follow your own technical ideas I might consider using a carbide ball mill,about 7/16 in,or 11 mm.Or I might modify a square end millto approx. 11 deg with a diamond wheel.I would not get too wound up in the optimum form.A #4 60 deg center drill would work.For the chrome,go carbide

Shooting through a flash hider or muzzle brake is not so different than shooting through a counterbore. Some folks run a 7/16 or 11mm hole through a standard GI M4 AR type flash hider for accuracy.

There are advantages to NOT shortening the overall length of the barrel.One might be how your front sight band mounts.

Another (in USA) might be a 16 in minimum barrel length.

Now,If a milling machine is impossible,a piloted reamer could work,by hand,with a tap wrench.In USA,I'm sure Pacific Tool and Guage could fix you up.
A boring head with a small crbide boring bar can be used.
Now,enough with the buyers remorse!!.It can be fixed!! Enjoy your rifle!!

One more thing.If a machinist helps you to counterbore your barrel,Ask him to make you a nice sleeve that will slip into the counterbore and protect you bore from the cleaning rod.I suggest it be made large enough that it is obvious when in place.No bore obstruction kaboom!

[reynolds357]

This is quite common in military rifles. Counterbore it.

[Mobuck]

"Counterbore it."
The only economical solution.

[barnbwt]

Looks like the sharp ends of the lands were broken off; cause is likely the uneven joint of steel cleaning rods being slammed over them by some idiot trainee (or previous owner). Damage is likely limited to the very end, and a counterbore is the most preferable remedy in terms of cost & benefit. Some may even cut the barrel down since this is not much harder, and it's not like the extra portion of tube past the counterbore is good for anything (other than preserving threads or the front sight location, or meeting overall length requirements)

"IF the rifling were undamaged,what would TYPICAL accuracy be with that rifle?? I know nothing,but may I assume it is a well executed ,high quality AK variant? I'm not sure those have the accuracy potential of a CZ bolt gun."
The VZ58 is more like an SKS than an AK, the only commonality is the chambering and a vague resemblance as far as the silhouette. The chrome-liined barrels are actually rather decent and shoot better than most garden-variety AKs, though it is still limited by the pencil profile, short sight radius, primitive sights, and non-bore-centric locking lug arrangement. The rather small size of the gun itself (and especially its furniture) also makes accurate shooting with the sights more difficult.

All that said, the guns are built nicer than practically all AKs (or is it just plain all AKs?) and deserve to have a decent quality crown

Mr. Pond, I'd suggest having the smith counterbore the muzzle; it's not a big deal at all, a common armory repair, and inexpensive. First, I'd shoot the thing to see what kind of impact the damage has on your accuracy (you may be lucky and the damage is symmetrical enough to not drastically effect accuracy). I'd be happy with around 4MOA from your gun, though, maybe 3MOA with a nicer crown.

Oh yeah, and don't be like the last idiot and use jointed rods to clean the bore; invest in a nice single-piece brass or polished steel or polymer rod and/or a bore guide (temporary undersized muzzle cap that protects the edges of the crown from the cleaning rod)

TCB

[rickyrick]

I'd add, for curiosity and maybe some scientific value is to go ahead and get some groups in on this rifle. Then you will have a baseline on any future alterations of the gun.

After repairs group it again.

[marine6680]

Yeah, a counterbore would be a good solution if the shop can do nothing. Keep the threads intact that way.


This is a new rifle, so I don't think its from a cleaning rod... Unless this was made using a surplus barrel.

[Pond, James Pond]

As I pointed out in my more specific smithery thread, I can happily live with a counterbore job on it.

It wasn't even the accuracy as this is, indeed, not a CZ550 Varmint and I did not expect it to be. It was the degree to which this might affect serviceable barrel life. After all, I bought this rifle as a potential "lifer", if laws get passed to prevent semi-autos being bought in the future.

I've reluctantly accepted that steel-cased ammo is probably unavoidable but now this too? Something out there is trying to trash my barrel life before I've even started!!

Oh yeah, and don't be like the last idiot and use jointed rods to clean the bore; invest in a nice single-piece brass

Had one for a while!!

[Unclenick]

Barrel life is mainly a matter of the throat condition. If you have a borescope you can check the throat that way. Otherwise, a chamber cast may be called for.

The rifling damage at the crown is likely to throw bullets off a straight line, but if the loads are consistent, the error may all tend to the same location as the imparted lateral drift would always have the same direction. So it may well have normal, if off-axis life. If you try to shoot cast bullets through it, though, you will get some varying degrees of bullet unbalancing from gas cutting at those sites, so cast bullet accuracy is not likely to be good without a repair. Counterboring will fix it.

[barnbwt]

It wasn't even the accuracy as this is, indeed, not a CZ550 Varmint and I did not expect it to be. It was the degree to which this might affect serviceable barrel life. After all, I bought this rifle as a potential "lifer", if laws get passed to prevent semi-autos being bought in the future.

Are spare barrels considered 'firearms' where you live?

[Pond, James Pond]

Are spare barrels considered 'firearms' where you live?

I'd have to check, but I think so because it could be used to launch a projectile. The problem arises if it is indeed considered a firearm as this means that I'd be over storage limits to buy it!

Can you imagine I'd have to sell a gun to make space for a barrel for a gun I've just bought!!

For example, I could not buy a Kadet kit for my SP-01 because it is considered a firearm in its own right.

Either way a permit to buy is needed.

[doofus47]

I had a Mosin-Nagant that was counter-bored by about an inch and a half. It shot pretty well.

I say this only to counter the oft-made assertion that counter-boring ruins a rifle's accuracy. I'd say if you could get CZ (preferable) or the seller to counter-bore, you'll probably be good to go. 7.62x39 is the classic intermediate round, so you probably won't notice the gain/loss of MOA over 300-400 yards.

Exec summary: your situation is not end-of-world bad; counter-boring will probably be the best solution.

[Model12Win]

Counter-boring is to FIX a rifle's accuracy, that's the whole point of it!

Various dumb dumbs don't understand this in internet land. They claim that counterbored guns are somehow not as good as a rifle with an intact crown. Well look at the OP's crown! It's intact, and I bet it'll do that little trick where a bullet inserted into it will stop short of the cartridge neck. I bet it will, and I bet it won't group well either!

There is nothing wrong with a counterbored rifle, and nothing wrong with counterboring a rifle with obvious damage to the muzzle.

[Pond, James Pond]

Today I met the gunsmith. He must be about 65-70 so experienced may be appropriate!

I also learnt something new about the VZs over here. As I've said these rifles are very cheap by local market standards and even by the VZ 2008 standards in the US.

Today I found out why...
It seems that these are ex-military barrels fitted to semi-auto'ed receivers. In other words the barrels are used and there's no way of knowing how many rounds have been down the pipe... This sheds some light as to why the barrel might have left the factory the way it did.

To be fair, the rifling still looks very sharp (peering down the muzzle) and this same gunsmith is going to bring a bore-cam to the shop tomorrow to have a look at how things are. I guess the telling will be the throat.

Not sure how I feel about it all.

I mean they are super cheap and they are very good rifles and they are built to last and everyone keeps telling me they last, and, and, and...
Then I remember this may be my one and only semi-auto... So mixed feelings at this point.

That said, I am pretty pragmatic in such situations and I hope to get this rifle to run as well as it can. How remains to be seen.

[dakota.potts]

Pond,
if it makes you feel better, many American AK builders go to extra lengths to get possession of surplus military barrels which are now very difficult to import into the US. Some of the surplus barrels are both hammer forged and chrome lined which makes them very desirable. Since yours is chrome lined, assuming it has decent rifling, it might still be in better shape than our domestic VZ58 barrels which are made by Green Mountain (referencing the Century VZ2008 models)

[DPris]

I would not own that rifle as it sits.
What you do about it in your circumstances is up to you.
Denis