You come out of a WalMart and ......... - Page 4

markj · July 31, 2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

If a child was choking on a piece of candy, would you sit back and take notes

That piece of candy wont arrest me or kill me, besides I am CPR and First Aid certed. Apples to oranges. Each situation is different, each response is different. Do as you will, just dont go shooting at people without making sure of who you are shooting at.

Quote:

When, Markj, you say most will wet their pants - how do you know? From experience?

When I was shot outside of my Dads bar (bouncer) I didnt pee myself, no, I rolled under a truck and got away from him, I was unarmed as Nebr had no CCW and I was working at a bar. How about you? Manly man. I was also stuck in the backl of my neck with a knife, I took it and kept it. Why you should see some of the items I took away from manly men

a sawed off 12 ga once, handed it over to the cops tho. How many have you disarmed so far?

A gun battle isnt a trip dowm fun lane, anyone that thinks it will be a walk in the park will find themselves dead real quick.

If I was in a school, I would be unarmed, if I was cornered, I would try to fight my way out, this is instinctual and this will kick in when you are confronted by this type of horror, unless you train and train hard. I have heard stories from my 2 cop cousins, I realize I am not a cop, nor a super hero. I am not out to fight crime or become a mall ninja. I can defend myself, but I dont go out looking for trouble.

kids should stay off mommies PC. Dont play with guns either, they are not toys.

Capt. Charlie · July 31, 2007, 04:25 PM

Some of you folks are taking this way too personal. Suggest you count to ten in at least one language, lest a countdown of another sort commence

.

mattro · July 31, 2007, 06:04 PM

If wanting to intervene (help someone) makes us a bunch of kids, then being a pacifist automatically means you are over 50? or over 65?

zeroskillz · August 1, 2007, 10:19 AM

If I was by myself, I'd run.
If I was with my family, I'd grab a kid, get the wife to do the same, and run.

My responsibility is to my family first, and that means not only protecting them if I'm able, but not getting dead as well.

'Course, if I walked out of Wallmart and heard gunshots, I'm sure my first reaction would be to look and stare while my brain tries to compute....

Glenn E. Meyer · August 1, 2007, 12:57 PM

Perhaps I was overboard in responded to what I thought was ill founded inflammatory rhetoric by MarkJ.

My point is this:

Have we really seen a significant number of innocents shot by CCW permit holders in intervention incidents?

I say - we have not. We have had a few well publicized bad tactics from CCW types - Tyler and the mall - but one can find numerous successful interventions.

The argument against intervention usually has not be based on performance but on self-centered liability issues or fears that getting hurt will take you away from your family responsibilities.

Thus, in a less insulting manner, I still find Markj's statement without basis in fact.

markj · August 1, 2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

I still find Markj's statement without basis in fact.

May I ask which statement? I have made a couple here.

My take is this. Sometimes things are not as they appear, so be absolutly sure before firing any weapon. This is the simplified version.

I do not carry a gun these days, I do not fear anyone. I say this too, a smile at the corect time will do wonders.

Glen, I just re read this thread, I posted not one thing to you, yet you posted this:

Quote:

When, Markj, you say most will wet their pants - how do you know? From experience?

Who is being inflamatory here bud? I have no time for playing wit hall you youngins, gotta get some work done and this is a dead end thread. No one was there, so how can anyone say how they would act or react? Get serious now and quit using yer emotions as a backdrop. I would hate to see or read about anyone getting shot up period.

Glenn E. Meyer · August 2, 2007, 10:21 AM

CCW was in a mall, guy was shooting up the place, CCW guy pulled and got close, he couldnt pull the trigger when it came time, he was shot up. Shooting a man isnt like standing at a range and throwing lead at a paper target. Some cant even pull on a deer, seen it happen many times in real life. Face to face, eye to eye, most will wet their pants and get shot when it comes time to look the BG in his face. You must be a big man to want to do this, or maybe crazy. You get shot once, may change yer mind.

I don't think the statement that most will wet their pants in this paragraph is supported by what we know of the history of CCW permit holders. The mall intervener is a vivid instance where he tried to help but failed to protect himself. The gentleman who stopped the woman burner was successful. The assistant principal who stopped the school shooter from escaping was successful.

I don't think we have a list of interventions where the CCW permit holder consistently has failed or endangered anyone.

While this list is full of bluster at times, I don't think the general impulse to save deserving innocents is an indication of madness.

It is the great conundrum of the CCW movement - be a sheepdog vs. run for your life and be a good witness.

No one says to be a fool vigilante over trivia. But faced with real horror, someone is not to be faulted for thinking of oneself and avoiding the fight, but they are not to be faulted for trying to help.

markj · August 3, 2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

I don't think the statement that most will wet their pants in this paragraph is supported by what we know of the history of CCW permit holders.

Some do know how to handle a weapon, most on internet forums tho I question their abilities. Dont know em, havent shot with them.

Years ago, 4 guys come into the bar with one gal, a mexican guy was passed out his head on a table, his gal was sitting there waiting for him to wake up keeping to herself. The guys were taunting her then one tried to take her out of the bar, I wasnt there yet, a few customers intervened, the guys went out and came back in with guns. A shootout occured, no CCW in Nebr but there was 6 or 7 different calibers from the slugs I dug out of the walls, over 40 rounds were fired. Citizens stood up, BGs got shot up. BArtender quit on the spot, I had to go in and close for her. I am not saying heroic deeds cannot be done, I question those that publically state "I would do such and such" etc. How do they know what they will do until it happens?

Kids on the internet. Some of these scenarios are laffable at the very least.

Texpatriate · August 6, 2007, 01:39 PM

..."what would you do?"

with my kid present (such as the witness's situation) I'd have run like hell with my kid in tow. I'm not going to interject myself into a potentially deadly situation with my 2 year old. Anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or full of it. If a criminal approaches ME or my family then that's a different story. Best policy would be to mind your own business and get the heck out of there when your kids are involved. Just my $.02.

July 31, 2007, 04:25 PM	#77
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Some of you folks are taking this way too personal. Suggest you count to ten in at least one language, lest a countdown of another sort commence . __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

July 31, 2007, 06:04 PM	#78
mattro Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 224	If wanting to intervene (help someone) makes us a bunch of kids, then being a pacifist automatically means you are over 50? or over 65? __________________ My Battle Rifle has no sporting purpose.

August 1, 2007, 12:57 PM	#80
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Perhaps I was overboard in responded to what I thought was ill founded inflammatory rhetoric by MarkJ. My point is this: Have we really seen a significant number of innocents shot by CCW permit holders in intervention incidents? I say - we have not. We have had a few well publicized bad tactics from CCW types - Tyler and the mall - but one can find numerous successful interventions. The argument against intervention usually has not be based on performance but on self-centered liability issues or fears that getting hurt will take you away from your family responsibilities. Thus, in a less insulting manner, I still find Markj's statement without basis in fact. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

August 2, 2007, 10:21 AM	#82
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	CCW was in a mall, guy was shooting up the place, CCW guy pulled and got close, he couldnt pull the trigger when it came time, he was shot up. Shooting a man isnt like standing at a range and throwing lead at a paper target. Some cant even pull on a deer, seen it happen many times in real life. Face to face, eye to eye, most will wet their pants and get shot when it comes time to look the BG in his face. You must be a big man to want to do this, or maybe crazy. You get shot once, may change yer mind. I don't think the statement that most will wet their pants in this paragraph is supported by what we know of the history of CCW permit holders. The mall intervener is a vivid instance where he tried to help but failed to protect himself. The gentleman who stopped the woman burner was successful. The assistant principal who stopped the school shooter from escaping was successful. I don't think we have a list of interventions where the CCW permit holder consistently has failed or endangered anyone. While this list is full of bluster at times, I don't think the general impulse to save deserving innocents is an indication of madness. It is the great conundrum of the CCW movement - be a sheepdog vs. run for your life and be a good witness. No one says to be a fool vigilante over trivia. But faced with real horror, someone is not to be faulted for thinking of oneself and avoiding the fight, but they are not to be faulted for trying to help. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

August 6, 2007, 01:39 PM	#84
Texpatriate Junior Member Join Date: August 1, 2006 Location: Saint Louis Posts: 11	As pertaining to the OP's question... ..."what would you do?" with my kid present (such as the witness's situation) I'd have run like hell with my kid in tow. I'm not going to interject myself into a potentially deadly situation with my 2 year old. Anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or full of it. If a criminal approaches ME or my family then that's a different story. Best policy would be to mind your own business and get the heck out of there when your kids are involved. Just my $.02.

August 1, 2007, 10:19 AM	#79
zeroskillz Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 153	If I was by myself, I'd run. If I was with my family, I'd grab a kid, get the wife to do the same, and run. My responsibility is to my family first, and that means not only protecting them if I'm able, but not getting dead as well. 'Course, if I walked out of Wallmart and heard gunshots, I'm sure my first reaction would be to look and stare while my brain tries to compute....