Resizing used 308 brass

Cheap 870 · December 19, 2012, 07:12 PM

I just bought 100 used 308 brass head stamped WRA.
When I went to resize them they won't go in my die.
They're getting stuck. And yes I am lubeing the cases correctly.
I'm thinking they were fired in a gun with a big chamber.
Has anyone else ever had this problem?

m&p45acp10+1 · December 19, 2012, 07:35 PM

They may be fire formed for a wild cat chamber.

If they are sticking clean your sizing die very well, and you may need a different lube.

There are small base dies though I am not sure how they work on bloated brass. I know that they bump the shoulder back a tad bit more to help with chambering in semi auto guns.

5R milspec · December 19, 2012, 07:51 PM

Give us some specs to the brass said above.Better yet takes measurements of the said brass,then some you know that works.Then you should find out to what the problem is.

This is why I do not buy used brass,for you never know to what it may or not be.Finding it at the range is a different story.My range is limited to who gets to use it,so I know who left it.

Cheap 870 · December 19, 2012, 08:45 PM

It's defenetly to big. I'm probably just gonna sell it & get new.

wncchester · December 19, 2012, 10:01 PM

"They're getting stuck. And yes I am lubeing the cases correctly."

Wanta bet on that? I've reformed a lot of GI .30-06 to .243 and your cases and dies are for the same cartridge so your's is MUCH simpler! It's proper lube properly applied that makes it all work.

Cheap 870 · December 20, 2012, 07:30 AM

Tried again & guess what a stuck case.
I can't believe that I can't do something " much simpler "

And yes I took the die apart & cleaned before I tried again.
About half way between the shoulder & base it's mic'n at .469, at the base .475, just below the shoulder .463.
The inside of my die is mic'n at .459, at about a little over 1/2" in the die.

Cheap 870 · December 20, 2012, 07:41 AM

I don't know how well you can see in the pic's but every case has a dent in the same spot.

Kevin Rohrer · December 20, 2012, 09:01 AM

Does the brass have the NATO symbol on the bottom? Brass fired in a machine gun are a bear to resize.

Cheap 870 · December 20, 2012, 09:13 AM

Heres a couple of pic's
Looks like a circle with an x in it.

Jimro · December 20, 2012, 09:40 AM

You need to anneal the necks and shoulders, then lube inside and out. If that doesn't make resizing easier and stop the "getting stuck" I don't know what will.

Jimro

243winxb · December 20, 2012, 11:42 AM

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Winchester.pdf .475" at the base? If you mean the web area, that too big. Normal dies dont size down that far. Plus your die seems on the tight side. Just a quick guess.

F. Guffey · December 20, 2012, 12:09 PM

Just thinking, is it possible the jump back, snap back or spring back was left out of the case when it was made? Is it possible the first time the case was fired all the memory was hammered out of the case?

There are not many dies I do not have, my favorite forming/trim die is the 308 W, if I had one forming die it would be the 308W, if I had two the second forming die would be the 243 W forming die, not possible to explain the rational in 10 words or less. Again, it is always “’musta’ been fired in a machine gun”, there is KB, Kudda Been fired 10 times, the case could present more resistance to sizing that the press can overcome, for me? not a problem, when sizing a case I can determine if the ram shoved the case into the die, if the case does not get shoved into the die, I can measure ‘by how much’ the amount of the case that did/does not get sized.

Then there are presses, I have presses, one press was advertised as having ‘no flex’ from the beginning, Then there is reducing the deck height of the shell holder to increase the presses ability to overcome sizing resistance.

F. Guffey

Marco Califo · December 20, 2012, 12:14 PM

Where did you get that brass?
All military 308 is likely to be M-60/M240 machine gun fired. 30 caliber machine guns are the only widely used 308 weapons in the US military today. Don't try to tell me the M-14 is widely used.
This brass is tough to resize. Try these techniques, if the brass came from a reliable source. If not from a reliable source, you are on your own.
Either deprime with a decapper die, and decrimp (many ways and tools to do this) or buy with the primer pocket already processed. and
1. Lube: I have found that White Lithium grease made by Lucas Oil available at Home Depot works great and makes sizing these much easier.
2. Die: remove the neck expander mechanism, and body size only. When I do this, I neck size later with a Lee collet neck sizer die.
3. Annealing: Would help make the brass more workable, but I have not had to do this for the initial resizing.

F. Guffey · December 20, 2012, 12:22 PM

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Winchester.pdf .475" at the base? If you mean the web area, that too big. Normal dies does not size down that far. Plus your die seems on the tight side. Just a quick guess.

The shell holder has a deck height, the deck height of a shell holder is .125”, then there is the radius at the opening of the die to be added.

'’.475" at the base?'’ Measure before and again after, forget that, the cases were purchases as having been fired, if in fact the case head is .475 in diameter and the cases have been fired once the additional .005”+ indicate the case head was hammered the first time it was fired, if the case has been fired multiple times the additional .005” upset/crush of the case head indicates case head is excessive, then there is the ‘everything being relative’ if the case head has expanded the primer pocket has been expanded and the flash hole has been expanded.

F. Guffey

oldpapps · December 20, 2012, 01:33 PM

I've only skimmed the responses, but I did look at the photos. So, I may repeat what has been said, sorry.

The brass looks to be military stuff, most likely shot in some type of full automatic machine gun, long loose chamber for reliable feeding and funtion. The ding is from the ejection and is not a problem (as seen in the photo).

I would start by tumbling the brass till it shines. This will clean any and all grit off. Inspect each case completely. This is when I would run a paper clip down inside to check the web. Any grittiness at the web and they are scrap brass.

Next up is to deprime. I have a Lee depriming die now. I have used a rod type tool to drive the crimped in primers out. Watch for the walls of the cup remaining in the brass. Now take care of the crimp ring. Lots of ways to do it. Lots of brass, use a tool. Few, use a knife to cut/scrape the ring away. Many tools and makers out there.

Moving on. LUBE! I use that nasty old grease stuff. It works great. Do a 'full case re-sizing'. Take your time and this is better done on a sturdy single stage press (over a progressive - you need lots of ram pressure). During this process, I have found that a hard scale of powder residue sometimes cracks on the inside of the brass. I now clean the sized brass. I use a mix of Dawn soap and water in a tumbler of steel pins. After tumbling for a day (I often forget the tumbler is running), a good flush with clean water. I dry brass on an old towel (to pick them up with) places on cookie sheets. Places in a pre heated over at 200 or 250 degrees. Put the brass/cookie sheets in, turn off the heat. When the oven is cool, the brass is dry.

Now check/trim for proper length. After cleaning up the trimmed mouths, the brass is done. If you wish to anneal the brass, do so.

I like military brass. After being possessed this way the first time, treat it like all other brass. Sort by head types and load

Enjoy and be safe,

OSOK

William T. Watts · December 20, 2012, 02:14 PM

Guffy's right, if the web is .475" the primer pocket and flash hole are expanded, I would recycle and not try to pass them on to someone else. Since the cases have the Nato cross they could have been fired in a machine gun.. IMO if brass is .308 and has a military or Nato cross H/Stamp I wouldn't buy the brass without a micrometer to check the expansion ring/web area first. William

5R milspec · December 20, 2012, 05:50 PM

Mr.Guffy yu da man

wncchester · December 20, 2012, 08:48 PM

Cases don't get stuck in dies because of insufficent lube on and in the necks. Cases ONLY get stuck because of insufficient or improper lube on the lower, thicker part.

medalguy · December 20, 2012, 11:00 PM

Yup. ^^^ I've resized and loaded many, many thousands of rounds of M60 and minigun 7.62 ammo. And yes I have gotten a few cases stuck, but those were all my fault for not using Imperial lube soon enough. I have sized probably 100,000 rounds of 7.62 since I started using Imperial, and not one single stuck case.

Yes MG fired brass can be tough to size, but I do it all the time. Now I deprime with an RCBS Universal deprimer, and get no broken punches. Nada. Then I resize them on a Rockchucker using Imperial lube, trim if needed, and then swage primer pockets. Finally I tumble the brass clean, prime and seat bullets. Problems of any kind are virtually zero.

December 19, 2012, 07:12 PM	#1
Cheap 870 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 159	Resizing used 308 brass I just bought 100 used 308 brass head stamped WRA. When I went to resize them they won't go in my die. They're getting stuck. And yes I am lubeing the cases correctly. I'm thinking they were fired in a gun with a big chamber. Has anyone else ever had this problem?

December 19, 2012, 07:35 PM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	They may be fire formed for a wild cat chamber. If they are sticking clean your sizing die very well, and you may need a different lube. There are small base dies though I am not sure how they work on bloated brass. I know that they bump the shoulder back a tad bit more to help with chambering in semi auto guns. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

December 19, 2012, 07:51 PM	#3
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	Give us some specs to the brass said above.Better yet takes measurements of the said brass,then some you know that works.Then you should find out to what the problem is. This is why I do not buy used brass,for you never know to what it may or not be.Finding it at the range is a different story.My range is limited to who gets to use it,so I know who left it. __________________ life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet.

December 20, 2012, 09:01 AM	#8
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	Does the brass have the NATO symbol on the bottom? Brass fired in a machine gun are a bear to resize. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

December 20, 2012, 09:40 AM	#10
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	You need to anneal the necks and shoulders, then lube inside and out. If that doesn't make resizing easier and stop the "getting stuck" I don't know what will. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 19, 2012, 08:45 PM	#4
Cheap 870 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 159	It's defenetly to big. I'm probably just gonna sell it & get new.

December 19, 2012, 10:01 PM	#5
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"They're getting stuck. And yes I am lubeing the cases correctly." Wanta bet on that? I've reformed a lot of GI .30-06 to .243 and your cases and dies are for the same cartridge so your's is MUCH simpler! It's proper lube properly applied that makes it all work.

December 20, 2012, 07:30 AM	#6
Cheap 870 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 159	Tried again & guess what a stuck case. I can't believe that I can't do something " much simpler " And yes I took the die apart & cleaned before I tried again. About half way between the shoulder & base it's mic'n at .469, at the base .475, just below the shoulder .463. The inside of my die is mic'n at .459, at about a little over 1/2" in the die.

December 20, 2012, 11:42 AM	#11
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Compare your brass to SAAMI measurements at link. http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Winchester.pdf .475" at the base? If you mean the web area, that too big. Normal dies dont size down that far. Plus your die seems on the tight side. Just a quick guess.

December 20, 2012, 12:09 PM	#12
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Just thinking, is it possible the jump back, snap back or spring back was left out of the case when it was made? Is it possible the first time the case was fired all the memory was hammered out of the case? There are not many dies I do not have, my favorite forming/trim die is the 308 W, if I had one forming die it would be the 308W, if I had two the second forming die would be the 243 W forming die, not possible to explain the rational in 10 words or less. Again, it is always “’musta’ been fired in a machine gun”, there is KB, Kudda Been fired 10 times, the case could present more resistance to sizing that the press can overcome, for me? not a problem, when sizing a case I can determine if the ram shoved the case into the die, if the case does not get shoved into the die, I can measure ‘by how much’ the amount of the case that did/does not get sized. Then there are presses, I have presses, one press was advertised as having ‘no flex’ from the beginning, Then there is reducing the deck height of the shell holder to increase the presses ability to overcome sizing resistance. F. Guffey

December 20, 2012, 12:14 PM	#13
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,596	Where did you get that brass? All military 308 is likely to be M-60/M240 machine gun fired. 30 caliber machine guns are the only widely used 308 weapons in the US military today. Don't try to tell me the M-14 is widely used. This brass is tough to resize. Try these techniques, if the brass came from a reliable source. If not from a reliable source, you are on your own. Either deprime with a decapper die, and decrimp (many ways and tools to do this) or buy with the primer pocket already processed. and 1. Lube: I have found that White Lithium grease made by Lucas Oil available at Home Depot works great and makes sizing these much easier. 2. Die: remove the neck expander mechanism, and body size only. When I do this, I neck size later with a Lee collet neck sizer die. 3. Annealing: Would help make the brass more workable, but I have not had to do this for the initial resizing. __________________ ............ Last edited by Marco Califo; December 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM.

December 20, 2012, 12:22 PM	#14
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...Winchester.pdf .475" at the base? If you mean the web area, that too big. Normal dies does not size down that far. Plus your die seems on the tight side. Just a quick guess. The shell holder has a deck height, the deck height of a shell holder is .125”, then there is the radius at the opening of the die to be added. '’.475" at the base?'’ Measure before and again after, forget that, the cases were purchases as having been fired, if in fact the case head is .475 in diameter and the cases have been fired once the additional .005”+ indicate the case head was hammered the first time it was fired, if the case has been fired multiple times the additional .005” upset/crush of the case head indicates case head is excessive, then there is the ‘everything being relative’ if the case head has expanded the primer pocket has been expanded and the flash hole has been expanded. F. Guffey

December 20, 2012, 01:33 PM	#15
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	I've only skimmed the responses, but I did look at the photos. So, I may repeat what has been said, sorry. The brass looks to be military stuff, most likely shot in some type of full automatic machine gun, long loose chamber for reliable feeding and funtion. The ding is from the ejection and is not a problem (as seen in the photo). I would start by tumbling the brass till it shines. This will clean any and all grit off. Inspect each case completely. This is when I would run a paper clip down inside to check the web. Any grittiness at the web and they are scrap brass. Next up is to deprime. I have a Lee depriming die now. I have used a rod type tool to drive the crimped in primers out. Watch for the walls of the cup remaining in the brass. Now take care of the crimp ring. Lots of ways to do it. Lots of brass, use a tool. Few, use a knife to cut/scrape the ring away. Many tools and makers out there. Moving on. LUBE! I use that nasty old grease stuff. It works great. Do a 'full case re-sizing'. Take your time and this is better done on a sturdy single stage press (over a progressive - you need lots of ram pressure). During this process, I have found that a hard scale of powder residue sometimes cracks on the inside of the brass. I now clean the sized brass. I use a mix of Dawn soap and water in a tumbler of steel pins. After tumbling for a day (I often forget the tumbler is running), a good flush with clean water. I dry brass on an old towel (to pick them up with) places on cookie sheets. Places in a pre heated over at 200 or 250 degrees. Put the brass/cookie sheets in, turn off the heat. When the oven is cool, the brass is dry. Now check/trim for proper length. After cleaning up the trimmed mouths, the brass is done. If you wish to anneal the brass, do so. I like military brass. After being possessed this way the first time, treat it like all other brass. Sort by head types and load Enjoy and be safe, OSOK

December 20, 2012, 02:14 PM	#16
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Guffy's right, if the web is .475" the primer pocket and flash hole are expanded, I would recycle and not try to pass them on to someone else. Since the cases have the Nato cross they could have been fired in a machine gun.. IMO if brass is .308 and has a military or Nato cross H/Stamp I wouldn't buy the brass without a micrometer to check the expansion ring/web area first. William

December 20, 2012, 05:50 PM	#17
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	Mr.Guffy yu da man __________________ life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet.

December 20, 2012, 08:48 PM	#18
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Cases don't get stuck in dies because of insufficent lube on and in the necks. Cases ONLY get stuck because of insufficient or improper lube on the lower, thicker part.

December 20, 2012, 11:00 PM	#19
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	Yup. ^^^ I've resized and loaded many, many thousands of rounds of M60 and minigun 7.62 ammo. And yes I have gotten a few cases stuck, but those were all my fault for not using Imperial lube soon enough. I have sized probably 100,000 rounds of 7.62 since I started using Imperial, and not one single stuck case. Yes MG fired brass can be tough to size, but I do it all the time. Now I deprime with an RCBS Universal deprimer, and get no broken punches. Nada. Then I resize them on a Rockchucker using Imperial lube, trim if needed, and then swage primer pockets. Finally I tumble the brass clean, prime and seat bullets. Problems of any kind are virtually zero.

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