Home Defense Reality

Gary H · June 5, 2000, 11:24 AM

I recently purchased a Remington 870 in the non-pistol grip "Home Defense" configuration. It will sit in my bedroom and may possibly shoot three gun at some point. Home use,in California, means close quarters. I figure that I need a light, sling, sidesaddle shotshell holder and possibly a magazine extension.

I have been happy with my TacStar 2000 on my Carbon 15. For $67.00 it seems to be an economical option. Has anyone tried this light on their shotgun? It would take a much greater beating on a shotgun.

Secondly, until I shoot three gun, it seems that the stock sights are just fine. Is there an advantage to buying a different sight system, such as the glowing Hi-Viz front sights? Will they mount on a gun without ribs? What advantage is provided by Ghost Ring in close quarters?

CMOS · June 5, 2000, 01:35 PM

Gary, I can't comment on the light but I will offer my opinon on the sights.

The best sights to have on a shotgun are "practice, practice and more practice". These "sights" will give you more on target hits than nay high-tech, glow-in-the-dark contraption on the market.

Learn to shoot "instinctively" without having to rely on the sights per se.

That's my .02...

CMOS

------------------
NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

jthuang · June 5, 2000, 02:09 PM

Yes, a Hi-Viz fiber optic will fit on a shotgun without a rib. My buddy's Winchester 1300 Defender has a Hi-Viz sight and no rib.

In CQC, I doubt that ghost rings have any real advantage over a bead, Hi-Viz or rifle sights. As long as you've got proper cheek weld, you are basically using the front sight as a bead anyway.

If, however, you anticipate firing at longer distances (B or C zone) or for USPSA Three Gun, where you will have to lob slugs at distant targets, some sort of sighting system that allows for precise placement of slugs is necessary. I like ghost rings as they are more durable (most ghost rings have protective "ears") than rifle sights.

No idea on the TacStar 2000, I use a Surefire Responder. But then again the Responder puts a hefty hole in your wallet.

Justin

------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

Gary H · June 5, 2000, 03:02 PM

Yes, practice is the key. In my area it is very difficult to find a legal location to shoot a shotgun. Having said that, I have been partaking of the practice side of things.

The light mentioned, as correctly deduced, was an attempt to get function without a large outlay of cash. It is supposedly built like the Surefire. I have a Surefire 9Z and it seems to be about the same quality. It is just that the shotgun is a rather violent beast. Maybe someone that has given it a try will happen upon the post. Ghost rings will go on if I try Three Gun.

Dave McC · June 6, 2000, 05:50 AM

Right now you have one of the most effective CQ weapons ever conceived by the mind of Man. 95% of effectiveness is fit and form, with the addons being one of the least important.
My HD 870 has darn near every accessory you can imagine. The mod list for my bird 870 consists of a lengthened forcing cone. Chances are, any situation I couldn't survive using the bird 870, I wouldn't make it through with the Loudenboomer SP.Or tactical nukes, for that matter.

Instead of bells,whistles, fender skirts and fuzzy dice, use the money for ammo and range time. After a few cases of ammo, a good school and/or some REALISTIC competition, you'll have a better idea of what that shotgun needs, besides TLC and cleaning.

Gary H · June 6, 2000, 10:42 AM

Dave McC:

Last night I happened upon your "Observations" post and found it to be very helpful.

I will probably never need to use my 870, but should I need to pull the gun out, my first interest is to dial 911 and lock my bedroom door. All of the fancy add-ons will not be of much use here.

The real issue for me is what happens if I am forced to venture out. Perhaps the real answer is that the shotgun may not be my best choice of weapons. My Carbon 15, with tactical light, is very light and has an effective muzzle break. It is easier to quickly move the barrel due to reduced inertia (less weight). The Hakko red-dot scope (perhaps a HD no no) is great at night and very easy to use with both eyes open.

I take these guys to the range on a regular basis and might do well to take a class, or two. The range does not allow "tactical" practice and so "practice" consists of somewhat static tasks, but I can practice the reload and such.

Erik · June 6, 2000, 12:07 PM

I really like ghost ring sights...but shooting across the bedroom doesn't require their instalation. For that matter, you don't need any of the common accessories mentioned in catalogs and even here. A hear gasps from the crowd- but it's true. (Of couse with that said, I like the accessories.)

Dave McC · June 6, 2000, 01:33 PM

Glad it helped you, Gary,lots of mis-info and myths out there,quicksands for the unwary(G).

Justin posted some pics of what looks like a fairtomiddlin' course of fire on another thread. It's rough training sometimes when no facilities will let you set up a course of fire like that.

OTOH,any firing of the shotgun recreationally has merit, even the stylized games like trap and skeet help one get used to handling THAT weapon.I've had periods when an 870 felt like a body part,and not a detachable tool.

As for what to use when "venturing out", it's a tough call. SO's figuring out just what calamity would call for such s scenario.
As for what I'd take in that situation, it might be the shotgun, that light little Winchester 30-30,and sidearm. Slung, the Model 94 could ride along at little weight penalty.

Maybe crossed ammo bandoliers, one 12 ga, one treinte-treinte,like the Frito Bandito(G)....

Dave McC · June 6, 2000, 11:15 PM

50 rounds of shotgun ammo would definitely qualify as "Ready", Erick.What ammo does he keep in it? My guess would be 10 slugs, 10 birdshot, 30 buck, probably 00.

Dr.Rob · June 7, 2000, 12:14 PM

man just crawl into your bunker where its safe and lock the doors...

cuz when the hordes of rampaging biker mutants come to my house.. I'm gonna treat like its halloween and give 'em breath mints.. right Dave?

Dave McC · June 7, 2000, 02:16 PM

A local smith some years ago sawed off a 10 ga Greener SXS and loaded up some 36 cal pistol balls in all brass cases and FFg powder. I didn't see him shoot the darn thing, but bet it was rather impressive. He had a belt of cartridges,and some for his Model 29.

Doc, be sure to do some patterning and see which mint works best for YOU(G)....

And I've known some bikers that could have used them...

Captain Bligh · June 7, 2000, 10:55 PM

Gary, I gotta ask. Why do you want a sling on a home defense gun?

It's not like you'll be lugging it a mile into the woods. If you need it, it will be in your hands not slung over your shoulder. If you feel like you must be armed in your house at all times as some here do, there are a lot lighter things to carry than a 12 ga. How about a nice litte 1911?

The logic escapes me. Inquiring minds want to know.

RJ

Gary H · June 8, 2000, 12:24 AM

Captain:

Point well taken. I figure that I will leave my shotgun as is and keep it for a locked bedroom.

Should I need to leave the bedroom to aid others in the house, then I will take my Glock, or Carbon 15.

Sling will be added should I enter into three gun competition.

Dave McC · June 8, 2000, 10:00 AM

Erick, the breath mint thing is based on a comment I've made that at HD ranges, shells loaded with breath mints would work. it comes back to haunt me periodically(G)...

Re slings, my HD 870 has none, tho it does have studs. My deer dedicated 870 wears one during the season, and it's taken off when the weapon shifts to HD backup the rest of the year. For me, the sling is just something to catch on stuff and complicate things at a time when I really don't need to have complications. But to each his/her own.

June 5, 2000, 11:24 AM	#1
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	I recently purchased a Remington 870 in the non-pistol grip "Home Defense" configuration. It will sit in my bedroom and may possibly shoot three gun at some point. Home use,in California, means close quarters. I figure that I need a light, sling, sidesaddle shotshell holder and possibly a magazine extension. I have been happy with my TacStar 2000 on my Carbon 15. For $67.00 it seems to be an economical option. Has anyone tried this light on their shotgun? It would take a much greater beating on a shotgun. Secondly, until I shoot three gun, it seems that the stock sights are just fine. Is there an advantage to buying a different sight system, such as the glowing Hi-Viz front sights? Will they mount on a gun without ribs? What advantage is provided by Ghost Ring in close quarters?

June 5, 2000, 01:35 PM	#2
CMOS Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 1999 Location: TEXAS Posts: 1,417	Gary, I can't comment on the light but I will offer my opinon on the sights. The best sights to have on a shotgun are "practice, practice and more practice". These "sights" will give you more on target hits than nay high-tech, glow-in-the-dark contraption on the market. Learn to shoot "instinctively" without having to rely on the sights per se. That's my .02... CMOS ------------------ NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

June 5, 2000, 02:09 PM	#3
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	Yes, a Hi-Viz fiber optic will fit on a shotgun without a rib. My buddy's Winchester 1300 Defender has a Hi-Viz sight and no rib. In CQC, I doubt that ghost rings have any real advantage over a bead, Hi-Viz or rifle sights. As long as you've got proper cheek weld, you are basically using the front sight as a bead anyway. If, however, you anticipate firing at longer distances (B or C zone) or for USPSA Three Gun, where you will have to lob slugs at distant targets, some sort of sighting system that allows for precise placement of slugs is necessary. I like ghost rings as they are more durable (most ghost rings have protective "ears") than rifle sights. No idea on the TacStar 2000, I use a Surefire Responder. But then again the Responder puts a hefty hole in your wallet. Justin ------------------ Justin T. Huang, Esq. late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

June 5, 2000, 03:02 PM	#4
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Yes, practice is the key. In my area it is very difficult to find a legal location to shoot a shotgun. Having said that, I have been partaking of the practice side of things. The light mentioned, as correctly deduced, was an attempt to get function without a large outlay of cash. It is supposedly built like the Surefire. I have a Surefire 9Z and it seems to be about the same quality. It is just that the shotgun is a rather violent beast. Maybe someone that has given it a try will happen upon the post. Ghost rings will go on if I try Three Gun.

June 6, 2000, 05:50 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Right now you have one of the most effective CQ weapons ever conceived by the mind of Man. 95% of effectiveness is fit and form, with the addons being one of the least important. My HD 870 has darn near every accessory you can imagine. The mod list for my bird 870 consists of a lengthened forcing cone. Chances are, any situation I couldn't survive using the bird 870, I wouldn't make it through with the Loudenboomer SP.Or tactical nukes, for that matter. Instead of bells,whistles, fender skirts and fuzzy dice, use the money for ammo and range time. After a few cases of ammo, a good school and/or some REALISTIC competition, you'll have a better idea of what that shotgun needs, besides TLC and cleaning.

June 6, 2000, 10:42 AM	#6
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Dave McC: Last night I happened upon your "Observations" post and found it to be very helpful. I will probably never need to use my 870, but should I need to pull the gun out, my first interest is to dial 911 and lock my bedroom door. All of the fancy add-ons will not be of much use here. The real issue for me is what happens if I am forced to venture out. Perhaps the real answer is that the shotgun may not be my best choice of weapons. My Carbon 15, with tactical light, is very light and has an effective muzzle break. It is easier to quickly move the barrel due to reduced inertia (less weight). The Hakko red-dot scope (perhaps a HD no no) is great at night and very easy to use with both eyes open. I take these guys to the range on a regular basis and might do well to take a class, or two. The range does not allow "tactical" practice and so "practice" consists of somewhat static tasks, but I can practice the reload and such.

June 6, 2000, 12:07 PM	#7
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	I really like ghost ring sights...but shooting across the bedroom doesn't require their instalation. For that matter, you don't need any of the common accessories mentioned in catalogs and even here. A hear gasps from the crowd- but it's true. (Of couse with that said, I like the accessories.)

June 6, 2000, 01:33 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Glad it helped you, Gary,lots of mis-info and myths out there,quicksands for the unwary(G). Justin posted some pics of what looks like a fairtomiddlin' course of fire on another thread. It's rough training sometimes when no facilities will let you set up a course of fire like that. OTOH,any firing of the shotgun recreationally has merit, even the stylized games like trap and skeet help one get used to handling THAT weapon.I've had periods when an 870 felt like a body part,and not a detachable tool. As for what to use when "venturing out", it's a tough call. SO's figuring out just what calamity would call for such s scenario. As for what I'd take in that situation, it might be the shotgun, that light little Winchester 30-30,and sidearm. Slung, the Model 94 could ride along at little weight penalty. Maybe crossed ammo bandoliers, one 12 ga, one treinte-treinte,like the Frito Bandito(G)....

June 6, 2000, 11:15 PM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	50 rounds of shotgun ammo would definitely qualify as "Ready", Erick.What ammo does he keep in it? My guess would be 10 slugs, 10 birdshot, 30 buck, probably 00.

June 7, 2000, 12:14 PM	#10
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	man just crawl into your bunker where its safe and lock the doors... cuz when the hordes of rampaging biker mutants come to my house.. I'm gonna treat like its halloween and give 'em breath mints.. right Dave?

June 7, 2000, 02:16 PM	#11
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	A local smith some years ago sawed off a 10 ga Greener SXS and loaded up some 36 cal pistol balls in all brass cases and FFg powder. I didn't see him shoot the darn thing, but bet it was rather impressive. He had a belt of cartridges,and some for his Model 29. Doc, be sure to do some patterning and see which mint works best for YOU(G).... And I've known some bikers that could have used them...

June 7, 2000, 10:55 PM	#12
Captain Bligh Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 453	Gary, I gotta ask. Why do you want a sling on a home defense gun? It's not like you'll be lugging it a mile into the woods. If you need it, it will be in your hands not slung over your shoulder. If you feel like you must be armed in your house at all times as some here do, there are a lot lighter things to carry than a 12 ga. How about a nice litte 1911? The logic escapes me. Inquiring minds want to know. RJ

June 8, 2000, 12:24 AM	#13
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Captain: Point well taken. I figure that I will leave my shotgun as is and keep it for a locked bedroom. Should I need to leave the bedroom to aid others in the house, then I will take my Glock, or Carbon 15. Sling will be added should I enter into three gun competition.

June 8, 2000, 10:00 AM	#14
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Erick, the breath mint thing is based on a comment I've made that at HD ranges, shells loaded with breath mints would work. it comes back to haunt me periodically(G)... Re slings, my HD 870 has none, tho it does have studs. My deer dedicated 870 wears one during the season, and it's taken off when the weapon shifts to HD backup the rest of the year. For me, the sling is just something to catch on stuff and complicate things at a time when I really don't need to have complications. But to each his/her own.