20 ga. Slug reloading

[Lavid2002]

I am just getting into casting. I figure if I can cast boolits I can cast slugs right? I have had my eye on a H&R Tracker 2 for a while now, I think I want a 20 Ga. slug gun for messing around with, and deer hunting. My questions are...

*What do you prefer 12 ga or 20 ga?

*What can I use for 20 ga slugs? A slug mold and a regular wad that would be used for shotshell...or do i need a special *Sabot* wad?

Thanks : D

-Dave

[Unclenick]

I prefer the 12 partly because I am used to it and partly because a lot more commercial loads are available for it. Lots of cheap stuff shows up in the fall for informal clay bird work, though slugs are not usually included in that economy category.

You don't need a sabot unless you want to shoot a reduced diameter projectile.

I believe Lyman has (or had) a 350 grain (0.8 ounce) 20 ga. mold? You might call them? Should be a good thumper.


Edit: The Lyman mold seems to be available at this place. I've not done business with them, but the drawings are clear so you can at least get a look. It's kind of like a giant airgun pellet, with a skirt that expands under pressure to engage rifling in a rifled slug gun barrel. It would not want a sabot around it if it is to do that? It might not even want a wad under it for most uniform skirt expansion and best accuracy? I can't imagine a wad jammed into the base with imperfect symmetry could help accuracy, but I've not loaded these myself and should let someone who has experience with them address that. Perhaps it is a good application for Puf-lon buffer or some such material?

[snuffy]

Dave, Nick has pointed you in the right direction. However, the Lyman sabot slug is made to load INSIDE a conventional shotshell wad. The wad acts like a sabot, imparting spin to the slug. Because the slug is shaped like a dart, with the heavy forward weight distribution, it will also work in a smoothbore.

If you decide to go 12 gauge, then Lee has a slug mold also. It's called the "key drive" slug. See it here, at the bottom of the linked page;

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...w.html#shotgun

It also works inside a shotcup, and will work in a smoothbore as well.

If you decide on 12 gauge, I have both the Lyman slug mold, and the Lee 7/8 key drive slug. I could and would be happy to send you enough of both to let you try them out.

[Lavid2002]

Cool guys thanks!

Thats a great offer, spending 70 bucks to try a shape out is pretty steep! I'll take you up on that should I get a 12 ga. I hear balistically the 20 ga is superior to the 12. It will be used for plinking at the range (Always wanted a slug gun with open irons, a light one) and deer hunting in the fall.

[Unclenick]

Snuffy,

Is that right? The skirt's just a conical fin. Not the finest idea for ballistic efficiency. But then, 100 yards is usually about as long a shot as people take with them. Thanks for the info.

[Lavid2002]

Is the lyman worth it honestly? I dont see how lee can make such a quality mold for pistol and auto at an affordable rate, yet have their shotgun molds be inaccurate... Doesnt make sense.

[snuffy]

Is the lyman worth it honestly? I don't see how lee can make such a quality mold for pistol and auto at an affordable rate, yet have their shotgun molds be inaccurate... Doesn't make sense.

The Lyman casts a much heavier slug, 525 grains. The Lee is 7/8 ounce, or one ounce, your choice. I believe that you DON'T need all that weight for close work with a shotgun, hence, my choice of the 7/8 ounce Lee.

As for the casting part, both molds will give you fits to use. The Lee has a captive hollow base pin that means you don't have to manually insert the pin for each cast. It works good, but is painfully slow. Sometimes the slug sticks to the base pin, you'll invent a few cuss words getting it to drop free.

The Lyman has a separate base pin that forms the hollow base. It has to be kept hot, and be inserted into the mold for each cast. It does work well IF you do that.

As far as accuracy goes, since I don't hunt with a shotgun, I haven't done much accuracy work with either slug. It's not my idea of fun to get beat up by the heavy recoil a slug gun can put out. HOWEVER, the recent purchase of the Caldwell lead sled rest will change that soon!

I have done quite a bit of work with loading sabot loads for 12 gauge shotgun. BPI brought out a sabot for handloaders back in 2008. It used 50 cal. bullets designed for the 500 S&W. I even bought a rifled barrel for my old 870. Those loads kick hard as well. The design of the sabot was bad, it didn't grip the .500 bullets tightly, so they would tumble. They're supposed to be doing a re-work on the dies to make the inside smaller and eliminate the cushion section.

[Lavid2002]

Using bullets for the 500 S&W sound pricey.... I was interested in making them because I can cast and I can make slugs relatively cheap : )

[joneb]

Is it possible to load slugs in all brass cases ? I've seen the brass but I don't know about the dies. I have a rifled slug barrel and thought this might be worth a try.

[snuffy]

Jibjab, yes you could, well it's possible. Practical? No. The problem is the brass cases are much thinner than the plastic cases used in most shotshells. That requires special 10 and 11 gauge wads to create a good seal for reliable powder ignition and complete burn.

The would come the fit of the slug inside the brass case. And, yes, the dies are expensive, require a metallic press capable of taking the 1-¼ die threads. Here's my set-up for loading the 12 gauge brass shells from mag tech,(CBC).



Dave, the 50 cal. XTP bullets ARE expensive! So are the sabots, BUT, have you priced some of the specialty sabot loads? They can cost as much as $4.00 APIECE! As in $20.00 for 5 shells! So loading sabots that cost a couple bucks is a great savings.

I haven't tried the Lee or Lyman slugs in my rifled BBL,,, yet------, thinking of retiring maybe later this summer. THEN I'll have more time to do those lengthy experiments.

Several people have expressed interest in getting some of my 7/8 ounce Lee slugs. I'll get busy tonight to cast some up. I'll use wheel weight alloy, they should shoot just fine. Ask Jmorris how the ones I sent him last summer have worked out.

[joneb]

Jibjab, yes you could, well it's possible. Practical? No.

Thanks snuffy.

[Lavid2002]

How do you crimp those brass casings? Or should I call them hulls

[snuffy]

Dave, the die has a collar that has a taper crimper inside it. You remove the cap to slide it into the top. The other part of the die knocks the fired primer out. There's no way to resize the brass, it doesn't seem to need it, at least not with the loads I was using.

[Lavid2002]

The other part of the die? You mean you de-cap and crimp with the same die?

[snuffy]

The other part of the die? You mean you de-cap and crimp with the same die?

Yup, you got it! This is not a fast process. You have to de-cap first, then take the top off the die , substitute the crimper sleeve, and a cap or cover to complete the process. No means to seat wads either! Then the cost of the die is darn near what a MEC 600 jr. would cost!

I never get interested in cheap projects! BUT the cool factor when you show up at a sporting clays shoot with something different is off the scale! Oh and the 12 gauge wasn't enough, so I'm messing with the all-brass-cases in .410 as well!

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=296286

[Lavid2002]

Phew....kudos to you man...

[snuffy]

Thats a great offer, spending 70 bucks to try a shape out is pretty steep! I'll take you up on that should I get a 12 ga. I hear ballisticly the 20 ga is superior to the 12. It will be used for plinking at the range (Always wanted a slug gun with open irons, a light one) and deer hunting in the fall.

The bold type part of your post has stuck in my mind since you posted it. That myth that the 20 ga. is superior to a 12 as far as slugs go has been around since Noah floated a zoo! The theory goes that smaller lighter, therefore better. Or more like a rifle than a 12 gauge. It just ain't so! The 20 ga. slug IS lighter, but it doesn't go faster. So, it lacks power. The trajectory MAY be a bit flatter because of the lighter slug, but not enough to make up for the loss of power.

Recoil is another matter, if that's a consideration, then the 20 is more pleasant to shoot.

[Lavid2002]

How about the 20 Ga. 3 1/2"

2,000 FPS @ 100 yards
Still over 1,000 FPS @ 200 yards