1851 Navy .36,Powder,Ball,Cap,Wad......?

Remington kid · November 8, 2005, 08:02 AM

My said she was going to give me an extra $200.00 cash to buy what ever I want for Christmas and I just about have my mind made up to get a 1851 Navy .36. Had one many years ago but didn't have much time to mess with it so I sold it to a friend.
My question for nayone who has one of these guns is this. What powder do you like to use in it? What size ball or do conicals work better in a .36? Wad or no wad or wad and grease ? What cap works the best? Any tricks to keep it from jamming all the time from caps falling in the works ?
Thanks for any info you may want to share, Mike

Steve499 · November 8, 2005, 10:03 AM

KID, can you loan me a couple hundred? I'm saving for a whitworth.

Steve

mec · November 8, 2005, 11:44 AM

In the Uberti 36s, I've found the ..375 balls to be a loose-marginal fit. They tend to grip the chamber when fully seated though and I've gotten good groups with them. The only commercial source I know of for .380 balls is Warren /Ozark. They are not all the same size but I have had good accuracy from them too.

The 22 grain spout on some flasks and measures is a good load for the navy with black powder igniting easier than pyrodex or other substitutes. Pyrodex works well if your chambers are absolutely clean and dry and you compress the ball well on seating. The 36 colt chambers will hold up to 25 grains of the fffg granulation and, depending on the powder and individual gun factors, velocities range from the high 900s to the high 1000s. Recoil is inconsequential and they are pleasant to to shoot. the most accurate bullet load I've found have been with the somewhat expensive 125 gr buffalo bullets. I've found them as accurate as round ball and way out ahead of the bullets that drop from the replica moulds.

You can get springs and action parts from VTI gunparts and, if you get a Uberti, Cimarron Arms co is a good source. You can probably get Pietta parts from VTI also. The recent Uberti navys have taller front sight beads and shoot just a little over the sights at 25 yards. - not nearly as high as the old short round beads most of the older ones have.

Remington kid · November 8, 2005, 11:46 AM

Sure, I'll just tell my wife that I want the check book so Steve and I can go shopping for guns. That oughta work

Low Key · November 8, 2005, 11:58 AM

Since it was mentioned, I recommend VTI gun parts for replacement parts for the pietta remingtons. I ordered from them just over a week ago, (mumbling, I needed some replacement screws because of an ill fitting screwdriver that has since been filed and ground down to where it fits right

) but I recieved my parts in less than a week with no hassle and the price was right.

Remington kid · November 8, 2005, 12:15 PM

Thanks Mec, great info! Mike

Low Key, Cabelas sells an unadvertised kit for there Remingtons or I should say they used to. It has everything you would need including a new hammer. They sold for $18.00 for the whole kit a few years back and the hammer alone can cost $25.00-$30.00 from some suppliers.
Sounds like you got a good deal and fast service and that's what counts. Mike

Old Dragoon · December 8, 2005, 11:05 PM

RK,
You mentioned that you might buy a Rem Navy 36 Cal if they were not on the army frame size.. Look what I found in Dixie Catalog.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...roducts_id=907

This is the smaller one right?

gmatov · December 9, 2005, 02:16 AM

Parts is a sonomagun.

You need a spring, where you gonna go? You bought a Pietta, you think you gotta go to a store that sells Pietta. Uberti, the same. ASM, I guess you can't get parts, huh, for a Colt replica?

Well, yeah, you can. Most of the parts are interchangeable, some, like trigger/bolt spring, you might have to trim one leg or the other.

Most hammers will interchange, as will most hands and springs. Trigger and bolt, too. And mainspring.

I buy mine from www.thegunworks.com , good service, quick shipping, but they tell you parts are CVA, so mebbe, just mebbe don't fit yours quite right. I think some makers use a different arbor size, although the book "Guns of the OLd West" gives the Colt size, for the arbor, and the imports size.

Trigger/bolt spring is 2 bucks, mainspring is the same, I think, screws are 2 bucks each, find that Dixie is better there, set of 13 for 12.50.

Gunworks for cylinders, if they will fit your gun, 38.50 with nipples, 59.95 at Dixie.

I buy the parts that break in trips at least, don't have to wait or pay another shipping charge. 4 or 6 bucks in a big envelope in the shop don't hurt me as much as waiting.

Cheers,

George

gmatov · December 9, 2005, 02:21 AM

LowKey,

I don't wanna tell you how to spend your money, but Gander Mountain has a 20 or so piece gunsmith's screwdriver set. BSquare, insert style, magnetic, and they have width and thickness to fit all the screws on BP guns.

I like 'em. 19.95 + tax.

Cheers,

George

Low Key · December 9, 2005, 07:36 AM

Thanks for the info George! I'm nearly tapped out right now because of Christmas but after the first of the year I should be getting back to normal on my funds.

Strangely enough the screwdriver at the end of my nipple wrench fits most of the screws very well (wish I'd tried it sooner). The only one it won't get is the one that holds in the hand, and I found a precision for that out of my electronics tools. I needs me a good set o gunsmith screwdrivers though. That kind of thing always comes in handy!

Remington kid · December 9, 2005, 07:53 AM

Old Dragoon, That Remington .36 is the same size as the .44. They just cut off the barrel. The last company to have the small framed reproduction was Lyman and they quit making them or selling them years ago.
Wish I could find one that was a reproduction of the original with the smaller frame but I tried several years ago to find one and no dice.

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 08:23 AM

Low Key,
Chapman Gun Screwdrivers (maybe what George was talking about ) are not that expensive, come in a yellow(hard to lose in the shop..LOL) case and are the insert type handle, insert shaft, and insert drivers also comes with a ratchet that fits the drivers and shaft. They are a godsend. You can find them at gunshows and most online guns supplies purveyors.

RK,
Oh Shoot I thought I'd found you a real size 36 Navy. Darn! I'll keep looking for that Lyman. Who knows one can turn up on the auction sites. Course, the '61 or the '51 Colt is a great gun a;so. I like the fact that the '61 Navy can be fitted with the stock...if you can find one. Wish they made a stock for the "58 Rem. Double Darn!

Remington kid · December 9, 2005, 09:12 AM

Old Dragoon, One of my problems is deciding between the 51 and the 61. The 61 seems to be the favorite for it's look's over the 51 but that's about it. They are both great and from what I have heard they are on an even keel when it comes to shooting and accuracy. With the 51 being $50.00-$60.00 cheaper I could buy an extra cylinder and spare parts kit and still only have about $200.00 or so in it. I have also discovered from the post on the sites that I have been to that it seems the 61 has more problems then the 51.
Both have great history and some good old boy's loved there 51 Colts.

tinker2 · December 9, 2005, 09:14 AM

Old Dragoon
Are you saying that you can’t get a stock for the 51 navy
any more?

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 09:51 AM

Actually I didn't know you could get a stock for a '51 navy, but this morning I found one in the Dixie Online Catalog. If available that will push me towards a '51 Navy.
I did not know that the '51 Navy was cut for a stock. But from what I read the Dixie Stock (if indeed in stock) comes with the extended screwhead screws. ????
So be sure to KEEP your stock when you replace your Brass Frame.

tinker2 · December 9, 2005, 10:19 AM

Old Dragoon
“Wish they made a stock for the "58 Rem. Double Darn!”

So why can’t we modify a stock to fit?
I think that I looked to see if it was doable. I am sure I thought
that it was.

The picture in the post “Brass frame .36” is a stock for the 51.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=190286
[IMG]

[/IMG]

oldwheat · December 9, 2005, 11:46 AM

......The Navy Colts & the Single Action Army are the same grip....Get some oversize SLA grips & fit 'em to the Navy, no problemo.....

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 04:02 PM

Oldwheat,
Tinker2 was talking about modifying a stock like his to fit a '58 Remington, Which I think also, Ccould be done. Right now I have enough on my plate but put that on the list of to do's...especially if I can get my hands on one.
While we're talking what if's. What if one could modify that stock to fit the '58 Rem and not destroy the capability of fitting the "51 Navy.....HMMMM!

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 04:47 PM

I just found the Wyatt Earp stock in the Dixie Catagog online. It states that it also fits the Texas or Buffalo pistols Brass Framed, Long BBL. '58 Rem.s) as well as the Wyatt Earp pistol. My question is this. Is the Buffalo and Texas Remingtons the same frame size as the New Model Army..(not Dixie's Larger frame '58. ) I'd hate to buy it then have to return it because it won't fit.
I have a fried that has two of the Buffalo Pistols, each pietta and each 1 of 500 series, but no stocks. (maybe they are Texas pistols, but they both are brass frame '58's.) I have held both but cannot for the life of me remember if they are the same as the NMA '58 pietta steel frames. Anyone know for sure?

If this truly will fit a '58 Remington then there is a stock for the '58's.
More Money! I just hate find more ways to spend it.

Remington kid · December 9, 2005, 05:17 PM

Old Dragoon, Yes my son, a stock for the 1858 Remington does exist!

EMF has them on sale right now. Go to the site with this link and scroll down.
http://www.emf-company.com/gun-accessories.htm

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 05:25 PM

RK,
L I B M R Stocks! and they're in my back yard too. About 100 miles south of me. Maybe haps I'll get me one.
Thanks Mike. Saves a bunch of trouble trying to make one fit.

Remington kid · December 9, 2005, 05:30 PM

Sounds like a nice way to spend a day Christmas shopping for yourself, a nice ride, stop for a good lunch, shop for a while, load your truck up with black powder goodys and head back home.

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 05:52 PM

RK,
Yep it does, but....I don't drive the freeways here unless I have too. UPS/FEDX/USPS are way cheaper..and I won't see something else I just gotta have.
Now if there was a gunshow at Orange County Fairgrounds in Costa Mesa.....then I'd have to do a pass by EMF. I don't know if they have a show room or not. Need to check them out further. I knew they were there as I had an EMF Colt clone once and needed a part, they had it.

BTW I just bought a powder scale and a powder trickler on an auction site. I'll be ready to load smokeless or BP cartridge very soon

Thanks Again.
OD

Low Key · December 9, 2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

I don't drive the freeways here unless I have too.

Dragoon, you sound just like me! lol! I try to stay off the interstate around here unless I have to hit it to get where I need to go...too many people out there behind the wheel with their head up their butt and can't see where they're going!

Old Dragoon · December 9, 2005, 07:40 PM

OOPS!
I'm sorry Low Key, I thought you were MPP1423

That's funny I thought the same thing when I went thru Memphis on Sept. 11 2005. Especially thru that construction twist and turn lane shifts. My sister was yelling at me to slow down....18 wheeler ahead, behind and beside...how in the DUBL Hockey Sticks can I slow down!?!?!?!?!
I actually drove coast to coast in 4 days, save for 60 miles on each end. We went I-40/-240/I-40 all the way to Asheville N.C. First night we made Albuquerque, NM, second night Salisaw, OK, third night, Knoxville TN, and We arrived in Chadbourn, N.C. at about 4

m on the 4th day..just in time for the Hurricane.
I don't know where in TN. this park is, so if it's one of MPP1423 parks, I apologise, but the funniest sign I saw on the trip was the sign for Toad Suck Park. My sister land I aughed and laughed about that name, but I know there is history there...

The drivers out here are as bad or worse. I'm lucky to live on the property that I work on, so the truck moves only if I want, or need to..

I probably will go down and check out EMF in the near future, but probably not this month.

November 8, 2005, 08:02 AM	#1
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	1851 Navy .36,Powder,Ball,Cap,Wad......? My said she was going to give me an extra $200.00 cash to buy what ever I want for Christmas and I just about have my mind made up to get a 1851 Navy .36. Had one many years ago but didn't have much time to mess with it so I sold it to a friend. My question for nayone who has one of these guns is this. What powder do you like to use in it? What size ball or do conicals work better in a .36? Wad or no wad or wad and grease ? What cap works the best? Any tricks to keep it from jamming all the time from caps falling in the works ? Thanks for any info you may want to share, Mike

November 8, 2005, 11:58 AM	#5
Low Key Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: In the woods of TN Posts: 298	Since it was mentioned, I recommend VTI gun parts for replacement parts for the pietta remingtons. I ordered from them just over a week ago, (mumbling, I needed some replacement screws because of an ill fitting screwdriver that has since been filed and ground down to where it fits right ) but I recieved my parts in less than a week with no hassle and the price was right. __________________

December 9, 2005, 07:36 AM	#10
Low Key Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: In the woods of TN Posts: 298	Thanks for the info George! I'm nearly tapped out right now because of Christmas but after the first of the year I should be getting back to normal on my funds. Strangely enough the screwdriver at the end of my nipple wrench fits most of the screws very well (wish I'd tried it sooner). The only one it won't get is the one that holds in the hand, and I found a precision for that out of my electronics tools. I needs me a good set o gunsmith screwdrivers though. That kind of thing always comes in handy! __________________

December 9, 2005, 08:23 AM	#12
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Chapman Gunsmithing Screwdrivers Low Key, Chapman Gun Screwdrivers (maybe what George was talking about ) are not that expensive, come in a yellow(hard to lose in the shop..LOL) case and are the insert type handle, insert shaft, and insert drivers also comes with a ratchet that fits the drivers and shaft. They are a godsend. You can find them at gunshows and most online guns supplies purveyors. RK, Oh Shoot I thought I'd found you a real size 36 Navy. Darn! I'll keep looking for that Lyman. Who knows one can turn up on the auction sites. Course, the '61 or the '51 Colt is a great gun a;so. I like the fact that the '61 Navy can be fitted with the stock...if you can find one. Wish they made a stock for the "58 Rem. Double Darn!

December 9, 2005, 10:19 AM	#16
tinker2 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Dakotas Posts: 144	Old Dragoon “Wish they made a stock for the "58 Rem. Double Darn!” So why can’t we modify a stock to fit? I think that I looked to see if it was doable. I am sure I thought that it was. The picture in the post “Brass frame .36” is a stock for the 51. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=190286 [IMG][/IMG]

November 8, 2005, 10:03 AM	#2
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	KID, can you loan me a couple hundred? I'm saving for a whitworth. Steve

November 8, 2005, 11:44 AM	#3
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	In the Uberti 36s, I've found the ..375 balls to be a loose-marginal fit. They tend to grip the chamber when fully seated though and I've gotten good groups with them. The only commercial source I know of for .380 balls is Warren /Ozark. They are not all the same size but I have had good accuracy from them too. The 22 grain spout on some flasks and measures is a good load for the navy with black powder igniting easier than pyrodex or other substitutes. Pyrodex works well if your chambers are absolutely clean and dry and you compress the ball well on seating. The 36 colt chambers will hold up to 25 grains of the fffg granulation and, depending on the powder and individual gun factors, velocities range from the high 900s to the high 1000s. Recoil is inconsequential and they are pleasant to to shoot. the most accurate bullet load I've found have been with the somewhat expensive 125 gr buffalo bullets. I've found them as accurate as round ball and way out ahead of the bullets that drop from the replica moulds. You can get springs and action parts from VTI gunparts and, if you get a Uberti, Cimarron Arms co is a good source. You can probably get Pietta parts from VTI also. The recent Uberti navys have taller front sight beads and shoot just a little over the sights at 25 yards. - not nearly as high as the old short round beads most of the older ones have.

November 8, 2005, 11:46 AM	#4
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Sure, I'll just tell my wife that I want the check book so Steve and I can go shopping for guns. That oughta work

November 8, 2005, 12:15 PM	#6
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Thanks Mec, great info! Mike Low Key, Cabelas sells an unadvertised kit for there Remingtons or I should say they used to. It has everything you would need including a new hammer. They sold for $18.00 for the whole kit a few years back and the hammer alone can cost $25.00-$30.00 from some suppliers. Sounds like you got a good deal and fast service and that's what counts. Mike

December 8, 2005, 11:05 PM	#7
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	RK, You mentioned that you might buy a Rem Navy 36 Cal if they were not on the army frame size.. Look what I found in Dixie Catalog. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...roducts_id=907 This is the smaller one right?

December 9, 2005, 02:16 AM	#8
gmatov Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2005 Posts: 346	Parts is a sonomagun. You need a spring, where you gonna go? You bought a Pietta, you think you gotta go to a store that sells Pietta. Uberti, the same. ASM, I guess you can't get parts, huh, for a Colt replica? Well, yeah, you can. Most of the parts are interchangeable, some, like trigger/bolt spring, you might have to trim one leg or the other. Most hammers will interchange, as will most hands and springs. Trigger and bolt, too. And mainspring. I buy mine from www.thegunworks.com , good service, quick shipping, but they tell you parts are CVA, so mebbe, just mebbe don't fit yours quite right. I think some makers use a different arbor size, although the book "Guns of the OLd West" gives the Colt size, for the arbor, and the imports size. Trigger/bolt spring is 2 bucks, mainspring is the same, I think, screws are 2 bucks each, find that Dixie is better there, set of 13 for 12.50. Gunworks for cylinders, if they will fit your gun, 38.50 with nipples, 59.95 at Dixie. I buy the parts that break in trips at least, don't have to wait or pay another shipping charge. 4 or 6 bucks in a big envelope in the shop don't hurt me as much as waiting. Cheers, George

December 9, 2005, 02:21 AM	#9
gmatov Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2005 Posts: 346	LowKey, I don't wanna tell you how to spend your money, but Gander Mountain has a 20 or so piece gunsmith's screwdriver set. BSquare, insert style, magnetic, and they have width and thickness to fit all the screws on BP guns. I like 'em. 19.95 + tax. Cheers, George

December 9, 2005, 07:53 AM	#11
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Old Dragoon, That Remington .36 is the same size as the .44. They just cut off the barrel. The last company to have the small framed reproduction was Lyman and they quit making them or selling them years ago. Wish I could find one that was a reproduction of the original with the smaller frame but I tried several years ago to find one and no dice.

December 9, 2005, 09:12 AM	#13
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Old Dragoon, One of my problems is deciding between the 51 and the 61. The 61 seems to be the favorite for it's look's over the 51 but that's about it. They are both great and from what I have heard they are on an even keel when it comes to shooting and accuracy. With the 51 being $50.00-$60.00 cheaper I could buy an extra cylinder and spare parts kit and still only have about $200.00 or so in it. I have also discovered from the post on the sites that I have been to that it seems the 61 has more problems then the 51. Both have great history and some good old boy's loved there 51 Colts.

December 9, 2005, 09:14 AM	#14
tinker2 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Dakotas Posts: 144	Old Dragoon Are you saying that you can’t get a stock for the 51 navy any more?

December 9, 2005, 09:51 AM	#15
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Actually I didn't know you could get a stock for a '51 navy, but this morning I found one in the Dixie Online Catalog. If available that will push me towards a '51 Navy. I did not know that the '51 Navy was cut for a stock. But from what I read the Dixie Stock (if indeed in stock) comes with the extended screwhead screws. ???? So be sure to KEEP your stock when you replace your Brass Frame.

December 9, 2005, 11:46 AM	#17
oldwheat Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2005 Location: Dorton's Station Posts: 105	......The Navy Colts & the Single Action Army are the same grip....Get some oversize SLA grips & fit 'em to the Navy, no problemo.....

December 9, 2005, 04:02 PM	#18
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Oldwheat, Tinker2 was talking about modifying a stock like his to fit a '58 Remington, Which I think also, Ccould be done. Right now I have enough on my plate but put that on the list of to do's...especially if I can get my hands on one. While we're talking what if's. What if one could modify that stock to fit the '58 Rem and not destroy the capability of fitting the "51 Navy.....HMMMM!

December 9, 2005, 04:47 PM	#19
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Wyatt Earp stock..... I just found the Wyatt Earp stock in the Dixie Catagog online. It states that it also fits the Texas or Buffalo pistols Brass Framed, Long BBL. '58 Rem.s) as well as the Wyatt Earp pistol. My question is this. Is the Buffalo and Texas Remingtons the same frame size as the New Model Army..(not Dixie's Larger frame '58. ) I'd hate to buy it then have to return it because it won't fit. I have a fried that has two of the Buffalo Pistols, each pietta and each 1 of 500 series, but no stocks. (maybe they are Texas pistols, but they both are brass frame '58's.) I have held both but cannot for the life of me remember if they are the same as the NMA '58 pietta steel frames. Anyone know for sure? If this truly will fit a '58 Remington then there is a stock for the '58's. More Money! I just hate find more ways to spend it.

December 9, 2005, 05:17 PM	#20
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Old Dragoon, Yes my son, a stock for the 1858 Remington does exist! EMF has them on sale right now. Go to the site with this link and scroll down. http://www.emf-company.com/gun-accessories.htm

December 9, 2005, 05:25 PM	#21
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	RK, L I B M R Stocks! and they're in my back yard too. About 100 miles south of me. Maybe haps I'll get me one. Thanks Mike. Saves a bunch of trouble trying to make one fit. Last edited by Old Dragoon; December 9, 2005 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Cause I type faster than I can think and spell...DUH

December 9, 2005, 05:30 PM	#22
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Sounds like a nice way to spend a day Christmas shopping for yourself, a nice ride, stop for a good lunch, shop for a while, load your truck up with black powder goodys and head back home.

December 9, 2005, 05:52 PM	#23
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	RK, Yep it does, but....I don't drive the freeways here unless I have too. UPS/FEDX/USPS are way cheaper..and I won't see something else I just gotta have. Now if there was a gunshow at Orange County Fairgrounds in Costa Mesa.....then I'd have to do a pass by EMF. I don't know if they have a show room or not. Need to check them out further. I knew they were there as I had an EMF Colt clone once and needed a part, they had it. BTW I just bought a powder scale and a powder trickler on an auction site. I'll be ready to load smokeless or BP cartridge very soon Thanks Again. OD

December 9, 2005, 07:40 PM	#25
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Bad Drivers in Memphis/ TN.......???? OOPS! I'm sorry Low Key, I thought you were MPP1423 That's funny I thought the same thing when I went thru Memphis on Sept. 11 2005. Especially thru that construction twist and turn lane shifts. My sister was yelling at me to slow down....18 wheeler ahead, behind and beside...how in the DUBL Hockey Sticks can I slow down!?!?!?!?! I actually drove coast to coast in 4 days, save for 60 miles on each end. We went I-40/-240/I-40 all the way to Asheville N.C. First night we made Albuquerque, NM, second night Salisaw, OK, third night, Knoxville TN, and We arrived in Chadbourn, N.C. at about 4m on the 4th day..just in time for the Hurricane. I don't know where in TN. this park is, so if it's one of MPP1423 parks, I apologise, but the funniest sign I saw on the trip was the sign for Toad Suck Park. My sister land I aughed and laughed about that name, but I know there is history there... The drivers out here are as bad or worse. I'm lucky to live on the property that I work on, so the truck moves only if I want, or need to.. I probably will go down and check out EMF in the near future, but probably not this month. Last edited by Old Dragoon; December 9, 2005 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Because I didn't read the poster above and I'm stupid sometimes.