Why Don't Pump Action Rifles Get Any Love?

[dahermit]

not the fetterman affair. their were several fights where a few 1860-1866 henrey,s were used to save the day. i think if custer had not split his men up into three groups and had repeating rifles it would have been a indian route.eastbank.

The Wagon Box Fight was not the same as the Fetterman Massacre. The Fetterman soldiers were wiped out whereas the soldiers in the Wagon Box Fight prevailed and survived...due to their brand-new, single-shot breechloaders.
When it comes to repeaters being able to save Custer, there have been tests comparing repeaters with trapdoors that show that the repeaters of the time could not produce the sustained fire that a single-shot breech loader could. While it is true that the repeaters can fire its rounds faster, they take way longer to reload and when they do, the single shots averaged more shots fired over time. It is said that that phenomenon remained true until the invention of the stripper clip...however, it seems to me that a 30-40 Krag can be loaded quite fast. What would have saved Custer, is if he had not split his force into three and had taken a defensive position on high-open ground (as Reno and later Bentyne did), and waited for the rest of the U.S. forces on their way to the area. Either that, or not been born stupid.

[RC20]

Keep in mind, that repeaters do work, but you also have to have the discipline to use them correctly. That's why the one Calvary outfit did so well. They used them correctly.

Ergo , repeaters are far better than any single fire for a rush, but you also do not just blast them off willy nilly, careful aimed fire the rest of the time (and slow)

Vietnam they had something called a mad minute, total waste of ammo. Viets had to be laughing.

Recent discussion with a vet who had been to the sand boxes, he had never used full auto.

[dahermit]

Keep in mind, that repeaters do work, but you also have to have the discipline to use them correctly. That's why the one Calvary outfit did so well. They used them correctly.

Which cavalry outfit did that?

Ergo , repeaters are far better than any single fire for a rush...

When was Reno rushed? When was Custer rushed?

[eastbank]

mich cavalry at gettysburg under custer used spencer repeaters to turn southern calvery, one in four held the horses as the rest fought on foot. you do not have to be rushed to use a repeater as it allows one to fire and reload with out much movement and exposing your self for 10-12 shots from a repeater. had custer,s men had repeaters it may have turned the tide had he not split his men into three groups, but by splitting his men he sealed his and his mens fate as the indians tied reno and bentine down so they could not help custer or his men. it did not take many indians to keep reno and bentine busy while the rest chased custers men down and killed then in a moving fight, they did not die in a group, but in a strung out fight. eastbank.

[RC20]

Now you made me go look it up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hoover%27s_Gap

[RiponP90]

I would totally give a pump 22 some love if I could find a decent one. Do they even make them anymore? I've always found them fascinating but only fired one a couple of times and don't own one My go to for 22LR is semiauto since I haven't had much luck with bolt actions. I just don't find them to be built as well in general. Just my opinion though! I'm betting a pump would cycle well if you aren't trying to rapid fire.

[Driftwood Johnson]

I would totally give a pump 22 some love if I could find a decent one.

Funny you should say so. My Dad gave me the little Winchester Model '06 at the bottom of this photo back when I was around 15 years old. His dad had bought it in the Abercrombie and Fitch store in Manhattan in the late 1930s. Shoots 22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles interchangeably. Taurus was making a Stainless knock off of the model '06 a few years ago. I don't know if it is still in production, but I see them occasionally at shows. Of course the quality of the little old Winchester is much better.

I found the Model 1890 at the top of the photo just recently. It was made in 1906. Will only chamber 22 Shorts. It is still a tack driver, but I am having a heck of a time finding any 22 shorts these days.






I found this Model 61 a few years ago. It was made in 1946. 22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles. I was shooting a 22 plate match every month and had to get off 8 aimed shots in 15 seconds. I found I could keep up just fine with the guys with their tricked out Ruger 10/22s.

[Fla_dogman]

I always felt the loose forearm had an effect on the accuracy, they are fun to carry but mine kicks like a mule

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[RC20]

I would go for a 22 pump if I could see the iron sights.

Cut a card in half edge on when I was a kid with my moms (Winchester I think)

I bought a Rossi replica years back, not very accurate.

[jdh]

Many people like to hunt with pump rifles. If you like them they are perfectly adequate for hunting.

They are not as inherently accurate as a bolt gun. They have a barrel hanger soldered on the barrel and I have never seen a pump or simi-auto that did not suffer some barrel warpage due to that. At any rate when the barrel is shot out it is not as easily replaceable as a bolt gun.

They have never been favored by the military because they are not as durable as a bolt gun. The same can be said of the lever guns although during war time they have been used to good advantage. The magazine tube is easily dented putting it out of action. Sometimes you go to war wit what you have rather than what you'd like.

That is one of the things that makes hunting interesting. People like different things. It is not so much what you like but how proficient you get at using it that counts.

Joe

[amprecon]

I own an 870 shotgun and bolt-actions are my least favorite action, slow, awkward and cumbersome. I have looked long and hard at a 7600 to replace the last bolty I owned in .308. But I want it in a significant caliber for the larger game. I think 35 Whelen was the largest caliber they offered them in at one time. There's some used one's I see every now and then, but if they made them in calibers like .338 Fed or .358 win I'd probably find a way to buy one tomorrow.

[Wyosmith]

jdh, (and all other that have not looked at at a 760 closely)
You are wrong about the barrel being effected by the forend.

The 760s pump and pump rod are mounted to the receiver and never touch the barrel at all unless it is twisted over by a human hand to force it to touch.
It is a 100% free floated barrel.

I do not like the skimpy extractor and I don't think the triggers are all that great, but I have NO complaints about accuracy. They can shoot as well as a bolt and I have seen it done many times. In fact I have done it myself

If Remington were to mount the pump on a square rod with a broached square pump mount they could even eliminate the ability of a human hand to twist the forend to touch, but alas...Remington seldom (if ever) listens to any advice form anyone

[bamaranger]

I just saw pics of the Troy pump in this month's "Rifleman". Yee gads, that rifle has no appeal to me. While I'm at it, the tac-stock, mag fed Remingtons same same. To each his own, and those two are not for me.

I had a Rem .22 pump, the Fieldmaster I believe, and shot it so much, I literally wore it out. Always wanted one as a kid, and finally found a used one at about age 35, and shot the snot out of it!!! It developed some type of glitch where it would split the forearm at the shot, some type of pulse was coming up the action bar and jarring the forearm. The Fieldmaster was a long, sleek pump, and I always thought quite handsome. Mine was an early one with a slightly longer barrel, dovetailed front sight, simple wood, and the vertically grooved forearm.

Always been a pump shotgun guy, and have carried the 870 many miles, and trained with them at work too. I had occassion this spring, due to my own foul up, to need quick repeat shots on spring gobblers (not recommended) and the pump action came through and saved the day (twice!).

It would make sense to transfer all that time and experience with pumps over to a center fire rifle, but there are no pump rifles in my safe at the present time. I believe the act of cycling the pump forces the shooter to slow down just the wee amount necessary to be better "set up/lined up" for the next shot. It's pretty easy to bang one off with a semi when you're not quite "on". Maybe that's just me.

When I do get around to buying one, it'll be used, and likely from the 760 era. Likely a carbine, if I could find one in .308 that'd be the one, but most of the pump carbines I see are '06. The matte and synthetic LE model was in .308, but they seem scarce and pricey. I may well have to settle for an '06, and load it down a bit to make it less obnoxious in the carbine barrel. I was up in PA last month, and saw quite a few full size Rem pumps in the used gun racks. I suppose I could get one cut. There's no shortage of the later models.

[Erno86]

You can get fast pump action speed, if you pump during recoil.

[amprecon]

I believe the act of cycling the pump forces the shooter to slow down just the wee amount necessary to be better "set up/lined up" for the next shot. It's pretty easy to bang one off with a semi when you're not quite "on".

I have found this to be exactly the case with me as well, that little pause of cycling the pump seems to give me a rythm that helps me be more accurate than with a semi.

[jetinteriorguy]

Pumps are a natural for getting back on target quickly. Pull pump toward you on recoil to eject and as you push the pump forward to reload you also tend to naturally bring the barrel back down to get back on target quickly.

[RC20]

I understand why the military went with bolts but I do like pumps

I seriously looked at those and semi auto when I was looking for a hunting rifle.

I went with bolt eventually but the night in the swamp cleaning a moose I sure wished I had one of those. Pretty puckered up at any noise that night.

Bear took a moose kill away from a hunter a couple miles away that night (we heard it on the radio chatter the next am)

backs against a creek with no good way out.

[Clark]

I like Win 06, Win 62A, and Win 61 pump rifles.

[GarandTd]

FNG here. A recent gun raffle win rekindled the gunfire inside me. I believe it was a "nudge" from the afterlife from my late Father.

Back on topic. I have a 35 Cal Remington model 141 gamemaster, manufactured in 1946. It was my father's and his father's before him. What a great gun! I do not currently hunt, but when I did, it was with that rifle that I bagged my 1st and only buck and did it with one shot. I was probably 14 at the time. I'm in PA and have heard that this gun Is/was popular in the Northeast.

[Mannlicher]

Savage 170 pump, in .30/30. Accurate, reliable, and a great deer rifle in the swamps here in North Florida.

[rightside]

Mannlicher,
That is an extremely cool rifle! Not one you see often. thanks for sharing.

[Gunplummer]

I have to agree with the accuracy comments. Back when live turkey shoots were legal, you should have seen some of those old boys with their .270 and 30.06 pumps. I think a pump rifle probably "Points" better for most people when shooting off hand. I never was fond of them for hunting because of the length. When I was a kid I started with a very short single shot 12 gage. I saved up for a used pump and finally got one. I never even finished the first year hunting with it. The action was long and made the gun unwieldy in heavy brush. Seems every gun has its pros and cons.

[briandg]

I personally like my dad's old 742 semiautomatic and I believe that it makes a sweet handling open sight short range rifle just as their pump does. The stock is just bad for me, when I have it fitted to my face, it takes a lot of wiggling to get my cheek down to that sight line. The factory sights are about a half inch too low. My dad used a scope, I would use a dot for short range and a scope for long.

Just like a good shotgun, that thing points naturally. I once speint a few hours practicing shouldering it, and I was making shots at 100 yards into eight inch targets with ease.

[GarandTd]

My 1946 Remington model 141

[FITASC]

Pump action shotguns are the most commonly bought types of shotguns,

Depends. They sell a lot because they are cheap, no other reason. They are jacks of all trades and masters of none...............but they are cheap to buy. A little more to it when you have a rifle and accuracy needs.