Leaving primers in primer tray

[viper1216]

I have a lee safety prime. Can you leave primers in the tray? If not, how do you get them back in the box without touching them?

[snuffy]

#1, sure, why not? As long as you either remember which brand and number they are, or lable them they will be just fine.

#2, why are you concerned about touching them?

[viper1216]

I thought I read that you shouldn't touch them due to the oils in your hands. Could cause them not to fire. Is this false??

[armedandsafe]

I think the finger oil thought is just that extra-special-careful-better-safe-than-sorry idea. I have read of primers being dunked in WD-40 for a week, allowed to dry out for a week and they fired fine. I have read of primers spritzed with gun oil which wouldn't fire after a year. Hmmmmm.

I handle my primers when necessary, but try not to place a finger pad directly over the cup. I leave my primers in the flip tray. Each brand/type of primer has its own, labeled flip tray.

Pops

[kingudaroad]

Your talking about some real oily hands viper.

Seriously though I dont think handling them will cause them not to fire.

[orionengnr]

How about latex gloves?

Home Depot, etc., have them in the paint section.

I keep a box in the garage for oil changes, etc...

[snuffy]

I too "heard" that the oil,(lanolin), on your hands would affect the primer. That's hearsay! Tests done by lot of folks have shown that primers are very hard to de-activate. The only sure way is being soaked a harsh solvent. That removes the sealant that's applied to every primer AFTER it's done with ALL the steps of manufacture. That sealant prevents humidity, most oils, and especially the minute ammount of oil that's on our fingers from affecting the primer pellet.

[viper1216]

At least it's nice to know I'm not "hearing" things

Damn Voices!!!!!!!

[amamnn]

I handle primers all the time. I hand prime on the press exclusively and have done so for years and years and..........nevermind. I do use two aids in handling primers that have enabled me to do this --they are--- soap and water.

[Foxman]

After a few experiences of loads not performing as expected, I have stopped leaving primers in trays and in fact when I buy them i put theem straight into a large tupperware box to keep them sealed up along with the others I use.
I found that moisture was affecting them after time and I bought one of those portable dehumidifiers I have a room at the back of the house with all my gun related and reloading stuff and when I put it in there for a couple of days it pulled over four quarts of water out per day!
I guess nowhere is really 100% dry in ordinary premises so I went for the sealed box answer, I also keep my powders in similar boxes now too.

[Mal H]

Not to worry, viper. I've been handling primers for going on 40 years with no FTF's that can be attributed to the primer. I do keep my hands relatively clean when reloading. I wouldn't handle them after doing an oil change, for example.

[snuffy]

After a few experiences of loads not performing as expected, I have stopped leaving primers in trays and in fact when I buy them i put theem straight into a large tupperware box to keep them sealed up along with the others I use.
I found that moisture was affecting them after time and I bought one of those portable dehumidifiers I have a room at the back of the house with all my gun related and reloading stuff and when I put it in there for a couple of days it pulled over four quarts of water out per day!

What do you suppose is in that box other than the primers? Unless you create a vacuum, there's room air in there with them!

Primers are not fragile at all. They have sealer on them that prevents moisture, carried by humid enviroments, from affecting the primer pellet.

The same goes for powder, as long as the cap is on tight AND it's kept out of dirrect sunlight, it'll last nearly forever. Powder cans used to be made out of cardboard!

[Ruger4570]

Reasonable care will keep primers and powder just fine. I have used some Bulleseye powder that has been stored under some of the worst conditions possible and it has performed just fine. The powder was at least 45 years old. I have recently used some primers I bought in the 70's and they too were stored in less than desirable conditions. The end result, they worked just fine.

[Foxman]

Snuffy
There aint 4 quarts of water in the plastic box thats for sure,
There have been several published articles by people who are able to really tell whats happening and increased moisture content in both primers and powder have a definite affect on performance.
In a 30-06 hunting load you probably wouldnt notice any difference, but in a 22-250 or 222 you will soon notice any difference.
There is going to be some guy come on and say he bought a load of powder that had been in a creek for 6months and still worked fine, reality is completely different. You should try to store powder and primers in a cool dry place to get consistency, that leads to accuracy,among other factors

[snuffy]

There have been several published articles by people who are able to really tell whats happening and increased moisture content in both primers and powder have a definite affect on performance.

Uh-huh, give somebody an education, a wordprocessor, and a theory-- right away you get fact? I don't think so, especially when you see all the practical applications we are getting from people who don't fret the small details like you do.

I've seen studies that say just the opposite of what you and the "published articles" are saying. Lets agree to dissagree, we both can still shoot all we want to, at least untill some commie liberal gets in the white house!

[WIN71]

Here's how it was explained to me. No doubt these primers are manufactured in some type of humidity and temperature controlled environment. They are packaged in a loose fitting cardboard and plastic package. It is not vapor proof !! Then they are shipped all over the world. Desert, mountain, rain forest, every environment from 20% humidity to probably 90+% humidity. They are getting damp and they are getting dried out and it doesn’t make any difference. Short of soaking the priming material with some non dehydrating liquid and completely preventing it from burning, they'll work fine.

This is not to say you should pick your nose and handle primers. You should keep your hands relatively free of liquid or dry contaminants if handling powder or primers.

[Foxman]

I sure can agree to disagree with you.
However you state that "I've seen studies that say just the opposite of what you and the "published articles" are saying."
You may wish to read this:-
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/show...?t=5753&page=2
And if you search on the "effect of moisture on smokeless powders" you will find that the US Navy and the powder manufacturers do not agree with your statement that moisture has no effect etc , in fact much the opposite.

[snuffy]

Foxman, thanks for the link to the benchresters. They argue about the finer points of shooting more than we do here. But your reference to them solved nothing or didn't prove anything. THEY can't even agree whether moisture content in powder has any effect! One of them mentioned it did, but didn't go on the "prove" it!

They were much more interested in humidity content in the atmosphere, and the elevation at the range. The ammount of moisture in the air at the range can only affect the powder IF they are loading AT the range. Of course many of them do that. So the relative humidity that day COULD affect the load.

Now stop and think a moment. How much air is trapped in a shell? A tiny ammount if the shell is loaded to 100% density. Only the air surrounding the powder granuals is of any consequence. Since the powder does NOT require that air to burn,(it would still fire in the vacuum of space), the only consideration is for the ammount of water vapor in that air.

Yes, I did a search on google for the effects of moisture on smokeless powder. That was interesting, a chance to flex the brain muscle. I love to learn new things! BUT I couldn't find any dirrect references to what you said. Something was mentioned in a court case about a smokeless powder pipe bomb used to kill a woman, an inderrect reference to it possibly had some unknown affect on the power of said bomb. Smokeless powder is NOT hygroscopic. It does not absorb moisture from the atmosphere. Black powder does. Untill it was "glazed" with graphite it would soak up large ammounts of humidity, sometimes returning to a liquid form. Even with the addition of the glazing it still soaks up a lot of water.

As for the primer issue, as win71 says they are not sealed after being put in their boxes. IF they could soak up humidity, they would be sealed after production, along with a warning to only unseal when ready for use, then have a means to re-seal them after use.

I have some DCM primers sold to me after a DCM shoot in 1973. They are marked cal 30 No. 120M primers, contract DA-36-038-Ord 3916. That makes them 33 years old? They are packed in a plain cardboard box with a WOODEN tray to hold the primers.They have been exposed to whatever humidity was around all those years. For the first 17 years that was a damp-dank basement! I'm going to load a few for my .308. I'll even run them over my chrongraph for a consistancy test. Might be an eye opener, for somebody!

[Foxman]

Yes there is a lot of stuff on there that goes ito real minute detail. One guy mentions what the US Navy and the manufacturers say, which is the powder is dried to a known moisture content and then sealed up in its containers, any change from that affects the burning rate ( which changes your load characteristics) and not always how you would expect.
Primers are a tad better in that they get a coat of varnish when made but can still change their characteristics.
Military ammo is sealed both at primer and bullet to make it more durable and consistent too.
As I said in bigger rounds I haven't noticed any major differences , but in the small stuff where a tenth or two makes a real difference I have noticed changes in point of impact that were enough to get me thinking, what made the difference.
Since I tightened up on my storage things have gotten better and I can pretty well guarantee my small rounds will do the same each time now.
I surely dont worry about the kind of day I go shooting and carrying a weather station round with me though.

P.S try Altavista.com ,I find it is sometimes a better search engine than Google.

[WIN71]

Snuffy........I would be interested in your "old Primer" testing. I too have some old CCI small pistol primers. I think they may be older than yours. "non-corrosive, non mercuric" is plainly marked on the box. They have a retail price tag on them from the old White Front stores for a whooping $.68. I'm trying to remember when I paid 68 cents retail price on 100 primers.

[MADISON]

Leaving primers in primer tray?
I am a PRIMER TUBE guy. I can see no reason for not leaving primers in the tray. There is a catch to have pre-loaded tubes or pre-loaded primer trays.
You must label the primers so you don't mix:
Rlfle
Standard
Magnum primers.