Identifying Model 42's and Value

sammars · October 31, 2011, 02:06 PM

Ok guys, I need your help. I've got 2 Winchester Model 42's that have been locked up in the back of the safe for too long and they need a good home about as bad as I need the $. I didn't want to sell them too cheap. I've got a local buyer who is interested in them, but I need to name my price. I know pricing is all over the board on these, so I could use some help from anyone who keeps up with them. I also was a little puzzled about the rib on one of them. If a 42 is marked Skeet on the left side, is it always a skeet grade gun?

I think they both date to 1963, the last year they were made.
Option 1 is marked Skeet on the side, 3" chamber, and is a true cream puff. Notice the style rib it has. Side is marked Simmons pat Pend. Serial # is 157523. This rib looks like a completely different style than the rib/posts on the second option.

Option 2 is marked Modified on the side. 3" chamber, and is really nice, just not as perfect as the first one. Serial # is 159298. Does this rib look factory to you? I think this is the 3rd style I've ready about with the round posts, etc. Has the longer Simmons Gun Specialties Kansas City on the left side.

Any ideas what these are currently selling for? Is one more rare than the other. What's the difference in the wood, and what's the deal with one having Diamonds on the bottom and the other not. I know the checkering was an upgrade for both, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't selling something super rare (like a Deluxe, or special Skeet config) for the price of a regular #42.

Any other details I need to add? I realized that a photo of the whole shotgun would help, but I left these at the dealer who was wanting to sell them for me.

Also, the ramp on the #1 is a skinnier rib with a different style post and the #2 has a REALLY WIDE rib. I've never seen another one like it.

Any input you guys could offer is much appreciated!

zippy13 · October 31, 2011, 05:12 PM

Simmons makes more than one rib style. IMU, Winchester used to send their factory guns to Simmons for ribs and finishing.

oneounceload · October 31, 2011, 05:20 PM

Simmons is one of those companies where their aftermarket work and products do NOT detract from the value

Take a look on Gunsinternational.com......find the 42 section and see what similar guns are going for

BigJimP · October 31, 2011, 05:32 PM

You're right prices on these model 42's are all over the board ...and your market - for buyers - on these guns are pretty limited. You'll get a lot of Looky-Lou's - but not a lot of guys with some cash ....

You need to find someone who really wants them ...maybe had them as a kid or something ...and has to have one or both of them for his collection. I strongly suggest you sell them as a pair -- let the buyer split them up if he doesn't want them both.

Price - who knows --- I've seen them under $1,000 and over $5,000 ...and photos you attached are not great ....but my hunch is you're on the lower end of the spectrum for either one ...

You're after a collector ...not a "field shooter" ...because anyone can buy a brand new Browning BPS pump in .410 for around $ 600 - and its a very good gun. http://www.browning.com/products/cat...unter-firearms - so you're not looking for that buyer....

Anyone can also buy a Browning Lightning Citori Over Under ...in .410 for around $ 1,750 new .../ and again its a very serviceable field gun ...so you aren't going after that buyer either...

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...tning-firearms

You need to find that guy - that just has to have them - and you have to play it, because you have to know, he doesn't need them - because he isn't going to shoot them for competition ...they're a novelty - and for the right price he'll buy them both. You have to find that guy ...and figure out what his wallet says for a novelty ...so he'll bite...

I think you've be doing very well to get between $2,000 and $3,000 for the pair. I'd probably ask $ 3,000 and see what happens ...if they were mine and I didn't want to keep them / or whatever your price is - that you won't regret selling them down the road a few yrs - and be prepared to keep them if the buyer isn't serious.

What is the shop telling you they're worth where you have them for sale now ? What does he / she think they can get for them ? They're the ones that have had a close look at them / held them in their hands ....??

zippy13 · October 31, 2011, 05:48 PM

There's an old saying: A gun is worth what someone will pay for it.

BigJimP · October 31, 2011, 06:19 PM

and if you can't find a buyer for what you think its worth ...then don't sell it.

I'm seeing a lot of pretty nice inventory at the big gun shows recently ...its a good time to be a buyer ...maybe not so much a seller / especially with some unique guns. I was in a position to meet the asking price ---a modest price ---on a very nice revolver that I had been looking for, for a long time at a show ...and would have paid more, if the seller had asked more .../ I was just in the right place at the right time...and I think that's what might happen to you on your guns as well ...and both of you'll be very happy.

I have some grandkids in their 20's now ...and their buddies ...and its my priveledge to be taking them out and shooting some Skeet and Sporting Clays and 5 stand...and they all gravitate to a couple of shotguns I have that are synthetic --- a Benelli Super Sport model ...they think its really sexy. I like it too ...but to me they are practical, utilitarian guns ...all weather guns ...travel guns.../ where my primary guns are older Over Unders and nice wood stocks....the young guys "like them" --- but they really like the synthetic ...look of the Benelli.

http://cdn.benelliusa.com/assets/sil...sport_comb.jpg

and to them, even a high end pump gun ...just isn't anything they have any interest in / where, when I was a teenager, I couldn't wait to get my first pump-gun in the 60's..../ but all these things go thru stages..../ and when all of us "baby boomers" are gone ....there might not be any value in those old model 42's at all to these next couple of generations....and I don't have any idea how to predict what will be cool and what won't ...or what kind of collectable guns will be desireable enough, to get them to spend their "novelty money" ....if any for that matter.

30-30remchester · October 31, 2011, 06:48 PM

From my years of research on model 12's, from the photos I see, the ribs look to be aftermarket. Yes Winchester used Simmonds ribs on some of their guns but from my years of research, Winchester did the installation and the guns were proofmarked accordingly. I dont see the proofmarks in the photos. I ASSUME model 42's were the same as the model 12's in their markings. Please feel free to correct and educate me if you have documented proof. That is how we all learn.

oneounceload · October 31, 2011, 07:16 PM

with base model 42'a going for 1500, and really good models going for twice that - a 42 fan will be knocking on your door

zippy13 · October 31, 2011, 08:07 PM

30-30
Please see PM.

.300 Weatherby Mag · November 1, 2011, 01:50 AM

Quote:

really good models going for twice that

I've seen some of them sell for $4000+

October 31, 2011, 05:12 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Simmons makes more than one rib style. IMU, Winchester used to send their factory guns to Simmons for ribs and finishing.

October 31, 2011, 05:20 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Simmons is one of those companies where their aftermarket work and products do NOT detract from the value Take a look on Gunsinternational.com......find the 42 section and see what similar guns are going for

October 31, 2011, 05:32 PM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You're right prices on these model 42's are all over the board ...and your market - for buyers - on these guns are pretty limited. You'll get a lot of Looky-Lou's - but not a lot of guys with some cash .... You need to find someone who really wants them ...maybe had them as a kid or something ...and has to have one or both of them for his collection. I strongly suggest you sell them as a pair -- let the buyer split them up if he doesn't want them both. Price - who knows --- I've seen them under $1,000 and over $5,000 ...and photos you attached are not great ....but my hunch is you're on the lower end of the spectrum for either one ... You're after a collector ...not a "field shooter" ...because anyone can buy a brand new Browning BPS pump in .410 for around $ 600 - and its a very good gun. http://www.browning.com/products/cat...unter-firearms - so you're not looking for that buyer.... Anyone can also buy a Browning Lightning Citori Over Under ...in .410 for around $ 1,750 new .../ and again its a very serviceable field gun ...so you aren't going after that buyer either... http://www.browning.com/products/cat...tning-firearms You need to find that guy - that just has to have them - and you have to play it, because you have to know, he doesn't need them - because he isn't going to shoot them for competition ...they're a novelty - and for the right price he'll buy them both. You have to find that guy ...and figure out what his wallet says for a novelty ...so he'll bite... I think you've be doing very well to get between $2,000 and $3,000 for the pair. I'd probably ask $ 3,000 and see what happens ...if they were mine and I didn't want to keep them / or whatever your price is - that you won't regret selling them down the road a few yrs - and be prepared to keep them if the buyer isn't serious. What is the shop telling you they're worth where you have them for sale now ? What does he / she think they can get for them ? They're the ones that have had a close look at them / held them in their hands ....??

October 31, 2011, 05:48 PM	#5
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	There's an old saying: A gun is worth what someone will pay for it.

October 31, 2011, 06:19 PM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	and if you can't find a buyer for what you think its worth ...then don't sell it. I'm seeing a lot of pretty nice inventory at the big gun shows recently ...its a good time to be a buyer ...maybe not so much a seller / especially with some unique guns. I was in a position to meet the asking price ---a modest price ---on a very nice revolver that I had been looking for, for a long time at a show ...and would have paid more, if the seller had asked more .../ I was just in the right place at the right time...and I think that's what might happen to you on your guns as well ...and both of you'll be very happy. I have some grandkids in their 20's now ...and their buddies ...and its my priveledge to be taking them out and shooting some Skeet and Sporting Clays and 5 stand...and they all gravitate to a couple of shotguns I have that are synthetic --- a Benelli Super Sport model ...they think its really sexy. I like it too ...but to me they are practical, utilitarian guns ...all weather guns ...travel guns.../ where my primary guns are older Over Unders and nice wood stocks....the young guys "like them" --- but they really like the synthetic ...look of the Benelli. http://cdn.benelliusa.com/assets/sil...sport_comb.jpg and to them, even a high end pump gun ...just isn't anything they have any interest in / where, when I was a teenager, I couldn't wait to get my first pump-gun in the 60's..../ but all these things go thru stages..../ and when all of us "baby boomers" are gone ....there might not be any value in those old model 42's at all to these next couple of generations....and I don't have any idea how to predict what will be cool and what won't ...or what kind of collectable guns will be desireable enough, to get them to spend their "novelty money" ....if any for that matter.

October 31, 2011, 06:48 PM	#7
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	From my years of research on model 12's, from the photos I see, the ribs look to be aftermarket. Yes Winchester used Simmonds ribs on some of their guns but from my years of research, Winchester did the installation and the guns were proofmarked accordingly. I dont see the proofmarks in the photos. I ASSUME model 42's were the same as the model 12's in their markings. Please feel free to correct and educate me if you have documented proof. That is how we all learn.

October 31, 2011, 07:16 PM	#8
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	with base model 42'a going for 1500, and really good models going for twice that - a 42 fan will be knocking on your door

October 31, 2011, 08:07 PM	#9
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	30-30 Please see PM.