Loading cast in 8mm mauser

5whiskey · June 23, 2016, 10:44 PM

So the question is just that. Anyone have tried and/or have good recipes for cast in 8x57? Logically it seems like it may do well with heavy cast pills, and wouldn't need to be downloaded a huge amount. Most 200+ grain loads published are around 2500 fps for middle of the road charges. I'm thinking a good hard cast should survive about 1700fps on the top end, around 2000 gas checked. So it shouldn't have to be downloaded a huge amount (with heavy projectiles) to work... At least thats what im thinking.

My rifle is a yugo 24/47. Absolute blast of a rifle. It will hold a decent 2-3moa with the lightweight (158 gn?) Romanian surplus... Which is far from the best ammo to be found. Surplus is drying up (been dried up) and current load isn't cheap, nor is it usually optimally loaded. I've always been intrigued and wanted to try cast in a bottleneck rifle cartridge. So, does anyone have any experience?

Sevens · June 24, 2016, 01:03 AM

I'm pretty much posting simply to subscribe and see what comments come in. I have an unknown "mystery Mauser" and was never happy in dealing with surplus, so most of my shooting over the years has been when I've good deals on .323" jacketed slugs for handloads.

As I do not cast bullets and have no plans to do so going forward, I've been looking for other answers. And I began experimenting last year with reduced loads using Red Dot under Xtreme plated 123gr 7.62x39 (.311") heavy plated slugs.

It's a project that got shelved when winter moved in and I haven't gotten back to it. Early returns seemed positive. However, I don't have any REAL special use for my 8x57, I just have fun trying to ring steel from 100-300 yards. It'd be foolish to, say, hunt with these low-cost bullets.

If there are commercially cast -AND- affordable 8mm lead slugs available, I might try going down that road also. But if I have to cast them myself, I'm out.

condor bravo · June 24, 2016, 02:02 AM

I can't really be of much help other than to say my only cast bullet load for the 8mm Mauser has been with a 180 gr moly coated non gas checked and with a max load of Trail Boss powder. While this has been a good performing load in a 98 Mauser and a 700 Remington, I have no idea of the velocity since I have never had a real need for a chrono. And loading data for the 8mm and TB powder does not seem to exist, that would show velocities if it did. Neither the Lyman cast bullet nor the 50th edition manuals are helpful. My only other 8mm bullet is a 190 gr that I use with the 8mm Rem mag and that is a good performer also, again with TB powder.

Jimro · June 24, 2016, 03:30 AM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I'm glad the OP isn't looking for velocity. The 8x57 cartridge is a really good cartridge for cast bullets, however a milsurp Mauser in 8x57 will have a twist of 1:240mm (or 1:9.47") which is too tight a twist for going much over 1,800 fps without over spinning the bullets and killing your accuracy. There are some folks who do stuff like adding trace amounts of copper to the bullet mix to get more velocity while maintaining accuracy, but it is pretty much agreed that you can't just substitute cast for jacketed with a stock Mauser barrel.

With all that said, lots of folks shoot cast bullets through Mauser rifles, especially for normal range hunting and silhouette matches. The Lee 8mm molds are cheap and plentiful (I have the standard 175gr 1R mold as well as the 8mm Max mold). I'm still waiting to cast some bullets and load them up, as I just got through year two of a three year overseas assignment (imagine being separated from your hobby for three years...) so hopefully next year I'll have my own data to share.

What follows is data I've collected over the years which I have not verified in any way. I was looking for the 8mm Max bullet data for use as a hunting bullet (heavy, wide meplat) and hope this is helpful in getting started.

Lee 8mm Max load data reported from users on other forums

WC860 in 8x57 with the 250 grain maximum, 6-25-05 70*F,
50-54 grs, 1801-1941 fps- 2.955 COAL, mag primer

250gr Lee Maximim sized .3265" w/LBT Blue
18-19gr AA5744
25-26gr AA2015
25-26gr Alliant Reloader 7
25-26gr H322

35-40gr AA4350 with magnum primers and 35gr grouped the best, but author was leery of SEE using that powder.

35.0 grs H-414 is too little powder - inconsistent ignition, possible detonation
38.0 grs H4198 is too much - pressure! The gun should handle it, but not the boolit
36.0 grs IMR4064 is just about right, 20 inch barrel, vel. 1650 fps. 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds. Should take care of anything short of a tank.

Other 8mm Bullets:
40.4 grs of H4350 using a 195 grain gc bullet. The muzzle velocity is about 2000 fps.
35gr of H4895 behind the Lee Karabiner, 1,850fps and fairly accurate

Hope this is helpful.

Jimro

Gavlan · June 24, 2016, 05:53 AM

This might help,
This is the heaviest bullet I cast for my mausers..

[IMG]

[/IMG]

5whiskey · June 24, 2016, 08:52 AM

Yeah I'm not trying to scream downrange with it Jimro. 2000fps with a 200+ grain bullet is plenty fast enough, and honestly isn't much under what American manufactured ammo will do in the 8mm, being downloaded for safety sake and all. My only concern with velocity is I would like for it to remain accurate (i.e. stay supersonic) to near 300 yards.

Your data was helpful. Thank you.

wpsdlrg · June 26, 2016, 09:47 AM

The method I used, in order to shoot cast in 8mm rifles, was paper-patching. I shot 170 grain cast, patched with ordinary lined notebook paper....to about 2100 fps. 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. The barrel stayed remarkably clean, too.

The process of paper- patching is relatively simple, but does require a bit of a learning curve. If interested, I'd suggest consulting the Cast Boolits forum. That's where I learned to do it.

dahermit · June 26, 2016, 01:44 PM

I used to load cast for 8x57 Mauser as well as several other centerfire rifles. I found that Rx7 would give the best accuracy. However, the loads were keep just under the speed of sound, at about 1,000 fps.
Most importantly, the bullets had to be of the nose, bore-rider type as most frequently used by Cast Lead Bullet Association competitors in their matches. We would check the fit of the nose to the bore by slipping a bullet into the muzzle. The nose portion had to be tight enough on top of the lands to required finger pressure...if they went in on by their own weight, the nose was not large enough in diameter and either a bullet from a different mold/stye was tried, or some of the guys would make dies that would "bump" the bullet nose slightly larger to get the desired fit.

June 23, 2016, 10:44 PM	#1
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	Loading cast in 8mm mauser So the question is just that. Anyone have tried and/or have good recipes for cast in 8x57? Logically it seems like it may do well with heavy cast pills, and wouldn't need to be downloaded a huge amount. Most 200+ grain loads published are around 2500 fps for middle of the road charges. I'm thinking a good hard cast should survive about 1700fps on the top end, around 2000 gas checked. So it shouldn't have to be downloaded a huge amount (with heavy projectiles) to work... At least thats what im thinking. My rifle is a yugo 24/47. Absolute blast of a rifle. It will hold a decent 2-3moa with the lightweight (158 gn?) Romanian surplus... Which is far from the best ammo to be found. Surplus is drying up (been dried up) and current load isn't cheap, nor is it usually optimally loaded. I've always been intrigued and wanted to try cast in a bottleneck rifle cartridge. So, does anyone have any experience?

June 24, 2016, 01:03 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I'm pretty much posting simply to subscribe and see what comments come in. I have an unknown "mystery Mauser" and was never happy in dealing with surplus, so most of my shooting over the years has been when I've good deals on .323" jacketed slugs for handloads. As I do not cast bullets and have no plans to do so going forward, I've been looking for other answers. And I began experimenting last year with reduced loads using Red Dot under Xtreme plated 123gr 7.62x39 (.311") heavy plated slugs. It's a project that got shelved when winter moved in and I haven't gotten back to it. Early returns seemed positive. However, I don't have any REAL special use for my 8x57, I just have fun trying to ring steel from 100-300 yards. It'd be foolish to, say, hunt with these low-cost bullets. If there are commercially cast -AND- affordable 8mm lead slugs available, I might try going down that road also. But if I have to cast them myself, I'm out. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

June 24, 2016, 02:02 AM	#3
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	I can't really be of much help other than to say my only cast bullet load for the 8mm Mauser has been with a 180 gr moly coated non gas checked and with a max load of Trail Boss powder. While this has been a good performing load in a 98 Mauser and a 700 Remington, I have no idea of the velocity since I have never had a real need for a chrono. And loading data for the 8mm and TB powder does not seem to exist, that would show velocities if it did. Neither the Lyman cast bullet nor the 50th edition manuals are helpful. My only other 8mm bullet is a 190 gr that I use with the 8mm Rem mag and that is a good performer also, again with TB powder. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

June 24, 2016, 03:30 AM	#4
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. I'm glad the OP isn't looking for velocity. The 8x57 cartridge is a really good cartridge for cast bullets, however a milsurp Mauser in 8x57 will have a twist of 1:240mm (or 1:9.47") which is too tight a twist for going much over 1,800 fps without over spinning the bullets and killing your accuracy. There are some folks who do stuff like adding trace amounts of copper to the bullet mix to get more velocity while maintaining accuracy, but it is pretty much agreed that you can't just substitute cast for jacketed with a stock Mauser barrel. With all that said, lots of folks shoot cast bullets through Mauser rifles, especially for normal range hunting and silhouette matches. The Lee 8mm molds are cheap and plentiful (I have the standard 175gr 1R mold as well as the 8mm Max mold). I'm still waiting to cast some bullets and load them up, as I just got through year two of a three year overseas assignment (imagine being separated from your hobby for three years...) so hopefully next year I'll have my own data to share. What follows is data I've collected over the years which I have not verified in any way. I was looking for the 8mm Max bullet data for use as a hunting bullet (heavy, wide meplat) and hope this is helpful in getting started. Lee 8mm Max load data reported from users on other forums WC860 in 8x57 with the 250 grain maximum, 6-25-05 70*F, 50-54 grs, 1801-1941 fps- 2.955 COAL, mag primer 250gr Lee Maximim sized .3265" w/LBT Blue 18-19gr AA5744 25-26gr AA2015 25-26gr Alliant Reloader 7 25-26gr H322 35-40gr AA4350 with magnum primers and 35gr grouped the best, but author was leery of SEE using that powder. 35.0 grs H-414 is too little powder - inconsistent ignition, possible detonation 38.0 grs H4198 is too much - pressure! The gun should handle it, but not the boolit 36.0 grs IMR4064 is just about right, 20 inch barrel, vel. 1650 fps. 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds. Should take care of anything short of a tank. Other 8mm Bullets: 40.4 grs of H4350 using a 195 grain gc bullet. The muzzle velocity is about 2000 fps. 35gr of H4895 behind the Lee Karabiner, 1,850fps and fairly accurate Hope this is helpful. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

June 24, 2016, 05:53 AM	#5
Gavlan Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2015 Posts: 108	This might help, This is the heaviest bullet I cast for my mausers.. [IMG][/IMG]

June 24, 2016, 08:52 AM	#6
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	Yeah I'm not trying to scream downrange with it Jimro. 2000fps with a 200+ grain bullet is plenty fast enough, and honestly isn't much under what American manufactured ammo will do in the 8mm, being downloaded for safety sake and all. My only concern with velocity is I would like for it to remain accurate (i.e. stay supersonic) to near 300 yards. Your data was helpful. Thank you.

June 26, 2016, 09:47 AM	#7
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	The method I used, in order to shoot cast in 8mm rifles, was paper-patching. I shot 170 grain cast, patched with ordinary lined notebook paper....to about 2100 fps. 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. The barrel stayed remarkably clean, too. The process of paper- patching is relatively simple, but does require a bit of a learning curve. If interested, I'd suggest consulting the Cast Boolits forum. That's where I learned to do it.

June 26, 2016, 01:44 PM	#8
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I used to load cast for 8x57 Mauser as well as several other centerfire rifles. I found that Rx7 would give the best accuracy. However, the loads were keep just under the speed of sound, at about 1,000 fps. Most importantly, the bullets had to be of the nose, bore-rider type as most frequently used by Cast Lead Bullet Association competitors in their matches. We would check the fit of the nose to the bore by slipping a bullet into the muzzle. The nose portion had to be tight enough on top of the lands to required finger pressure...if they went in on by their own weight, the nose was not large enough in diameter and either a bullet from a different mold/stye was tried, or some of the guys would make dies that would "bump" the bullet nose slightly larger to get the desired fit.