Titegroup for 9mm 124 Grain Plated

Tony C · April 10, 2015, 03:08 PM

I want to load 9mm in 124 grain plated round nose bullets using Hodgdon Titegroup.

On the Hodgdon website, they list three close rounds.
1) 124 Grain Berry's Thick Plated Hollow Base
2) 125 Grain Sierra FMJ
3) 125 Grain LCN (Lead Cone Nose)

How do I know which to load to? I want to use these for USPSA, so I will need to get them above 1,000 fps, but I also want to be safe.

Thanks for the help,
Tony

jwrowland77 · April 10, 2015, 03:11 PM

I use the Berry Plated load data

9mmSkeeter · April 10, 2015, 04:29 PM

I've used that combination. 3.7 grains of tight group under the 124 gn berrys worked well for me in every gun. I also occasionally use a little lighter load in 3.5 grains but it had trouble cycling in my px4 compact.

jimbob86 · April 10, 2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

I want to use these for USPSA, so I will need to get them above 1,000 fps, but I also want to be safe.

Good luck with that ...... what are you measuring your powder with, and what gun are you trying to make 1,000 f/sec in with this load?

Max loads of high density fast burning powders, loaded on progressive equipment for competition ...... if you were using it in a Glock chambered in .40S&W, why, then you'd have the KB Trifecta!

Why not use a slower powder? Sure, you'd use a little more, but there's certainly more of a pressure curve safety margin with them. Ask yourself how many pounds of Tite-Group you'd have to burn to pay for a new gun...... or the bill from the Orthopedic Surgeon......

Tony C · April 10, 2015, 10:02 PM

I am using Titegroup because I only have that and Clays. I use the Clays for my .45 LRN. I am in the Portland, Oregon area powder has been hard to find.

My pistol is the 5.25" XDm. I haven't cronographed anything yet, so I have no idea if I can reach the minimum 125 power (which would be the 1,000 fps or more).

What powder would you recommend? I don't know which are slower and which are faster.

Thanks

GJSchulze · April 11, 2015, 12:35 AM

I use the same gun for both USPSA and IDPA. I love this gun.

I use 147 gr FMJ-TC with 4.2 gr of Power Pistol. I've also used 3.2 gr of Titegroup. PP gives me a PF of 130. I have also used 5.0 gr of PP with 124 gr jacketed hollow points.

The issue I see with Titegroup is that the margin of error is small. Quickload says that with a Ranier 124 gr RN 3.6 will give you a PF of 125, but 4.0 will be close to maximum pressure. I suspect that you will need at least 3.7 to cycle the slide reliably. I'd have to agree that you should use something else. My preference is PP, but Unique, Universal, and Accurate #5 all have nearly the same burn rate. You can Google for smokeless burn rate chart.

Gun suggestions: trigger kit from Springer Precision to lower and shorten trigger pull and reset. This trigger is from Springfield and is legal for USPSA and IDPA. 14 lb recoil spring from Wolff. YouTube has videos on how to replace the trigger. Watch several different ones.

jimbob86 · April 11, 2015, 01:34 PM

Power Pistol is a good choice for max velocity 9mm loads. I get 1100+ with 115gr jacket bullets out of a 3" barrel with 6.4gr ..... It is a bit flashy with the short barrel .....

You should have no problem getting 1,000 f/sec with the 5 1/4" tube and a even a start load, and the longer barrel will mitigate the "flashy" issue..... it meters really well, too, and is bulky enough to preclude a double charge. Note that velocities over 1100 f/sec might lead to leading issues, depending upon the sizing and/or hardness of your bullets.

vN340 looks like it'd work well, too .....though I've only ever used it for .45ACP pin loads ..... it also meters well, and is more economical than the PP ..... it's just darn hard to find, and can be expensive when you do find it.

Some guys swear by Red Dot and Green Dot ..... I tried Red Dot- metering issues make me not like it.

vaalpens · April 11, 2015, 04:34 PM

Use the Berry's data but don't load too many rounds at the MIN load since you will probably find that the ejection and cycling will be weak. I have loaded Xtreme 124gr RN plated and started with the Berrys HB load data on the Hodgdon site without any issues.

Enjoy and be safe.

Schnitzjr · April 13, 2015, 09:15 PM

I'm loading 115 plated bullets with 4.0 gr Titegroup with much success.
Soft shooting and accurate.

NorthernBlue · January 5, 2017, 06:19 AM

I know it's old, but why not add to it. I have been running about 1500 rounds of 9mm loaded with 115 gr Berrys Plated RN, CCI 550 primer, and 4.2 grains of Titegroup. Cycles my Glock 19, 43, and M&P 9c just fine. The G19 gets about 1150 fps out of it.

Don P · January 5, 2017, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Good luck with that ...... what are you measuring your powder with, and what gun are you trying to make 1,000 f/sec in with this load?

Max loads of high density fast burning powders, loaded on progressive equipment for competition ...... if you were using it in a Glock chambered in .40S&W, why, then you'd have the KB Trifecta!

Why not use a slower powder? Sure, you'd use a little more, but there's certainly more of a pressure curve safety margin with them. Ask yourself how many pounds of Tite-Group you'd have to burn to pay for a new gun...... or the bill from the Orthopedic Surgeon.....

A whole bunch of what if's here.
Titegroup will be fine and there should be no problem making minor power factor. I haven't seen a whole lot of 124 grain 40S&W bullets being the OP stated 9 mm

Mobuck · January 5, 2017, 08:26 AM

I have a personal rule against pushing either TiteGroup or plated bullets hard.

Doublehelix3216 · January 5, 2017, 09:28 AM

I have a load that I like with the 124 gr. Berry's plated RN and Titegroup, but it is at the top end of the recommended loads, so as always work your load up slowly and methodically to see what works best in your gun.

I have been loading 4.1 gr. of Titegroup with an OAL of 1.150.

No guarantees that this is a good or safe load with your gun, so as always be safe and check your workups at each step as you approach this load to check for over pressure.

robhic · January 5, 2017, 10:13 AM

See if this might be of interest: http://cakesniffer.org/stuff/boom/RanierData.pdf

It's the info for Ranier Ballistics and they make plated bullets. They make (I think...) the bullets sold under Midway's brand, too. All different weights for different calibers including the 124gr plated 9mm and a bunch of other/different bullets.

Don P · January 5, 2017, 06:15 PM

Quote:

I have a personal rule against pushing either TiteGroup or plated bullets hard.

I'm shooting 135 grain coated lead over 3.7 grains of Titegroup and Chrono at just under 1045 fps. That's not pushing either too hard

Nick_C_S · January 5, 2017, 10:01 PM

Quote:

I have a personal rule against pushing either TiteGroup or plated bullets hard.

So do I.

I am certainly not saying it can't be done, or it's dangerous, etc. Nothing like that.

It's just my "rule" as a matter of application. In the world known as my loading style, the primary application for both plated bullets and TiteGroup is to make good consistent range shooter ammo. And so it follows - not coincidentally - that I often use the two in the same loading.

Tsquared · January 7, 2017, 10:53 AM

I have used TiteGroup but it is one of my "last resort" powders for 9mm. It is a fast burn powder that has a small window within published load data where it works well. Getting a 124gr bullet over 1000fps with it is not going to be too big of a problem. I would not use it on uncoated lead due to the quick pressure jump characteristics of the powder.

You will find all kinds of published load data that is similar but just a little bit different. My Sierra and Speer manual list the same load weight for 124 bullet designs but with different COAL for each (Sierra has a lower start weight but both max out at 4.4 gr as max load for 124 gr bullets). I have other manuals and the Hodgon webpage that have different loads for specific bullet designs.

For your requirement to be above 1000fps and on the plated bullets I would start at 3.8gr and work the load up to a max of 4.4 gr in .2 gr increments to see what works best with your bullets keeping the speed below 1250fps. Your FMJ can be pushed much faster and is not an issue. For your LCN you need to go to a much slower burning powder to prevent any leading or poly coat and treat it like a plated bullet.

sbwaters · January 9, 2017, 09:15 PM

I have a new 9MM CZ-75B I am working up for IDPA. Ramshot Silhouette is slower, fills the case more, doesn’t smoke or flash, works well with 124, 125 gr, meters easily, and can meet power factor +5% easily.

Berrys plated was quite accurate. You can download the Ramshot load data and work up for your pistol.

BTW, I love TiteGroup for my .45 1911, just not for 9MM.

April 10, 2015, 03:08 PM	#1
Tony C Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 293	Titegroup for 9mm 124 Grain Plated I want to load 9mm in 124 grain plated round nose bullets using Hodgdon Titegroup. On the Hodgdon website, they list three close rounds. 1) 124 Grain Berry's Thick Plated Hollow Base 2) 125 Grain Sierra FMJ 3) 125 Grain LCN (Lead Cone Nose) How do I know which to load to? I want to use these for USPSA, so I will need to get them above 1,000 fps, but I also want to be safe. Thanks for the help, Tony

April 10, 2015, 04:29 PM	#3
9mmSkeeter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Location: South Dakota Posts: 205	I've used that combination. 3.7 grains of tight group under the 124 gn berrys worked well for me in every gun. I also occasionally use a little lighter load in 3.5 grains but it had trouble cycling in my px4 compact. __________________ I kind of like weaponry.

January 5, 2017, 10:13 AM	#14
robhic Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2016 Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA. Posts: 313	See if this might be of interest: http://cakesniffer.org/stuff/boom/RanierData.pdf It's the info for Ranier Ballistics and they make plated bullets. They make (I think...) the bullets sold under Midway's brand, too. All different weights for different calibers including the 124gr plated 9mm and a bunch of other/different bullets. __________________ - Robert

January 9, 2017, 09:15 PM	#18
sbwaters Member Join Date: March 3, 2016 Posts: 16	Try Ramshot Silhouette I have a new 9MM CZ-75B I am working up for IDPA. Ramshot Silhouette is slower, fills the case more, doesn’t smoke or flash, works well with 124, 125 gr, meters easily, and can meet power factor +5% easily. Berrys plated was quite accurate. You can download the Ramshot load data and work up for your pistol. BTW, I love TiteGroup for my .45 1911, just not for 9MM.

April 10, 2015, 03:11 PM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	I use the Berry Plated load data

April 10, 2015, 10:02 PM	#5
Tony C Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 293	Jim Bob 86 I am using Titegroup because I only have that and Clays. I use the Clays for my .45 LRN. I am in the Portland, Oregon area powder has been hard to find. My pistol is the 5.25" XDm. I haven't cronographed anything yet, so I have no idea if I can reach the minimum 125 power (which would be the 1,000 fps or more). What powder would you recommend? I don't know which are slower and which are faster. Thanks

April 11, 2015, 12:35 AM	#6
GJSchulze Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2013 Location: Western New York Posts: 454	I use the same gun for both USPSA and IDPA. I love this gun. I use 147 gr FMJ-TC with 4.2 gr of Power Pistol. I've also used 3.2 gr of Titegroup. PP gives me a PF of 130. I have also used 5.0 gr of PP with 124 gr jacketed hollow points. The issue I see with Titegroup is that the margin of error is small. Quickload says that with a Ranier 124 gr RN 3.6 will give you a PF of 125, but 4.0 will be close to maximum pressure. I suspect that you will need at least 3.7 to cycle the slide reliably. I'd have to agree that you should use something else. My preference is PP, but Unique, Universal, and Accurate #5 all have nearly the same burn rate. You can Google for smokeless burn rate chart. Gun suggestions: trigger kit from Springer Precision to lower and shorten trigger pull and reset. This trigger is from Springfield and is legal for USPSA and IDPA. 14 lb recoil spring from Wolff. YouTube has videos on how to replace the trigger. Watch several different ones.

April 11, 2015, 01:34 PM	#7
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Power Pistol is a good choice for max velocity 9mm loads. I get 1100+ with 115gr jacket bullets out of a 3" barrel with 6.4gr ..... It is a bit flashy with the short barrel ..... You should have no problem getting 1,000 f/sec with the 5 1/4" tube and a even a start load, and the longer barrel will mitigate the "flashy" issue..... it meters really well, too, and is bulky enough to preclude a double charge. Note that velocities over 1100 f/sec might lead to leading issues, depending upon the sizing and/or hardness of your bullets. vN340 looks like it'd work well, too .....though I've only ever used it for .45ACP pin loads ..... it also meters well, and is more economical than the PP ..... it's just darn hard to find, and can be expensive when you do find it. Some guys swear by Red Dot and Green Dot ..... I tried Red Dot- metering issues make me not like it.

April 11, 2015, 04:34 PM	#8
vaalpens Member Join Date: March 5, 2015 Posts: 44	Use the Berry's data but don't load too many rounds at the MIN load since you will probably find that the ejection and cycling will be weak. I have loaded Xtreme 124gr RN plated and started with the Berrys HB load data on the Hodgdon site without any issues. Enjoy and be safe.

April 13, 2015, 09:15 PM	#9
Schnitzjr Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2012 Posts: 108	I'm loading 115 plated bullets with 4.0 gr Titegroup with much success. Soft shooting and accurate.

January 5, 2017, 06:19 AM	#10
NorthernBlue Member Join Date: July 29, 2016 Location: Alaska Posts: 56	I know it's old, but why not add to it. I have been running about 1500 rounds of 9mm loaded with 115 gr Berrys Plated RN, CCI 550 primer, and 4.2 grains of Titegroup. Cycles my Glock 19, 43, and M&P 9c just fine. The G19 gets about 1150 fps out of it.

January 5, 2017, 08:26 AM	#12
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I have a personal rule against pushing either TiteGroup or plated bullets hard.

January 5, 2017, 09:28 AM	#13
Doublehelix3216 Member Join Date: December 4, 2016 Posts: 76	I have a load that I like with the 124 gr. Berry's plated RN and Titegroup, but it is at the top end of the recommended loads, so as always work your load up slowly and methodically to see what works best in your gun. I have been loading 4.1 gr. of Titegroup with an OAL of 1.150. No guarantees that this is a good or safe load with your gun, so as always be safe and check your workups at each step as you approach this load to check for over pressure.

January 7, 2017, 10:53 AM	#17
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	I have used TiteGroup but it is one of my "last resort" powders for 9mm. It is a fast burn powder that has a small window within published load data where it works well. Getting a 124gr bullet over 1000fps with it is not going to be too big of a problem. I would not use it on uncoated lead due to the quick pressure jump characteristics of the powder. You will find all kinds of published load data that is similar but just a little bit different. My Sierra and Speer manual list the same load weight for 124 bullet designs but with different COAL for each (Sierra has a lower start weight but both max out at 4.4 gr as max load for 124 gr bullets). I have other manuals and the Hodgon webpage that have different loads for specific bullet designs. For your requirement to be above 1000fps and on the plated bullets I would start at 3.8gr and work the load up to a max of 4.4 gr in .2 gr increments to see what works best with your bullets keeping the speed below 1250fps. Your FMJ can be pushed much faster and is not an issue. For your LCN you need to go to a much slower burning powder to prevent any leading or poly coat and treat it like a plated bullet.