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Old October 17, 2011, 12:58 AM   #76
BDS-THR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry
I do have a FCD for the .45 ACP, but the resizing ring never touched it (even with lead 1 to 2 thousandth's over-sized).
And hence the FCD controversy. Some say it does and some say it doesn't. Perhaps Lee enlarged the carbide sizer ring in the FCD over the years?

If they did, it would defeat the original purpose of "ironing out" the jacketed diameter bullets ... I am not sure at this point.
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Old October 17, 2011, 05:35 AM   #77
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1.) "The ammunition turns out better and more uniform"...false. 2.) "I don't shave lead when I seat and crimp in 2 steps"...neither do I, this is a sign of too much taper crimp. 3.) "My rounds won't feed properly if I don't use it"... one of your other dies is not set up properly.
How about

4) because Lee makes it and recommends its use to produce the best-quality ammo, and 5) because I have no problem doing an extra step and paying an extra 10 bucks for a die if it makes reloading a more foolproof process.

Not sure why you keep going on and on about this... the horse died about two pages ago.
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Old October 17, 2011, 09:32 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by spacecoast
Not sure why you keep going on and on about this
For me, reloading steps and process are fairly factual and exact. However there's seems to be inconsistencies as to whether FCD is necessary and reloaders are both claiming whether FCD post-sizes or not (and that's what I was trying nail down, from Lee Precision who makes the FCD). Don't worry, looks like I am throwing the towel on this as there was no definite conclusion other than FCD was meant for use with jacketed diameter bullets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 603Country
I have the Lee 4 die set in 9 mm, and the 4th die (with carbide) is the factory crimp die. ... do I really need to use that 4th die, and why?

I use a single stage press and don't want to run all that ammo through one more die if it isn't necessary.
As to OP's question, no. You do not need to run all the finished rounds through the FCD one more step IF the 3 dies are adjusted properly to feed/chamber reliably.

Peace.
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Old October 17, 2011, 09:50 AM   #79
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LOL! "Because Lee makes it and recommends its use to produce the best-quality ammunition." Hmmm....


Don't ALL reloading-equipment manufacturers claim this??

And actually this thread did not die 2 pages ago. You claim that the FCD makes the reloading process "fool proof."

We are just wondering how. We are trying to get at root issue here of whether or not the carbide ring actually does anything. Does it for you?

I am not trying to be a jerk, hot-head or troll.

Lots of people have the hardest time getting their 3rd die set up properly to both seat the bullet and crimp it. Here is how I do it:

1. Put a case that has been sized and flared into the shell holder. Lower the handle on your press, which will raise the case to the top of the stroke. Then, screw the seating/crimp die into the press until you feel the crimping portion of the die contact the case mouth. Once this happens, back the die out one full turn. Tighten lock ring.

2. Make sure your bullet seating stem is backed almost all the way out. Put a bullet in the case and run it up into the die. At the top of the stroke, run your seating stem down untill you feel it contact the tip of the bullet. Lower ram and continue to screw in seating stem until you have seated the bullet to your desired COL (cartridge overall length).

3. Now, back your seating stem almost all the way out. Run the round back into the die. Loosen your die lock ring and screw the die body down untill you feel it come in contact with the case mouth (again...you did this in step #1). Once it comes in contact, you know that as you screw the die body down further, you will be applying more crimp. Keep screwing the die body down until you have achieved your desired amount of crimp. Once achieved, tighten die lock ring.

4. Run the round back up into the die and at the top of the stroke, screw in your seating stem until it comes in firm contact with the bullet. Now you can seat and crimp with the same die with no problems. Remember, the taper crimp just removes the flare. It should not dig into the side of the bullet.

Good luck and I hope this helps save some time and money at the reloading bench!
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Old October 17, 2011, 10:00 AM   #80
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Good luck and I hope this helps save some time and money at the reloading bench!
Sorry, but it does neither. Your process sounds a lot more complicated than seating and crimping with different dies, a process with which I am extremely comfortable. I don't really have money to throw away on mistakes. Just two different ways of arriving at the same result, hopefully your reloads work as well as mine do.
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Old October 17, 2011, 10:11 AM   #81
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Sorry, but it does neither.
OK.
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Old October 17, 2011, 12:38 PM   #82
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Ok, here's the latest feedback, and I have a question. As for the feedback, I used the FCD die on a bunch of reloads and didn't see even the slightest impact on the reloads, except that I could increase the taper crimp if I wanted to. Nothing else on the reloads touched the inside of the die. But, I still didn't have the free movement of the reloads when dropped into the Beretta PX4 Storm's barrel chamber that I have with factory ammo. So I drank coffee and thought about it. Then I took a dummy round, dropped it into the chamber and with pliers I gently turned it in place for a few turns. When I pulled out the dummy reload, there was obvious scuffing on the Sierra 115 grain JHP where it was touching the lands (touching something). The scuffing was on what I'll call the leading shoulder of the JHP bullet, right where the bullet starts to taper toward the front of the bullet. Hmmm, so I made another dummy round and seated the bullet way out and the round wouldn't chamber. I successively seated the bullet deeper in small steps until the bullet quit touching the lands at an overall cartridge length of 1.08 inches. The recommended min length, per Lyman 49th Edition, is 1.09 inches. I'm using 5 grains of Unique behind the 115 gr Sierra JHP, which is a midrange load. Most reloading info makes a firm point about not loading the bullet deeper than recommended, since that can or will will spike pressures dramatically. Am I, in your opinion, Ok with the OAL of 1.08 inches? I took a handful of them and blasted a few soda pop cans, and could see no sign of excessive pressure or feeding/ejecting problems.
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Old October 17, 2011, 01:54 PM   #83
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Am I, in your opinion, Ok with the OAL of 1.08 inches?
It sounds reasonable, but I think we would have to see a picture of the bullet both before and after seating in order to make an informed judgment. I load all my 9mm rounds to 1.14", but then again I use Berry's plated round nose bullets (whether 115, 124 or 147 gr.), which are going to naturally be a bit longer given the bullet profile.
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Old October 17, 2011, 06:24 PM   #84
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Am I, in your opinion, Ok with the OAL of 1.08 inches?
Sounds like a good place to start. I have a CZ that is known for having a short chamber. I have to load certain brand FP's and HP's to 1.036 to get them to chamber.
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Old October 17, 2011, 06:41 PM   #85
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Spacecoast, as for the Sierra bullets, I don't have a picture, but will say that the bullet isn't smoothly tapered toward the HP end like a Hornaday XP is. I doubt that a tapered JHP would touch the lands like the Sierra does. The Sierra has more of a distinct bend as it gets toward the front of the bullet, rather than a taper. Anyway, I've got 500 of the Ranier 115 plated JHP's coming my way any day now, so I'll shoot them for a while.

I feel OK about the 1.08 OAL, so I'll go with that on the Sierra's but will most likely buy Hornady bullets next time.

Thanks much, all you guys, for the very good info that you provided. I do appreciate it.
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Old October 17, 2011, 10:52 PM   #86
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You are welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by 603Country
Thanks much, all you guys, for the very good info that you provided. I do appreciate it.
Well, you did all the work. But what's more, you successfully navigated through all the disagreements and discovered some of the truths that lie between the prejudices and discovered the biggest advantage of rolling your own ammunition.

1) Understanding your firearm.

Congratulations. Relying on your own powers of observation and intellect can be very satisfying.

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Old October 17, 2011, 11:03 PM   #87
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Thanks, IllinoisCoyoteHunter

IllinoisCoyoteHunter,

Thanks for posting your steps for installing/adjusting your crimp/seat combination die. Almost exactly the opposite of how I do it, but will work equally well. Better for anyone who can visualize it. It also is very close to what 603Country did to find out the OAL that fits his bullets' ogive profile and gun's chamber. I expect he will settle on your method if he doesn't stick with the FCD.

Find a way that works for you, perfect it and stick with it. Works for me.

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Old October 18, 2011, 10:35 AM   #88
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Just for info, I have no intention of using the FCD from now forward. Still, if I wrinkle a case or three I'll see if the FCD can fix the mistake. I've got the seating die working fine now, with a good crimp and proper OAL bullet seating. Only problem I have right now is that the ordered bullets have not arrived, though they were promised to arrive yesterday. I've loaded all the rifle bullets I needed to load (4 calibers) and I've caught up on 357's and 38's, so now I guess I wait for the UPS guy.

And, just for info, I'm switching to W231 powder from the Unique that I've used so far. The Unique is, as I already knew, hard to meter consistently. I figure a ball powder will meter much more accurately than a wafer/flake type powder.
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Old October 18, 2011, 10:39 AM   #89
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You are quite welcome Lost Sheep and others that can use the info.

I remember when I started and setting up that third die was tricky. When someone else taught me this method it made life much easier.

Hope it helps!
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Old October 18, 2011, 12:25 PM   #90
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IllinoisCoyoteHunter,

The instructions that you posted in post #79 is almost exactly what RCBS instructions say for setting up their seating/crimp dies. I set mine up like they (and you) say, just enough to take the flare out of 9mm case mouths, and it works like a charm.
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Old November 9, 2011, 11:11 AM   #91
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Thousands of reloaders over the years have loaded 100's of thousands of rounds of pistol calibers from .32 ACP to .45 Colt without the FCD and without failures to feed, fire, or eject.

There are plenty of crimp only dies that crimp as well as the FCD that can be used to crimp in a fourth step. Lee makes them as well. There is nothing magic about the crimping feature of the FCD.

The one application where the FCD seems to be a good idea is IDPA etc, where the reloader is more concerned about an out of spec round getting through and a failure to feed during competition than the finest accuracy. They do not want to take the time to gauge each loaded round and the FCD eliminates the need to do so.
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Old February 11, 2012, 02:13 PM   #92
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Lots of people have the hardest time getting their 3rd die set up properly to both seat the bullet and crimp it. Here is how I do it:

1. Put a case that has been sized and flared into the shell holder. Lower the handle on your press, which will raise the case to the top of the stroke. Then, screw the seating/crimp die into the press until you feel the crimping portion of the die contact the case mouth. Once this happens, back the die out one full turn. Tighten lock ring.

2. Make sure your bullet seating stem is backed almost all the way out. Put a bullet in the case and run it up into the die. At the top of the stroke, run your seating stem down untill you feel it contact the tip of the bullet. Lower ram and continue to screw in seating stem until you have seated the bullet to your desired COL (cartridge overall length).

3. Now, back your seating stem almost all the way out. Run the round back into the die. Loosen your die lock ring and screw the die body down untill you feel it come in contact with the case mouth (again...you did this in step #1). Once it comes in contact, you know that as you screw the die body down further, you will be applying more crimp. Keep screwing the die body down until you have achieved your desired amount of crimp. Once achieved, tighten die lock ring.

4. Run the round back up into the die and at the top of the stroke, screw in your seating stem until it comes in firm contact with the bullet. Now you can seat and crimp with the same die with no problems. Remember, the taper crimp just removes the flare. It should not dig into the side of the bullet
------------------------------------------
Sorry to dig up an old thread but I'm trying to figure out where I'm going wrong with the above instructions. This is my first attempt at reloading so that may have something to do with it. I'm using Lee Carbite 3 die set for 380 on a rockchucker press. The bullets are Ranier 100gr RNFMJ.

In step 2 after putting a bullet in the case and runnining it up into the die I try to tighten down the seating die until it makes contact with the top of the bullet but the seating die ends up bottoming out before it ever contacts the bullet. What am I doing wrong?

By trial and error I ended up getting the die set to give an acceptible crimp and proper seating but I wasted 5 dummy rounds in the process. I'd like to find an instruction set that would dial me in without so many wasted dummy rounds. I didn't find the instructions that came with the die set to be very helpful. Thanks...
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Old February 12, 2012, 06:19 PM   #93
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I use the fcd for 10mm, 380, and 45. Doesn't ever touch any of my ammo (cast or jacketed).

To be truthful, I really only use it because I have a lee classic turret press. Might as well seat and crimp in 2 separate stations if I'm gonna be pulling the handle anyway. Lee should make a 3 hole turret for the LCTP.
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Old February 12, 2012, 10:10 PM   #94
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Quote:
looks like I am throwing the towel on this as there was no definite conclusion other than FCD was meant for use with jacketed diameter bullets.
Well actually it works with jacketed and lead bullets.

Quote:
Thousands of reloaders over the years have loaded 100's of thousands of rounds of pistol calibers from .32 ACP to .45 Colt without the FCD and without failures to feed, fire, or eject.
Very true. People also made the same amount of ammo without a powder cop die, lockout die and I'm sure other tools. It's funny that everybody thinks it's fine to get lazy and depend on those dies to make safe ammo instead of having to pay attention. I guess if Lee made them there would be a problem though.
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Old February 13, 2012, 12:15 AM   #95
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Quote:
In step 2 after putting a bullet in the case and runnining it up into the die I try to tighten down the seating die until it makes contact with the top of the bullet but the seating die ends up bottoming out before it ever contacts the bullet. What am I doing wrong?
You need to be adjusting your seating stem (knurled knob on the top of the die) at that point, not the entire die.

Edit: As it would be pretty tough to bottom out the die, I'm going to assume you're talking about the seating stem. The Lee 380 seating die is really tight. If you're flaring too much, it may be making contact well before it should, leaving the die too high to seat the bullet with this method. Make sure you're just flaring enough to be able to get around the bullet, no more, and try just backing off the die 1/4 of a turn instead of a full turn in step 1. All you're trying to do is seat the bullet without crimping, and 1/4 of a turn or even less should be enough to get that done.

Last edited by Scimmia; February 13, 2012 at 01:16 AM.
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Old February 13, 2012, 11:45 AM   #96
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And I built a Model 1911, not one part used for the build had ever seen one of the other parts, but when finished, it took to new, unfired, over the counter, factor ammo, it worked flawlessly, but I am a reloader, so I loaded up 200 rounds and wasted my time at the range, lucky for me I want to get my moneys worth, meaning one fail to feed, load, shoot anything never ruins my day. After comparing my reloads with new factory, over the counter ammo I determine my cases looked like they swallowed a bullet, so I used a RCBS full length carbide sizer die to remove the appearance of the case having swallowed a bullet, I went back to the range and shot the reloads, the pistol did not know the difference between my reloads and new factory ammo.

Then I informed another shooter/reloader about THAT pistol he said, “not a problem, I load for 5 1911s and I will meet you at the range and we will solve the problem”, and I said “but...” and there were no buts, I met him at the range and his ammo looked like his cases swallowed the bullets, and, his ammo did not work, there were at least 5 45 ACP pistols at the range, his ammo worked flawlessly in all of them, except my new build, I took 200 of his rounds home, sized his cases, returned and my 1911 thought the cases were new, store bought, over the counter, factory ammo. And he said “we need to fix that and if it was not for the accuracy we would”. So, we applied the ‘leaver policy, we are going to leaver the way we founder.

And there is nothing I can do when it comes to reloading someone else has not already done it 10,000 times, meaning there are shooters, being a shooter is the best way to work through problems before there are problems, and that is the reason there are difference in die designs, and I said “I size my 45 ACP cases with a carbide sizer die to remove the appearance of having swallowed a bullet” and they said if you do it once, we do it 10,000 times, we found it worked, we tested other dies, then we changed the design of out dies. And I said I was not going to start over on dies, if my dies do not work in your press etc., and they said it was OK to use my dies in their press, and they added there are a lot of reloaders that use their press and other manufactures dies. And I thought that was nice.

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Old February 13, 2012, 12:22 PM   #97
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I'm sorry for a late response on this but didn't read the thread till now,but I have a question about Lee's letter back about the fcd and the use of "larger than spec" bullets.Didn't he just claim that if someone is using oversize bullets (because their barrels slugs big)they should stop using them and use the "correct" spec.bullet? Did I read that wrong or does he not know that many barrels require bullets that are oversize to shoot accurate and not lead up the barrel?
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Last edited by dunerjeff; February 13, 2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old February 14, 2012, 09:01 AM   #98
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Quote:
As it would be pretty tough to bottom out the die, I'm going to assume you're talking about the seating stem. The Lee 380 seating die is really tight. If you're flaring too much, it may be making contact well before it should, leaving the die too high to seat the bullet with this method. Make sure you're just flaring enough to be able to get around the bullet, no more, and try just backing off the die 1/4 of a turn instead of a full turn in step 1. All you're trying to do is seat the bullet without crimping, and 1/4 of a turn or even less should be enough to get that done.
Thanks to Scimmia for solving my problem. The lee die is really tight and was catching the cartridge bell...
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