Berrys vs. Powerbond PIC HEAVY

[Longdayjake]

Many of you know that I sell powerbond bullets, and I recommend using jacketed data for them and not load them as you would another plated bullet. I caught a lot of flame for claiming that powerbond was superior to berry's. Well, as promised I did a little bit of side by side testing with the berry's and powerbond bullets. I am personally very very pleased with the results as they show to me that the powerbond are indeed a superior bullet. Berry's are cheaper though so in this case you get what you pay for.

side by side picture. Powerbond on the left and Berry's on the right.
First thing I noticed with the berry's is that they have small dents all over them. I imagine this is from the bullets smashing together durning shipping. The Powerbond do not have this except for an occasional bump on one or two.



close up of powerbond



close up of berrys



Next I smashed them with a hammer. Powerbond is on the left and berry's is on the right. You can see that the berrys has a lot more lead showing. The berry's started showing lead after just the second hit with the hammer. The Powerbond's thicker plating held up until the very last smack with the hammer. I also noticed that the powerbond required a harder hit to flaten it out.

[Longdayjake]

This picture I flatened them out sideways to see how they would do. Powerbond is the one on top.



other side



So, I loaded some side by side to try out the crimp. First try loading the berry's I stripped the plating right off the side. My setup does not have a case mouth expander die so that problem would probably be eliminated with a good bell on the case mouth. I think the berry's are .356 though so that may have had a little to do with it as well. I tried to place the powerbond in at an angle to see if it would do the same, but it held up great.



Both bullets held up to a very heavy taper crimp.



I loaded several of both, trying different amounts of crimp. I noticed another difference between the two. The berrys all deformed on the tip of the bullet. I don't know why the berry's would do that and not the powerbond, but it should be evident by the next picture. The berrys are below the powerbond. There are more berry's in the picture because I had to redo two of them that I stripped the plating off of before I could test the crimp.





I think that both brands are shootable, but the powerbond did better in my limited test. Another thing I noticed about the berry's is that after I pulled them, the bases were deformed from pushing them in the casing. This may be solved by a good belling of the case though. Anyway, I have yet to shoot both of them but eventually I will get a chance.


Both bullets took a crimp just fine.

[bedlamite]

So, you're saying improper loading technique may damage bullets that your competition sells? Nice commercial

[Longdayjake]

You may call it improper, but I load thousands of bullets that way with no problems. Its no different than rifle reloading. A bell is not always necessary. Unless of course you are using berry's bullets.

You don't have to buy them from me you know. You can buy them straight from the manufacturer. Or at cabelas! I didn't take the time to do all this just to sell bullets. I did it to show that powerbond bullets are indeed superior to berrys. And they are! Regardless of loading techniques.

[Tex S]

I think most folks around here would be more interested in seeing some targets that you shot with each type of bullet.

You know, that whole accuracy thing... thats what make a bullet "superior" to me. Smashing them with a hammer seems kinda silly if the damn things don't shoot straight.

[bedlamite]

I think most folks around here would be more interested in seeing some targets that you shot with each type of bullet.

I'd rather it be done by someone who is impartial after seeing what he's done so far.

[Longdayjake]

I'd rather it be done by someone who is impartial after seeing what he's done so far.

I would be willing to sell you 50 of each at cost so that you could do the testing yourself. Obviously you think I skewed the test to favor the powerbond. Maybe you will be a little less skeptical if you try them yourself. Just remember to load the powerbond with jacketed data and the berry's with their recommended lead cast data.

You may think I am biased because I sell the powerbond, but think about it like this. I sell bullets for a living. I can buy the berry's bullets cheaper than I can the powerbond. I choose to sell the powerbond anyway. Why would I choose to do that? The answer is because powerbond bullets can do things that berry's cannot. The big kicker for me was that I could load them and shoot them just like a jacketed bullet. In fact, the faster you shoot them the better they shoot. They have a thicker plating. It also appears that the lead is a little harder too. I just want to sell and shoot a better bullet.

Please wait till you have tried both of them before you insinuate that I am dishonest in my testing. Its not fair to me unless you have evidence to show otherwise.

[snuffy]

Now do the same test but substitute Extreme,(formerly westcoast), bullets for the berry's. The copper plating is thicker than berrys by several thousandths.

[Uncle Buck]

I think anytime a salesman does his/her own test, people will assume their is some bias involved.
An independent tester would confirm what you have shown us here. But we have all been burnt by snake oil salesmen in the past and it makes us Leary of everybody, even the guy who is telling the truth.

p.s. - I sent you an e-mail through the company site. Looking forward to your reply.

Buck

[SL1]

Snuffy,

The web used to be full of gripes about West Coast Bullets. I understand that they became EXtreme Bullets, but there is nothing new in changing a business's name (but not its practices) when that name has gotten bad publicity and lost market share.

So, I am wondering if EXtreme Bullets now ships orders promptly, answers inquireies, etc. I was initally attracted to their bullets by their advertizing about thicker plating, but was turned-off by the internet warnings.

So, what is the current scope on the Extreme Bullets company?

SL1

[snuffy]

SL1, the story I heard was west coast was bought out by the guy that makes the muzzle loading conical bullets, powerbelt. He brought out some copper plated versions, wanted to own a copper plating business. There was a fight about who was in charge, Red bought it back and re-named it.

I had nothing but great success with west coast plated bullets. Accuracy was always good, and all sizes are double struck,(are the powerbond bullets double struck?).
Orders were handled quickly, I never had to wait. The UPS driver hated to deliver them, but I told him to quit whining, he was getting paid well!

Most copper plated bullets are made with swaged cores. You can't swage hardER lead, the dies and press won't last. So, are the powerbond cores cast? That would allow the use of harder lead.

[Jim Watson]

Hmm,
I see Powerbond has a 200 gr roundnose .45.
Good enough for John Browning and Colt's Pt FA Mfg Co in 1905, good enough for me.

Wish they made roundnose .38s, though. My only use would be for speedloading in IDPA and the flatpoints are a little more tedious to load.

[Christchild]

IMHO, the OP may be biased, but being a Shooter, he prefers the better bullet, and being in the Business, he wants to offer better product.

If I were to be a "retailer' such as he is, I'd hold the same interest, as I prefer Higher Quality.

When I was buying components for .45 ACP (before I sold my Glock 21), I stayed away from the plated bullets, namely Rainier Ballistics, because I wasn't sure about the integrity of the plating, whether it would hold up through loading and firing or not, without exposing lead.

His tests look like something I would have done...And I say Good Job, LongDayJake. Had I not sold my 21, I'd likely give them a try...

[Longdayjake]

SL1, the story I heard was west coast was bought out by the guy that makes the muzzle loading conical bullets, powerbelt.

Actually the powerbond bullets are made in the same factory and by the same people as the powerbelt bullet. The owner of powerbelt put his son in charge of powerbond. I have met the owner of powerbelt, and I talk frequently with the his son. I can ask them any questions if you guys have any.

[Longdayjake]

Accuracy was always good, and all sizes are double struck,(are the powerbond bullets double struck?).

Yes they are double struck. They are actually put inside the die again to ensure complete uniformity. They aren't just pushed through a tube.

[Krieger9]

There was real effort to make a case with real information and detail. Wish politicians gave me that much respect.

Of course take anything lightly, but this is a good claim. Verifying is easier than discovering.

Thanks

[Farmland]

You can ship me 10 and I will give you an honesty opinion. I'm not a fan of plated bullets but would be willing to compare them with the others I have for what it is worth.

[Longdayjake]

More pictures coming soon.

[Grump]

I've bought a few more Berry's bullets over the counter than I should have...I say this because the local pricing ain't that favorable. For a small percentage more I could have gotten regular FMJs from LongDayJake, but most of that was years before he started business.

In .40 S&W, the accuracy sucked, the worst I ever got from the G22. That meant 5-6 inches at 25 yards instead of 3-4, so you may correctly conclude that it wasn't a huge difference. Lousy gun, cartridge with only fair inherent accuracy AFIC.

In .38 and .357 using two different S&Ws, yikes, they are GREAT. Have fired up to 1200 fps using the 125-gr bullets. Accuracy is 3 inches MAX with any old load ever tried, usually 2 inches, and often enough 1 to 1.5 inches off the sandbags.

I'm going to look at the pricing and just might give the PowerBonds a try next time I load a bunch. I have enough bullets on hand, however, to fill up my last few empties laying around, so it's going to be a while.

ETA: in 115-gr 9mm, the Berry's shot 3 inches from the SIG and 5-7 inches from the Kel-Tec, the most inaccurate gun I've had the misery of owning or even borrowing. An Iver Johnson .38 S&W shooting .358 bullets does better than that thing beyond 10 yards.

[Inspector3711]

So, what is the current scope on the Extreme Bullets company?

I've been using them in .40 (155 grain). Very accurate practice bullets. The few I've had to pull while reloading held up better than other "generic" bullets I've tried (Rainier, Berry's).

[Longdayjake]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...61#post6011761

For those of you wanting an accuracy comparison, here is a link from one of my customers shooting the .357 powerbond and the berry's. Groups are good from both. I wish that he would have shot more than just 6 rounds since the SD is interesting.

[Longdayjake]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=477292

Here are some more from his testing.