Safety vs. access

CMichael · October 17, 2002, 11:29 AM

I have had my Mossberg Persuader, with the chamber empty, the trigger lock, and with the key hidden near me. The idea behind this is that if a bad guy broke in I wouldn't be facing the wrong side of my own gun.

I have been pondering this. In the middle night fussing with a key does take percious time...

I don't have kids yet.

What do you guys think? I could just cover the gun with a towel. It's kind of messy in there. The chances of a BG seeing it probably isn't great, but it exists.

Michael

yzguy · October 17, 2002, 11:44 AM

Without kids I don't think I would worry about the trigger lock, just a decent hiding place near you (under bed, behind head board...) out of direct sight. I doubt a night time intruder will be looking for weapons close to you while you sleep. If they are there to take stuff they will likely stay out of your room, if they are there to hurt you they will likely have there own weapon, and won't waist time looking for yours.

of course this is all just my $.02

ReadyOnTheRight · October 17, 2002, 01:24 PM

How about above the door inside a the front wall of a bedroom closet? Even if you do have kids as visitors, they won't be able to reach it and you could maybe even lock your bedroom door.

Or...you could get a $10 Master combination lock -- faster than finding a key.

.02 cents worth.

Shawn Dodson · October 17, 2002, 02:46 PM

Something to consider: http://www.vlineind.com/html/shotgun_case.html

Or just unlock the gun before you go to bed. Then you don't have to fuss with a key.

yzguy · October 17, 2002, 03:16 PM

I think I see one of those V-lines in my near future.... (kids around sometimes)

ronin308 · October 17, 2002, 05:43 PM

I just keep my Benelli fully loaded and out of sight. Its easily accessible though.

jthuang · October 17, 2002, 07:25 PM

IMHO the better solution is to buy a handgun and a fast-access safe. I can't think of a way to have fast and secure access to my shotgun so I will go for fast and secure for the handgun so I can "fight my way to my shotgun", a la Clint Smith.

My combo:

1. Sig P226 (ARS Adv tac package) in R&D Enterprises Handgun Box
2. Benelli M1S90T w/ Surefire Responder 617F, triggerlocked.

The R&D Enterprises Handgun Box works very well -- no batteries to die, thick steel, pre-drilled for mounting and made in the USA.

Justin

Bruce626 · October 17, 2002, 08:26 PM

For those of us who aren't allowed to possess a handgun, the shotgun is still the best option.

With no kids around, my SG lives under my side of the bed, hammer down on empty chamber so no action release is needed, magazine fully loaded, safety OFF, no locks... all I have to do is simple stuff: rack slide, ID the target, pull trigger. At 3am, all I can handle is the simple stuff... no way I could deal with a lock.

Dave McC · October 18, 2002, 04:56 AM

Good to see you, Justin, howya been?

When the little McCrackens were really little, the HD 870 was kept inside a closet door, overhead. It was also kept "Cruiser Ready", a condition that can be made to fire fast IF the operator knows what to do, and cannot be done quickly by a child or untrained adult.

For those unfamiliar with the term, "Cruiser Ready" as used here means empty chamber, action locked shut, full mag, safety on. If all this seems unduly slow and complicated, try this with a shotgun KNOWN TO BE EMPTY and have someone time you.If it takes more than a second or two, either you need to practice or join a support group for the hopelessly inept.

Mrs McC's pet First Model Trooper with my old duty load (110 gr +P+) was kept in a Cannon Gun safe to keep busy little fingers away and safe.

Now the little McCs have guns of their own, so the arrangement differs.

One gent of limited means and several kids( Gee, could the two be cause and effect?) had but a single bbl H&R for a house gun. It was kept empty with a couple rounds taped to the stock, and a Hold tite around the receiver so the action could not be completely shut. It could be made ready quickly.

As for what other folks do, it's up to them....

Coronach · October 18, 2002, 08:51 AM

This is a big pet peeve of mine. With as many burglaries as we have, and as many burglars who are interrupted by the unexpected return of the home's rightful owner, a scenario where a prepared homeowner ends up looking down the barrel of his own gun sure can happen. Don't think for an instant that a good hiding place will be good enough. Have you ever seen a house that was gone over by a less-than-casual burglar? I have- it looks like a tornado swept through it. Your gun will be found.

I secure my HD sg with one of these, secured to a framing stud in the wall, behind a curtain. Will it stop a determined burglar from taking my gun? No...he can probably get it off the wall, but it will take a bit of time and concentrated effort to do so...and even if he does, he has a hi-tech club until he gets the lock off of the gun...which he also can do, if he disassembles and reassembles the gun while still in the house...after he has spent the time to get my $150 shotgun off the wall...and thats all time he's probably not willing to spend. Perfect? No. But better than just hiding it and hoping its not found. Its also pretty darned kidproof.

Just remember to unlock it before you go to bed, or as soon as you get home (if you have no kids).

Mike

Tamara · October 18, 2002, 08:54 AM

My 870 is more or less just lying around in "cruiser ready".

If the cats figure out how to work it, I'm screwed...

("Honest, Mr. Landlord, if I told you why there were buckshot holes all around that mousehole, you wouldn't believe me..."

)

ronin308 · October 18, 2002, 09:20 AM

Coronach- When I leave I lock it up with the rest of my guns.

Bruce and CMike- The problem with racking the slide is that: your gun should have been loaded so you've lost time. But the main problem is that you have just given away your position. BGs don't give a hoot about Rule #4 so they could feasibly just shoot through the walls at you.

CMichael · October 18, 2002, 10:56 AM

Tamara didn't you just tell me you don't have shotguns?

Tamara · October 18, 2002, 11:16 AM

I was temporarily shotgunless, up until a month or two ago...

Sisco · October 18, 2002, 11:46 AM

I was thinking about one of these
http://www.mossberg.com/locbox.htm

yzguy · October 18, 2002, 01:26 PM

I saw that, but it takes a key... I was hoping for a simplex type locking system myself...

Bruce626 · October 18, 2002, 10:49 PM

ronin308... yeah, I've gone back and forth on that and can't find a completely satisfactory answer. You're right, my present config needs a rack to be ready to shoot... which in my HD situation may not be a big giveaway because the BG is probably looking right at me anyway. Up until a few months ago I kept a round in the chamber, ready to shoot as soon as I slid the safety off, but this seemed a bit unsafe when the wife was wildly vacuuming under the bed (my storage site). I guess I've decided that a bold slide rack is somehow preferable to a stealthy "safety off" move, but I could get wishy-washy about this again.

cbjessee@NH · October 20, 2002, 06:55 AM

The Life-Jacket, Mossberg and Hoppes shotgun locks don't fit a shotgun with a side-saddle. Hence, I continue to the wait for the BreechLock (http://www.knoxx.com/product/BreechLok.htm) to ship and save for a RifleLocker. The V-Line shotgun safe looks good for a single long gun, but the V-Line Closet Vault is almost as expensive as the RifleLocker. Neither look like they will resist a burgler using tools from my garage to bust them open, but either look like they will keep determined kids out and provide ready access.

BRET

yzguy · October 21, 2002, 10:07 AM

damn!! put a simplex lock on that, and I would buy it!!! I just don't like keys....

jthuang · October 21, 2002, 10:40 PM

DaveMc, good to see you too. With a new job and spending Sundays watching NFL, I haven't had much time for TFL.

Bruce, sorry to hear about your handgun situation ... that's Chicago for ya.

Another option I've used while the pistol was at the gunsmith: when I go to bed, the shotgun is near my headboard. I put the right key into the triggerlock and go to bed. In the morning when I wake up, the key comes out immediately (before I head into the shower). Not the best solution, but you don't have to fumble for the right key in the dark and you don't need a handgun.

Justin

Bruce626 · October 22, 2002, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Bruce, sorry to hear about your handgun situation ... that's Chicago for ya.

Yeah, here only Daley's bodyguards, friends, and relatives.. and the bad guys... have handguns... this election time offers no help or hope either. Wish I was free to just pick up and move to some of the good places I read about here on TFL.

Justin... are you by any chance the same Justin T. Huang of insightful posting fame over on Free Republic? I assume you'll answer that Huang is sorta like Smith and to ignore the similarity?

--Bruce.

Coronach · October 23, 2002, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Yeah, here only Daley's bodyguards, friends, and relatives.. and the bad guys... have handguns...

You could just say "the bad guys" and be done with it...

Mike

jthuang · October 23, 2002, 05:40 PM

Bruce: sorry, that's not me. Can you point me to a post by that individual? I'd be interested to read his views.

Justin

CMichael · October 24, 2002, 08:40 AM

Thank you for all your responses

Michael

Mannlicher · October 25, 2002, 08:20 PM

Cmichael, asks:"I have had my Mossberg Persuader, with the chamber empty, the trigger lock, and with the key hidden near me. The idea behind this is that if a bad guy broke in I wouldn't be facing the wrong side of my own gun."

Why not just get rid of the shotgun, and all guns in the house. At least get rid of all the ammo. That way you would be totally safe. Right?

October 17, 2002, 11:29 AM	#1
CMichael Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: MI Posts: 1,516	Safety vs. access I have had my Mossberg Persuader, with the chamber empty, the trigger lock, and with the key hidden near me. The idea behind this is that if a bad guy broke in I wouldn't be facing the wrong side of my own gun. I have been pondering this. In the middle night fussing with a key does take percious time... I don't have kids yet. What do you guys think? I could just cover the gun with a towel. It's kind of messy in there. The chances of a BG seeing it probably isn't great, but it exists. Michael

October 17, 2002, 01:24 PM	#3
ReadyOnTheRight Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 377	How about above the door inside a the front wall of a bedroom closet? Even if you do have kids as visitors, they won't be able to reach it and you could maybe even lock your bedroom door. Or...you could get a $10 Master combination lock -- faster than finding a key. .02 cents worth. __________________ "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys." -Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle-

October 17, 2002, 05:43 PM	#6
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	I just keep my Benelli fully loaded and out of sight. Its easily accessible though. __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

October 17, 2002, 07:25 PM	#7
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	IMHO the better solution is to buy a handgun and a fast-access safe. I can't think of a way to have fast and secure access to my shotgun so I will go for fast and secure for the handgun so I can "fight my way to my shotgun", a la Clint Smith. My combo: 1. Sig P226 (ARS Adv tac package) in R&D Enterprises Handgun Box 2. Benelli M1S90T w/ Surefire Responder 617F, triggerlocked. The R&D Enterprises Handgun Box works very well -- no batteries to die, thick steel, pre-drilled for mounting and made in the USA. Justin __________________ Justin T. Huang late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

October 18, 2002, 08:51 AM	#10
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	This is a big pet peeve of mine. With as many burglaries as we have, and as many burglars who are interrupted by the unexpected return of the home's rightful owner, a scenario where a prepared homeowner ends up looking down the barrel of his own gun sure can happen. Don't think for an instant that a good hiding place will be good enough. Have you ever seen a house that was gone over by a less-than-casual burglar? I have- it looks like a tornado swept through it. Your gun will be found. I secure my HD sg with one of these, secured to a framing stud in the wall, behind a curtain. Will it stop a determined burglar from taking my gun? No...he can probably get it off the wall, but it will take a bit of time and concentrated effort to do so...and even if he does, he has a hi-tech club until he gets the lock off of the gun...which he also can do, if he disassembles and reassembles the gun while still in the house...after he has spent the time to get my $150 shotgun off the wall...and thats all time he's probably not willing to spend. Perfect? No. But better than just hiding it and hoping its not found. Its also pretty darned kidproof. Just remember to unlock it before you go to bed, or as soon as you get home (if you have no kids). Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 17, 2002, 11:44 AM	#2
yzguy Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: FL Posts: 297	Without kids I don't think I would worry about the trigger lock, just a decent hiding place near you (under bed, behind head board...) out of direct sight. I doubt a night time intruder will be looking for weapons close to you while you sleep. If they are there to take stuff they will likely stay out of your room, if they are there to hurt you they will likely have there own weapon, and won't waist time looking for yours. of course this is all just my $.02

October 17, 2002, 02:46 PM	#4
Shawn Dodson Junior member Join Date: December 16, 1998 Location: Titusville, FL, USA Posts: 1,030	Something to consider: http://www.vlineind.com/html/shotgun_case.html Or just unlock the gun before you go to bed. Then you don't have to fuss with a key.

October 17, 2002, 03:16 PM	#5
yzguy Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: FL Posts: 297	I think I see one of those V-lines in my near future.... (kids around sometimes)

October 17, 2002, 08:26 PM	#8
Bruce626 Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: Handgun-Free Chicago thanks to Gun-grabber Daley Posts: 167	For those of us who aren't allowed to possess a handgun, the shotgun is still the best option. With no kids around, my SG lives under my side of the bed, hammer down on empty chamber so no action release is needed, magazine fully loaded, safety OFF, no locks... all I have to do is simple stuff: rack slide, ID the target, pull trigger. At 3am, all I can handle is the simple stuff... no way I could deal with a lock.

October 18, 2002, 04:56 AM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Good to see you, Justin, howya been? When the little McCrackens were really little, the HD 870 was kept inside a closet door, overhead. It was also kept "Cruiser Ready", a condition that can be made to fire fast IF the operator knows what to do, and cannot be done quickly by a child or untrained adult. For those unfamiliar with the term, "Cruiser Ready" as used here means empty chamber, action locked shut, full mag, safety on. If all this seems unduly slow and complicated, try this with a shotgun KNOWN TO BE EMPTY and have someone time you.If it takes more than a second or two, either you need to practice or join a support group for the hopelessly inept. Mrs McC's pet First Model Trooper with my old duty load (110 gr +P+) was kept in a Cannon Gun safe to keep busy little fingers away and safe. Now the little McCs have guns of their own, so the arrangement differs. One gent of limited means and several kids( Gee, could the two be cause and effect?) had but a single bbl H&R for a house gun. It was kept empty with a couple rounds taped to the stock, and a Hold tite around the receiver so the action could not be completely shut. It could be made ready quickly. As for what other folks do, it's up to them....

October 18, 2002, 08:54 AM	#11
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	My 870 is more or less just lying around in "cruiser ready". If the cats figure out how to work it, I'm screwed... ("Honest, Mr. Landlord, if I told you why there were buckshot holes all around that mousehole, you wouldn't believe me..." ) __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

October 18, 2002, 09:20 AM	#12
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	Coronach- When I leave I lock it up with the rest of my guns. Bruce and CMike- The problem with racking the slide is that: your gun should have been loaded so you've lost time. But the main problem is that you have just given away your position. BGs don't give a hoot about Rule #4 so they could feasibly just shoot through the walls at you. __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

October 18, 2002, 10:56 AM	#13
CMichael Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: MI Posts: 1,516	Tamara didn't you just tell me you don't have shotguns?

October 18, 2002, 11:16 AM	#14
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	I was temporarily shotgunless, up until a month or two ago... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

October 18, 2002, 11:46 AM	#15
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	I was thinking about one of these http://www.mossberg.com/locbox.htm __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

October 18, 2002, 01:26 PM	#16
yzguy Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: FL Posts: 297	I saw that, but it takes a key... I was hoping for a simplex type locking system myself...

October 18, 2002, 10:49 PM	#17
Bruce626 Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: Handgun-Free Chicago thanks to Gun-grabber Daley Posts: 167	ronin308... yeah, I've gone back and forth on that and can't find a completely satisfactory answer. You're right, my present config needs a rack to be ready to shoot... which in my HD situation may not be a big giveaway because the BG is probably looking right at me anyway. Up until a few months ago I kept a round in the chamber, ready to shoot as soon as I slid the safety off, but this seemed a bit unsafe when the wife was wildly vacuuming under the bed (my storage site). I guess I've decided that a bold slide rack is somehow preferable to a stealthy "safety off" move, but I could get wishy-washy about this again.

October 20, 2002, 06:55 AM	#18
cbjessee@NH Junior member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: Bedford, NH Posts: 72	The Life-Jacket, Mossberg and Hoppes shotgun locks don't fit a shotgun with a side-saddle. Hence, I continue to the wait for the BreechLock (http://www.knoxx.com/product/BreechLok.htm) to ship and save for a RifleLocker. The V-Line shotgun safe looks good for a single long gun, but the V-Line Closet Vault is almost as expensive as the RifleLocker. Neither look like they will resist a burgler using tools from my garage to bust them open, but either look like they will keep determined kids out and provide ready access. BRET

October 21, 2002, 10:07 AM	#19
yzguy Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: FL Posts: 297	damn!! put a simplex lock on that, and I would buy it!!! I just don't like keys....

October 21, 2002, 10:40 PM	#20
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	DaveMc, good to see you too. With a new job and spending Sundays watching NFL, I haven't had much time for TFL. Bruce, sorry to hear about your handgun situation ... that's Chicago for ya. Another option I've used while the pistol was at the gunsmith: when I go to bed, the shotgun is near my headboard. I put the right key into the triggerlock and go to bed. In the morning when I wake up, the key comes out immediately (before I head into the shower). Not the best solution, but you don't have to fumble for the right key in the dark and you don't need a handgun. Justin __________________ Justin T. Huang late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

October 23, 2002, 05:40 PM	#23
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	Bruce: sorry, that's not me. Can you point me to a post by that individual? I'd be interested to read his views. Justin __________________ Justin T. Huang late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania Last edited by jthuang; October 23, 2002 at 06:06 PM.

October 24, 2002, 08:40 AM	#24
CMichael Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: MI Posts: 1,516	Thank you for all your responses Michael

October 25, 2002, 08:20 PM	#25
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	Cmichael, asks:"I have had my Mossberg Persuader, with the chamber empty, the trigger lock, and with the key hidden near me. The idea behind this is that if a bad guy broke in I wouldn't be facing the wrong side of my own gun." Why not just get rid of the shotgun, and all guns in the house. At least get rid of all the ammo. That way you would be totally safe. Right? __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan