At what point - if any - do you leave the gun in the safe? - Page 2

gearhounds · February 21, 2011, 12:19 AM

"Announcing to the intruders that you are armed not only tells the approximately where you are it gives away your ability to suprise them which may make the difference between you and your family surviving the encounter or not."

Sorry, but if you announce that the law is on the way, and that you are armed and will shoot any intruder you see, they will leave, and quickly. You lose nothing, unless the sole purpose of entering the house was to hunt you down and kill you.

If you have kids on different levels, I'm sure you have a better plan than just stalking and shooting. Hopefully they will go to ground, rather than becoming a potential accidental target.

output · February 21, 2011, 01:26 PM

I’ll grab the gun 10 out of 10 times. Having in my hands beats not having in my hands all 10 times. The first thing I do is wake my spouse and the second thing I do is grab my firearm as she is calling the police.

Since there is only her and I in our home, there is no need to make an attempt at clearing my home. She stays on the phone while we bunker down as far away from the door as possible with cover, and I guard the door. Nothing in our home is irreplaceable. If they wish to do us harm…I am not going to give them the upper-hand.

I hope that helped.

Ben Towe · February 21, 2011, 02:04 PM

Never.

markj · February 21, 2011, 04:20 PM

Why just last night I heard stealthy footsteps in the hallway. Glad Ididnt kill the dude, it was my son.

Old houses settle at night after the sun goes down, they will make loud sounds that may scare a person. My hot water heater has calcified the rod again (well water) so when it heats up it knocks real loud. The water softener also comes on at times and makes noise that isnt a normal sound for many folks.

Use common sense here, get a barker dog, use motion sensors, lock the door and use good locks. Keep windows locked and a tiny bell on a fishline hung from the window will alert you to its opening.

HD is having a plan, securing the property and preventing entry. Do this and sleep lika a baby at night without worry.

My favorite Marine (NAM 68-70 and White house detail signed letter from the president and all that) has tiny little cameras all over his 5 acres along with the above mentioned stuff.

I also gots a favorite AF guy, 25 years, was a Secret Serviceman for H bush gots pics, signed letters etc. I often ask him about HD stuff and get good solid advise. I posted it here for all. Dont cost mush cash either.

Be safe

Rufus T Firefly · February 22, 2011, 12:59 AM

Understand the laws in your State.
The state laws will validate your use or lack of use.
Of course I would keep it in the safe if you take Ambient or sleep drugs. At least then when you wake up driving your car in the middle of the night, you won't have a weapon.

triumph666 · February 22, 2011, 01:52 AM

The only guns i leave in my safe are the ones i'm storing for the moment...I keep 3 guns available. 1 hi cap semi, 1 snub revolver, an 1 compact 12ga...in an emergency i will hand my GF the shotgun and her cellphone and tell her to be prepared to call police.

I would then stick revolver in my shorts pocket and present my full size pistol at my door to my room and listen to try an figure out the situation...If there are unfriendlys in my house then i will have her call police and i will notify intruders they may be shot if they do not leave and police are on the way.

its basically what happened to me when i caught some people in my house before....but even tho i prob shouldnt have i had a high powered flashlight and i made sure anyone could hear me operate my handgun even tho it was already chambered

When i got downstairs the back door was open an i could hear them taking off...never had another break in but the buggers may have been the same ones who robbed all my vehicles multiple times...

thump_rrr · February 22, 2011, 03:40 AM

A well designed alarm system along with a good dog is the first step in home defense if there are children, especially teenagers in the house.
By well designed I mean all windows and doors protected by contacts and even glass break sensors if necessary.
This will allow a reasonable amount of perimiter security and at the same time lessen the chance of a teenager trying to sneak in or out undetected.
We have all heard the stories of someone shooting or almost shooting one of their loved ones because they heard something.

If the dog barks or the alarm rings then the plan comes into action and everyone in the home should go where they were told to go and do what they were told to do ahead of time.

I have a keypad in my room so even if someone authorized is entering though the entry door I hear the time delay beeper chime.
If they don't key in the proper code in 10 seconds then the alarm goes off and there is no need to call 911 because the alarm company will be calling me.

With the price of video surveilance being what it is these days it doesn't cost a whole lot to have a few wireless IP cams around the perimiter of your home either.
This is the area I'll be addressing next in my ever changing home security system.

FireForged · February 22, 2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Sorry, but if you announce that the law is on the way, and that you are armed and will shoot any intruder you see, they will leave, and quickly. You lose nothing, unless the sole purpose of entering the house was to hunt you down and kill you.

Sorry, but this proclamation is based on the idea that most intruder/burglars make decision based on common sense and a balance of threat-vs-gain-vs consequence. I agree that it is entirely possible that if you shout at a criminal, they will leave but to claim that this will happen or is likely to happen is just wishful thinking. It is more fair to say that this action may help, and may not.

Many crimes and certainly many violent crimes have nothing to do with common sense or gain vs consequence. If that were the case, people would not risk life in prison for the contents of a 7/11 cash drawer. A lack of impulse control, hateful indifference to others, immediate need-coupled with addiction is more likely to be what drives many violent criminals.

Nnobby45 · February 22, 2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Say Petit family and drive them to the bank to get your money.

Your choice.

Right. Consider that a fluke and just drive Bubba to the ATM while the others are with your loved ones, and believe them when they say you and your family won't be harmed when you get back.

Just because the women were raped (in front of the others) and then burned alive, doesn' mean that will happen to you and yours if you decice on the passive approach.

Yes, it sometimes happens that the home invaders will eliminate all witnesses, but you'll just have to risk it, since your
family will be safer if you let Bubba and his friends decide their fate.

And remember that there aren't many creeps out there like those two who planned everything in advance and got excited at about the rapes and murders they knew they were going to commit.

If you take charge there could be gunfire and somebody could get hurt. Don't risk it. Might be better if you weren't armed, like the Petit family , since you could be tempted to actually fight back.

OK, seriously:

Don't quite understand why you're asking others what to do in a situation likely be unique to you, but what you do or don't do will be your call ---same as for the rest of us. Unless you have a quick opening key pad safe, you might as well not be armed.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-william-...ry?id=11633236

youngunz4life · February 22, 2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

You leave the gun in the safe when you don't

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Understand the laws in your State.

sorry rufus, this comment is just over the top to me. there isn't one state where the gun would have to be in the safe in the first place. Please let me know if I am wrong about this point since I have been wrong before. People have all different kinds of safes and/or safe scenarios as well, so there isn't anything wrong with safes. It is a safety from children as well. I will say that my/our safe scenario is a neglible time difference, so the safe willnot put a damper on our plans. Besides that, we also have an alarm anyways which is the best pregame you have or at least as good as a dog.

BGutzman · February 22, 2011, 10:24 PM

Never Mind...

Nnobby45 · February 22, 2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

If surrender works for you, hey I guess thats ok but its not part of my plan.

I think you're teasing, you can't be serious... I must have read this wrong...

Oh well

At the bottom of my post I said "OK, seriously........".

That's a good tip off that the previous part wasn't serious.

In fact it was meant to be rediculous to illustrate the obsurdity of surrendering to sociopathic, violent home invaders---like the two who raped, and burned their victims alive to cover their tracks---or maybe because they just enjoyed it.

sirsloop · February 22, 2011, 11:37 PM

I have enough bullets loaded up within arms reach to handle more than two people. Ain't no way I'd willingly let someone get the drop on me if I had any way of stopping it, especially in my own house.

Old Wanderer · February 23, 2011, 01:45 AM

Because I travel I had this addition to my home alarm added. It is a simple push-button that hangs on a chain near the bed. (Did this for my wife).

Pushing it activates a "Hot Prowl" alert, and the police are dispatched.

No other alarm is sounded, and no phone calls are made.

Yes I would always get my 12 ga as my #1 choice, or my handgun and my #2 choice, and turn the yappy Chiwawa loose. He hates everybody.

Don P · February 23, 2011, 08:42 AM

Safe at the bed not needed in our house. No kids.

Glenn Bartley · February 23, 2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

For example, if from the noise you suspect that there are more than one or two criminals involved? At what point (if any) do you make the decision that pulling the gun might escalate things in a way that works against you?

Are you, in essence, asking at what point do you surrender to the armed intruders or just say - hey here we are, we are at your mercy? It almost seems that way to me. There may be times not to defend yourself but remember if you choose to do that, you have put yourself at the mercy of the bad guys and all to often they are anything other than merciful.

All the best,
Glenn B

Theophilus · February 23, 2011, 09:09 AM

OK, I'm the original poster. Some of you guys have just been killing me over what was, I admit, a dumb question. That's ok - in fact, reading all the discussion has been educational. For someone like me - no history of gun ownership, and just got my first HD weapon - the realization that pulling that thing out now means that a) I might be using it and b) an intruder is going to respond to me, for better or worse, as a guy who is about to shoot him - that thought is actually pretty intense for someone not used to it. But reading this thread has helped crystallize for me the reality that the intruder escalated things when he forced his way into my home. I'm not escalating anything by having a gun.
I have a safe by my bed b/c I have kids ages 6-14. Maybe I will get a bedside holster for overnight use. There's alot of responsibility that goes along with all this, but heck I knew that when I signed up to be a dad.

Shootin Chef · February 23, 2011, 11:41 AM

My father had guns all over the house, my brother and I never touched them because we knew that to do so would invoke a wrath worse than what's apparently contained within the Ark of Covenant.

Show your kids your weapon, take away the mystery, and teach them never to touch it without permission, and you probably won't need the safe until your collection grows to large to fit in the nightstand

WW2 · February 23, 2011, 02:14 PM

You can get a quick opening handgun safe and mount it near your bed. This way you can keep the gun in the safe and have very quick access when needed.

For example, see http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safe...biometric.html

BGutzman · February 23, 2011, 08:20 PM

I have a safe right next to my bed, its called my holster and as soon as my feet touch the floor its on or near my body.

FAS1 · February 24, 2011, 08:29 AM

My HD handgun is mounted on my bed frame so at home I can't imagine that I would not have the opportunity to get to my gun before they were too close to get it safely. They have to defeat multiple layers of security first.

Skans · February 24, 2011, 08:43 AM

If there is no question that there are multiple attackers in my house. They've probably cut the phone lines. My cell phone is not by my bed. I keep a semi-auto 30-06 with a fully loaded 20 round magazine in my closet. I'm going to come out blasting, and have my Glock as a backup.

boogy886 · February 24, 2011, 11:28 AM

"My father had guns all over the house, my brother and I never touched them because we knew that to do so would invoke a wrath worse than what's apparently contained within the Ark of Covenant.
Show your kids your weapon, take away the mystery, and teach them never to touch it without permission, and you probably won't need the safe until your collection grows to large to fit in the nightstand "

This is how I was raised, how my nieces and nephews are raised, and how my kids will be raised. Guns are in a cabinet, with a closing door, but that cabinet is off limits unless supervised by an adult.

Point is, safe's are a waste of time, especially in this scenario...IMO

Hiker 1 · February 24, 2011, 11:42 AM

assuming you have a handgun in a safe by the bed

Personally, I don't keep my handgun in the safe at night. Too hard to access.

gearhounds · February 24, 2011, 12:07 PM

"Sorry, but this proclamation is based on the idea that most intruder/burglars make decision based on common sense and a balance of threat-vs-gain-vs consequence. I agree that it is entirely possible that if you shout at a criminal, they will leave but to claim that this will happen or is likely to happen is just wishful thinking. It is more fair to say that this action may help, and may not."

I agree that MOST criminals make decisions not based on common sense. I do believe, however, that unless they are legitemately insane, or on something, that faced with an armed, equally determined defender that just happens to have the huge tactical advantage of obvious knowledge of the lay of the land (not to mention the time gap for success/escape is shrinking),
fight or flight instinct will likely (there's that word again) push them toward escape. There are no guarantees, in this scenario, or in life, and if the small percentage wants to enter my funnel, I'll gladly do society a favor.

Think about it: go looking for an armed intruder that may hear your approach and pick an ambush spot? Poor choice. Wait quietly to ambush them and hope when you decide to light them up that they are what they appear to be, and not a loved one/someone you know? Slightly less bad, but filled with potential disaster. If I had to shoot an intruder, I would rather face a jury in our over litigious society armed with the fact that I tried to avoid taking a life before doing so. Even an obvious ****'s.

February 21, 2011, 01:26 PM	#27
output Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2008 Posts: 294	I’ll grab the gun 10 out of 10 times. Having in my hands beats not having in my hands all 10 times. The first thing I do is wake my spouse and the second thing I do is grab my firearm as she is calling the police. Since there is only her and I in our home, there is no need to make an attempt at clearing my home. She stays on the phone while we bunker down as far away from the door as possible with cover, and I guard the door. Nothing in our home is irreplaceable. If they wish to do us harm…I am not going to give them the upper-hand. I hope that helped. __________________ "All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." -Winston Churchill

February 21, 2011, 02:04 PM	#28
Ben Towe Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 1,128	Never. __________________ 'Merica: Back to back World War Champs

February 22, 2011, 12:59 AM	#30
Rufus T Firefly Junior member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: MN Posts: 174	You leave the gun in the safe when you don't Understand the laws in your State. The state laws will validate your use or lack of use. Of course I would keep it in the safe if you take Ambient or sleep drugs. At least then when you wake up driving your car in the middle of the night, you won't have a weapon.

February 22, 2011, 10:24 PM	#36
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	Never Mind... __________________ Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; February 22, 2011 at 11:39 PM.

February 23, 2011, 08:42 AM	#40
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Safe at the bed not needed in our house. No kids. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

February 21, 2011, 12:19 AM	#26
gearhounds Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Location: M'burg WV Posts: 332	"Announcing to the intruders that you are armed not only tells the approximately where you are it gives away your ability to suprise them which may make the difference between you and your family surviving the encounter or not." Sorry, but if you announce that the law is on the way, and that you are armed and will shoot any intruder you see, they will leave, and quickly. You lose nothing, unless the sole purpose of entering the house was to hunt you down and kill you. If you have kids on different levels, I'm sure you have a better plan than just stalking and shooting. Hopefully they will go to ground, rather than becoming a potential accidental target.

February 21, 2011, 04:20 PM	#29
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	Why just last night I heard stealthy footsteps in the hallway. Glad Ididnt kill the dude, it was my son. Old houses settle at night after the sun goes down, they will make loud sounds that may scare a person. My hot water heater has calcified the rod again (well water) so when it heats up it knocks real loud. The water softener also comes on at times and makes noise that isnt a normal sound for many folks. Use common sense here, get a barker dog, use motion sensors, lock the door and use good locks. Keep windows locked and a tiny bell on a fishline hung from the window will alert you to its opening. HD is having a plan, securing the property and preventing entry. Do this and sleep lika a baby at night without worry. My favorite Marine (NAM 68-70 and White house detail signed letter from the president and all that) has tiny little cameras all over his 5 acres along with the above mentioned stuff. I also gots a favorite AF guy, 25 years, was a Secret Serviceman for H bush gots pics, signed letters etc. I often ask him about HD stuff and get good solid advise. I posted it here for all. Dont cost mush cash either. Be safe

February 22, 2011, 01:52 AM	#31
triumph666 Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2011 Posts: 374	The only guns i leave in my safe are the ones i'm storing for the moment...I keep 3 guns available. 1 hi cap semi, 1 snub revolver, an 1 compact 12ga...in an emergency i will hand my GF the shotgun and her cellphone and tell her to be prepared to call police. I would then stick revolver in my shorts pocket and present my full size pistol at my door to my room and listen to try an figure out the situation...If there are unfriendlys in my house then i will have her call police and i will notify intruders they may be shot if they do not leave and police are on the way. its basically what happened to me when i caught some people in my house before....but even tho i prob shouldnt have i had a high powered flashlight and i made sure anyone could hear me operate my handgun even tho it was already chambered When i got downstairs the back door was open an i could hear them taking off...never had another break in but the buggers may have been the same ones who robbed all my vehicles multiple times...

February 22, 2011, 03:40 AM	#32
thump_rrr Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2010 Posts: 403	A well designed alarm system along with a good dog is the first step in home defense if there are children, especially teenagers in the house. By well designed I mean all windows and doors protected by contacts and even glass break sensors if necessary. This will allow a reasonable amount of perimiter security and at the same time lessen the chance of a teenager trying to sneak in or out undetected. We have all heard the stories of someone shooting or almost shooting one of their loved ones because they heard something. If the dog barks or the alarm rings then the plan comes into action and everyone in the home should go where they were told to go and do what they were told to do ahead of time. I have a keypad in my room so even if someone authorized is entering though the entry door I hear the time delay beeper chime. If they don't key in the proper code in 10 seconds then the alarm goes off and there is no need to call 911 because the alarm company will be calling me. With the price of video surveilance being what it is these days it doesn't cost a whole lot to have a few wireless IP cams around the perimiter of your home either. This is the area I'll be addressing next in my ever changing home security system.

February 22, 2011, 11:37 PM	#38
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	I have enough bullets loaded up within arms reach to handle more than two people. Ain't no way I'd willingly let someone get the drop on me if I had any way of stopping it, especially in my own house.

February 23, 2011, 01:45 AM	#39
Old Wanderer Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: Bonney Lake, WA Posts: 77	Because I travel I had this addition to my home alarm added. It is a simple push-button that hangs on a chain near the bed. (Did this for my wife). Pushing it activates a "Hot Prowl" alert, and the police are dispatched. No other alarm is sounded, and no phone calls are made. Yes I would always get my 12 ga as my #1 choice, or my handgun and my #2 choice, and turn the yappy Chiwawa loose. He hates everybody.

February 23, 2011, 09:09 AM	#42
Theophilus Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: Ozarks Posts: 92	OK, I'm the original poster. Some of you guys have just been killing me over what was, I admit, a dumb question. That's ok - in fact, reading all the discussion has been educational. For someone like me - no history of gun ownership, and just got my first HD weapon - the realization that pulling that thing out now means that a) I might be using it and b) an intruder is going to respond to me, for better or worse, as a guy who is about to shoot him - that thought is actually pretty intense for someone not used to it. But reading this thread has helped crystallize for me the reality that the intruder escalated things when he forced his way into my home. I'm not escalating anything by having a gun. I have a safe by my bed b/c I have kids ages 6-14. Maybe I will get a bedside holster for overnight use. There's alot of responsibility that goes along with all this, but heck I knew that when I signed up to be a dad.

February 23, 2011, 11:41 AM	#43
Shootin Chef Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 121	My father had guns all over the house, my brother and I never touched them because we knew that to do so would invoke a wrath worse than what's apparently contained within the Ark of Covenant. Show your kids your weapon, take away the mystery, and teach them never to touch it without permission, and you probably won't need the safe until your collection grows to large to fit in the nightstand

February 23, 2011, 08:20 PM	#45
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I have a safe right next to my bed, its called my holster and as soon as my feet touch the floor its on or near my body. __________________ Molon Labe

February 24, 2011, 08:29 AM	#46
FAS1 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 541	My HD handgun is mounted on my bed frame so at home I can't imagine that I would not have the opportunity to get to my gun before they were too close to get it safely. They have to defeat multiple layers of security first. __________________ *Glenn* *FAS1 SAFE*

February 24, 2011, 08:43 AM	#47
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	If there is no question that there are multiple attackers in my house. They've probably cut the phone lines. My cell phone is not by my bed. I keep a semi-auto 30-06 with a fully loaded 20 round magazine in my closet. I'm going to come out blasting, and have my Glock as a backup.

February 24, 2011, 11:28 AM	#48
boogy886 Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 4	"My father had guns all over the house, my brother and I never touched them because we knew that to do so would invoke a wrath worse than what's apparently contained within the Ark of Covenant. Show your kids your weapon, take away the mystery, and teach them never to touch it without permission, and you probably won't need the safe until your collection grows to large to fit in the nightstand " This is how I was raised, how my nieces and nephews are raised, and how my kids will be raised. Guns are in a cabinet, with a closing door, but that cabinet is off limits unless supervised by an adult. Point is, safe's are a waste of time, especially in this scenario...IMO Last edited by boogy886; February 24, 2011 at 01:12 PM.

February 24, 2011, 11:42 AM	#49
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	assuming you have a handgun in a safe by the bed Personally, I don't keep my handgun in the safe at night. Too hard to access.

February 24, 2011, 12:07 PM	#50
gearhounds Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Location: M'burg WV Posts: 332	"Sorry, but this proclamation is based on the idea that most intruder/burglars make decision based on common sense and a balance of threat-vs-gain-vs consequence. I agree that it is entirely possible that if you shout at a criminal, they will leave but to claim that this will happen or is likely to happen is just wishful thinking. It is more fair to say that this action may help, and may not." I agree that MOST criminals make decisions not based on common sense. I do believe, however, that unless they are legitemately insane, or on something, that faced with an armed, equally determined defender that just happens to have the huge tactical advantage of obvious knowledge of the lay of the land (not to mention the time gap for success/escape is shrinking), fight or flight instinct will likely (there's that word again) push them toward escape. There are no guarantees, in this scenario, or in life, and if the small percentage wants to enter my funnel, I'll gladly do society a favor. Think about it: go looking for an armed intruder that may hear your approach and pick an ambush spot? Poor choice. Wait quietly to ambush them and hope when you decide to light them up that they are what they appear to be, and not a loved one/someone you know? Slightly less bad, but filled with potential disaster. If I had to shoot an intruder, I would rather face a jury in our over litigious society armed with the fact that I tried to avoid taking a life before doing so. Even an obvious ****'s.