Stock options time

dakota.potts · September 9, 2015, 04:49 PM

As I stated below, I'm looking to machine a cantilever scope mount for my VZ 58. For those that don't know, this replaces the stock in the rear of the receiver and attaches with the same stock screw that the original stock had.

That means I will have to machine the mount to replace the stock, and in the process will have to machine an adaptor for the stock. I got to school for machine technology and my teacher has told me he'll be able to help me with machine operations if I can get the parts drawn up.

So that means that, in addition to the standard stock, I can put just about any stock on there that I can reasonably create an adaptor for.

I'm looking for something that either retracts fully or folds to keep the overall length as short as possible when folded. Also something not too expensive and not terribly complicated to machine.

My thoughts right now:
Original folding stock

MP5/MP7 style retractable stock

Folding buffer tube adapter for AR stock (more difficult because I'd have to locate the proper taps)

The original folding stock has poor cheek weld and not a lot of padding, although it's comfortable to shoot with the muzzle brake I have on it. The MP5 stock is really neat, but I worry about eye relief and cheek weld with the 1-4X scope I want to put on it. The AR folding stock seems to allow the most flexibility, but is also one of the bulkiest options and one of the more difficult to machine.

If there are any options I'm looking over, I'm all ears. I'd even try airsoft/paintball/replica parts if they're made out of a decent metal.

marine6680 · September 9, 2015, 05:49 PM

A solid latching mechanism is the biggest hurdle.

My thinking... A mount that attaches at the rear and uses the big screw to hold it in, will also need to index off the receiver somehow to align straight and prevent rotation.

Throwing a folding mechanism into that mix may not be prudent.

The simplest way would be to thread the rear of the mount to accept AR buffer tubes, without a folding method. You don't get as compact of a rifle, but the only time I find the folding stock useful is for transport. When I am using the rifle, I want the stock deployed.

You may be able to source or make a longer screw, so that you can sandwich the mount between the stock and receiver.

dakota.potts · September 9, 2015, 05:55 PM

I see what you're saying to a point, but the original stock already folds and mounts to the rear of the receiver.

I can machine the whole thing to be a one piece attachment into the rear of the receiver to use the original length screw while maintaining rigidity. At that point, the scope mount and the stock adaptor are actually the same part and there should be no more flex in it than is in the original folding stock. Theoretically anyways. If the buffer tube has a larger diameter than the head of the rear receiver screw, I can actually counterbore the original screw hole to the appropriate depth and thread in the AR buffer tube into that same hole for simplicity. If the buffer tube is smaller, I may be able to play around with a non-concentric counterbore design and see what that does.

I really do like the ability to fold it up for transport. I have a bag coming soon that holds a 26" rifle fully assembled and would like the ability to transport it in that without having to disassemble anything. So that's going to the most interesting challenge. If I didn't want a folding/fully telescoping stock, I could go with any number of options.

marine6680 · September 9, 2015, 06:57 PM

The AR stocks would shorten up, but not as much as a side folder.

I was just thinking it would be too busy at the back to have the cantilever mount and folding mechanism.

I was also thinking a longer screw would allow using the original stock. Not very comfortable for scope use though.

Are you getting a 36in case? If so, the AR type stock and tube setup should fit fine.

And the screw is smaller than an AR buffer tube... I double checked on mine.

dakota.potts · September 9, 2015, 07:02 PM

No, I was really looking to keep the stock compacted in some way. The bag I got is 26" and is just fine for the rifle as is and should have a couple of inches of flex room.

I may have to look at a fixed stock, but I want to look at other options first.

As far as using the original stock with the cantilever mount, that is a possibility. However, if you look at the rifle the back of the receiver has a slant to it (about 86.6 degrees I believe) and I already have to mill that into one side of the mount. If I were to mount the original stock, I would need to do that on both faces and would end up with a parallelogram shape... which I guess could be an option. As stated, I would also need the longer screw. Might be able to turn one on a lathe though.

marine6680 · September 9, 2015, 07:12 PM

I just checked to make sure, but the screw is smaller than an AR buffer tube.

dakota.potts · September 9, 2015, 07:16 PM

With that being the case, I could make a one piece mount and counterbore the screw hole on one side and tap it to put the receiver extension in there.

Unfortunately, the 1 3/16-16 tap is very expensive... and I'm sure it's not a common drill size either.

EDIT: On the other hand, I may be able to permanently affix a castle nut in another manner as others have done for other firearms. I will have to look into that some more.

dakota.potts · September 9, 2015, 10:19 PM

After doing a lot more research, I may end up going with a VZ 58 stock, but not the original. It looks like the FAB defense model has a square receiver block as opposed to slant, so it should be easier to work with. The Metric 12X1 thread will also be much easier to work with in terms of cost and parts availability.

I still have a little bit of mental configuring to do to figure out if I'm going to be able to fit everything where I need to, but that's looking like my better option. It folds and also has an adjustable cheek rest, which solves the problem of cheek weld

http://www.themakogroup.com/stocks-s...k-uas-vzp.html

September 9, 2015, 04:49 PM	#1
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Stock options time As I stated below, I'm looking to machine a cantilever scope mount for my VZ 58. For those that don't know, this replaces the stock in the rear of the receiver and attaches with the same stock screw that the original stock had. That means I will have to machine the mount to replace the stock, and in the process will have to machine an adaptor for the stock. I got to school for machine technology and my teacher has told me he'll be able to help me with machine operations if I can get the parts drawn up. So that means that, in addition to the standard stock, I can put just about any stock on there that I can reasonably create an adaptor for. I'm looking for something that either retracts fully or folds to keep the overall length as short as possible when folded. Also something not too expensive and not terribly complicated to machine. My thoughts right now: Original folding stock MP5/MP7 style retractable stock Folding buffer tube adapter for AR stock (more difficult because I'd have to locate the proper taps) The original folding stock has poor cheek weld and not a lot of padding, although it's comfortable to shoot with the muzzle brake I have on it. The MP5 stock is really neat, but I worry about eye relief and cheek weld with the 1-4X scope I want to put on it. The AR folding stock seems to allow the most flexibility, but is also one of the bulkiest options and one of the more difficult to machine. If there are any options I'm looking over, I'm all ears. I'd even try airsoft/paintball/replica parts if they're made out of a decent metal. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 9, 2015, 05:55 PM	#3
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I see what you're saying to a point, but the original stock already folds and mounts to the rear of the receiver. I can machine the whole thing to be a one piece attachment into the rear of the receiver to use the original length screw while maintaining rigidity. At that point, the scope mount and the stock adaptor are actually the same part and there should be no more flex in it than is in the original folding stock. Theoretically anyways. If the buffer tube has a larger diameter than the head of the rear receiver screw, I can actually counterbore the original screw hole to the appropriate depth and thread in the AR buffer tube into that same hole for simplicity. If the buffer tube is smaller, I may be able to play around with a non-concentric counterbore design and see what that does. I really do like the ability to fold it up for transport. I have a bag coming soon that holds a 26" rifle fully assembled and would like the ability to transport it in that without having to disassemble anything. So that's going to the most interesting challenge. If I didn't want a folding/fully telescoping stock, I could go with any number of options. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 9, 2015, 06:57 PM	#4
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	The AR stocks would shorten up, but not as much as a side folder. I was just thinking it would be too busy at the back to have the cantilever mount and folding mechanism. I was also thinking a longer screw would allow using the original stock. Not very comfortable for scope use though. Are you getting a 36in case? If so, the AR type stock and tube setup should fit fine. And the screw is smaller than an AR buffer tube... I double checked on mine. Last edited by marine6680; September 9, 2015 at 07:10 PM.

September 9, 2015, 07:02 PM	#5
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	No, I was really looking to keep the stock compacted in some way. The bag I got is 26" and is just fine for the rifle as is and should have a couple of inches of flex room. I may have to look at a fixed stock, but I want to look at other options first. As far as using the original stock with the cantilever mount, that is a possibility. However, if you look at the rifle the back of the receiver has a slant to it (about 86.6 degrees I believe) and I already have to mill that into one side of the mount. If I were to mount the original stock, I would need to do that on both faces and would end up with a parallelogram shape... which I guess could be an option. As stated, I would also need the longer screw. Might be able to turn one on a lathe though. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 9, 2015, 07:16 PM	#7
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	With that being the case, I could make a one piece mount and counterbore the screw hole on one side and tap it to put the receiver extension in there. Unfortunately, the 1 3/16-16 tap is very expensive... and I'm sure it's not a common drill size either. EDIT: On the other hand, I may be able to permanently affix a castle nut in another manner as others have done for other firearms. I will have to look into that some more. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 9, 2015, 05:49 PM	#2
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	A solid latching mechanism is the biggest hurdle. My thinking... A mount that attaches at the rear and uses the big screw to hold it in, will also need to index off the receiver somehow to align straight and prevent rotation. Throwing a folding mechanism into that mix may not be prudent. The simplest way would be to thread the rear of the mount to accept AR buffer tubes, without a folding method. You don't get as compact of a rifle, but the only time I find the folding stock useful is for transport. When I am using the rifle, I want the stock deployed. You may be able to source or make a longer screw, so that you can sandwich the mount between the stock and receiver.

September 9, 2015, 07:12 PM	#6
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	I just checked to make sure, but the screw is smaller than an AR buffer tube.

September 9, 2015, 10:19 PM	#8
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	After doing a lot more research, I may end up going with a VZ 58 stock, but not the original. It looks like the FAB defense model has a square receiver block as opposed to slant, so it should be easier to work with. The Metric 12X1 thread will also be much easier to work with in terms of cost and parts availability. I still have a little bit of mental configuring to do to figure out if I'm going to be able to fit everything where I need to, but that's looking like my better option. It folds and also has an adjustable cheek rest, which solves the problem of cheek weld http://www.themakogroup.com/stocks-s...k-uas-vzp.html __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.