38 special in a snubbie.

[Marred]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I've recently gotten back into shooting and reloading after 10 years. I'm reloading for a 38. special Taurus model 85 with a 2 inch barrel but the data I have is for a six inch barrel out of the Speer #12 manual. I'm using a 125 gr. jacketed bullet over 5.7 grains of Unique for 980 fps as per the manual. It also says do not reduce this load because jacketed bullets can stick in the bore because of increased resistance compared to lead. I know that short barrels lose velocity compared to longer ones, so can anyone tell me if the 4 inch difference is an accident waiting to happen? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[joneb]

I would start at 4.7-4.9 of Unique for a 125gr jacked bullet and work up. I have a Taurus M85 2" and mostly feed it W-231 or Bullseye.

[Marred]

Thanks for the reply JibJab, so do you think I'm being overly cautious? I want to try Bullseye, what kind of accuracy do you get with it?
Thanks

[jdscholer]

I'll jump in and say that Bullseye is great. You can't hardly do better. jd

[joneb]

When it comes to reloading, you must be cautious and back up every thing you hear with multiple amounts of reputable data.
With 125gr jacketed I would start at 4.0gr of Bullseye I load 4.2gr of BE with standard primers, and this load shoots well in my 2,4,or 6" .38spl's. For fixed sight revolvers regulated for 158g bullets the 125gr will print 2-3" low at 10-15yrds.
I load on a single stage press, all of my primed cases are primer up in the loading tray and charged cases are inspected with a flashlight prior to bullet seating.

[Marred]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. That's great advice.

[Slamfire]

If your Taurus M85 is like my M85 UBL, then it is sighted in for 158 grain bullets. Not that it makes much of a difference at seven yards, but at 25 yards it makes a big difference.

While I have chronograph data in my M85, since it is a 158 grain gun, I have not shot much 125's through the thing.

However in my S&W Airweights, which are sighted in for 125's, I have put more rounds over the screens.

I prefer bullseye to any of the other powders I tried. Changing from WSP to CCI did not make much if any difference in velocity. I tried Green Dot, because I had some cheap estate sale Green Dot. You can compare velocities in Green Dot going between lead bullets and 125 JHP's. I believe the differences would be similiar no matter what powder you used.

I have 125 Lead data through a 4" Barrel. You can see how much velocity you loose when you go to a 2" barrel.

S&W M637-2  2" barrel

		
125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 
 9-Apr-06   T = 59 F
Ave Vel =760.4	 			
Std Dev =27.33				 
ES	82.1				 
High	798.9			 	 
Low	716.8			 	 
N =	19				 
More or less Point of aim Surprising recoil

					
125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot BE 532 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
Ave Vel =763.9	 			
Std Dev =22			 	 
ES	78			 	 
High	806.5			 	 
Low	728.5			 	 
N =	15				 
Point aim OK

					
125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP   
9-Apr-06   T = 64 F
Ave Vel =827.9				
Std Dev =23.21				 
ES	92.27			 	 
High	879.4			 	 
Low	787.1			 	 
N =	20			 
Maybe a little low	Windage centered				 
					
					
125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
					
Ave Vel =813.2	 		 	
Std Dev =44.55			 	 
ES	176.5			 	 
High	903.3			 	 
Low	726.8			 	 
N =	24				 
poor accuracy @ 25 yds, v. accurate at 7 yards, POI, little leading					
	
125 Lead BBRNFP 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F					
					
Ave Vel =867.3	 		 	
Std Dev =57.54			 	 
ES	178.1			 	 
High	966			 	 
Low	787.8			 	 
N =	21				 
Poor 25 yard accuracy, v.accurate at 7 yds, 1-2" above POI, more leading
					
125 JHP (W/W) 4.5 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		
					
Ave Vel =760.4	 		 	
Std Dev =68			 	 
ES	56			 	 
High	205.1			 	 
Low	885.4			 	 
N =	13				 
very accurate at 7 yards, POI, little leading					
	
125 JHP (W/W) 5.0 grs Green Dot Lot 178 Mixed cases CCI 500 	
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F		
					
Ave Vel =808.9	 		 	
Std Dev =56.82			 	 
ES	95.46	 		 	 
High	914.2	 		 	 
Low	712.8			 	 
N =	20				 
25 yds accuracy OK, accurate POI @ 7 yds


4" S&W M10-5 

125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 		
9-Apr-06	T = 59 °F				
Ave Vel =863.4	 		 
Std Dev =30				 
ES =	70.78				 
High  =	907.5			 	 
Low  =	836.7			 	 
N =	6				 
					
Elevation at least 4" low	Windage centered	accurate			
					
		
125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 		
9-Apr-06	T = 64 °F				
Ave Vel =945.6	 		 
Std Dev =27.28				 
ES =	75.21				 
High  =	995.2			 	 
Low  =	920			 	 
N =	6				 
					
Elevation at least 4" low	Windage centered	accurate

[Marred]

Slamfire1 the difference is about 100fps for the two inches of barrel length. I can only assume that 4 inches of barrel length would be approx. 200fps. A big difference. I wish the reloading manuals would publish data for snubbies and if anyone knows of one please let me know. JibJab made an excellent point of "backing up every thing you hear with multiple amounts of reputable data." What got me thinking is that the Speer #12 manual says not to reduce it's 125gr. bullet 980fps recipe because the bullet might stick, and it only gives the 5.7grs. of Unique load. Going with what JibJab said, I checked my friends 7th edition Hornady manual and it says nothing about bullets sticking in the barrel and gives a starting charge of Unique 5.1gr. & 5.3gr. for 800fps & 850fps respectively. Here's the kicker, 5.6gr. & 5.8gr. for 900fps & 950fps is their +P load. What gives here? I looked at the 38 +P load in the Speer #12 and its starting load is 5.7 grs. of Unique for 980 fps. to a max. of 6.0 grs. for 1082fps. Well I'm convinced that I'm overthinking this and I'm going to get a new manual or two and look for snubbie loads. Thanks for the info.

[joneb]

What gives here?

Welcome to the wild world of reloading
Marred,
There are a multitude of factors that cause these ambiguities, different bullets of the same weight is a big one, 125gr JHP's from different manufacturers can produce various pressures with the same charge, and there are many reasons for this.
And then think of those doing the testing assuming they are using the same test equipment that is calibrated the same, and they are using the same powder lot, and same primer and cases(trimmed to the same length) and so on......they would still come up with different results
Be careful, and assume nothing.

[jdscholer]

Heck, look at the difference in velocity that is caused by a couple of thousanths difference in cylinder gap. jd

[WESHOOT2]

What bullet?

What goal for this bullet?

[aerod1]

I will also chime in for Bullseye. I have been using 3.0 grains of Bullseye under my 125 grain LRN bullets in mixed cases with Winchester small pistol primers for plinking purpose and it is working great for me in my 38 special.
I have been shooting these loads from a 4" revolver.

[Marred]

I'll mostly be using this load for target practice at about 10 to 15 yards. I'll not only use it out of my 2 inch Taurus 85 but also my S&W model 60-15 with a 3 inch barrel. I'd like a light load but accuracy is most important. I'm definately going out and getting some Bullseye.

[WESHOOT2]

Go out and get some W231......