bedding release problem

MeekAndMild · January 15, 2002, 07:44 PM

Well, my fiberglass replacement stock has arrived. The only trouble is that it is inletted a tiny bit loose. In the original wooden stock there had been epoxy bedding in the area around the recoil lug but obviously the new stock doesn't have this yet.

I now need to bed the recoil lug, so the stock will be tight but what material is used to coat the steel so the epoxy isn't just glued to the stock?

Paste wax? Saddle soap? Grease? Teflon spray? Commercial rubber mold release spray? Spit?

Keith J · January 15, 2002, 08:06 PM

It works BUT if you have any milling marks on the lug or the lug isn't parallel or has negative draft, it will bind.

Check for the latter with a micrometer.

If you have milling marks, its better to use something like dry moly as it fills these impressions yet allows for a good bedding. Silicone release agent will give the highest quality job but only on receiver bottoms.

Dave P · January 15, 2002, 08:40 PM

This novice would use the teflon spray. I have some liquid PFTE mold release that works well - isn't PFTE same as teflon, just not a trade mark?

Dfariswheel · January 15, 2002, 08:48 PM

I've had such good luck with Johnson's Paste Floor Wax, that that's all I've used for years. Next time out I'm going to try car wax.
I apply a thick coat of wax with a brush, and allow it to dry. DON'T wipe it off. Then bed it.

James K · January 15, 2002, 10:03 PM

Don't bedding kits still come with a release agent?

Jim

yorec · January 15, 2002, 10:16 PM

Most kits do include a release agent, if you buy the kits. I like to buy my bedding compound in bulk - a gallon at a time. They don't include release agents then.

Dfariswheel, try Turtle brand car wax - I've had good luck with it. Any of the carwaxes that contain real carnuba wax seem to work too, but watch the labels - some new stuff I've found doesn't have wax in it. I'd hate to mess up a gun like that! (Floorwax, eh? Hadn't thought of that one...)

Ledbetter · January 16, 2002, 02:17 PM

It's what I use too. I use PVC mold release agent, but the guys at rimfirecentral.com swear by PAM cooking spray.

Regards.

MeekAndMild · January 16, 2002, 04:25 PM

Thanks guys. This is for an epoxy paste rather than fiberglass. I just did a test surface with dabs of the epoxy and checked it a minute ago.

Paste wax worked great (Turtle Wax). Saddle soap did ok, about 2 to 5 % bonding. Teflon spray, vaseline and mold release agent didn't prevent bonding. We don't have any floor wax. We do have Pam, so I'll test it and see.

What is dry moly and where is it found? This lug is smooth and well surfaced but there are other projects. Specifically I have a Title II collectors item with a terribly loose detachable stock I've been thinking about fixing too.

Also, what is the best way to prepare the surface for waxing?

M&M

**Mike Irwin** · January 16, 2002, 10:50 PM

Try Kiwi Neutral Shoe Polish. I've had success with that.

And remember, if you do manage to bind your action into the stock, an industrial deep freeze or dry ice can be your best friend.

Lefty · January 16, 2002, 11:05 PM

Bedding: IMHO "Pro-Bed 2000" from www.scorehi.com is the best there is. Less than $20 in different colors and uses micro-balloons at the cellular level; won't compress, strengthens, yet lightens the epoxy weight too. I've used Marine-tex too and it too is great stuff. I'd say I easily got more than twice as much Pro-Bed for the price compared to M-tex -- choice is yours.

Release agent: Pro-Bed comes with wax and is a full kit. Most swear by Johnson's paste wax, I swear by the Pam spray. I use candle wax, clay, or celophane tape to cover/fill in holes or voids in the actions in places to be bedded.

DeBee · January 17, 2002, 01:00 AM

I use Johnsons Paste Wax- it's cheap and one tin last forever. It can be thinned with turpentine...

I use wax to close voids and create dams now. Clay is ok but it will mush out of shape easily and has a lower heat tolerance before it gives...

The wax I have is for making sculptures to be cast in bronze for the "lost wax process". It works after being warmed in your hand but is harder at room temp and then can be carved and polished with a toothbrush or a pair of old nylon stockings... It takes a little longer but you can do intricate bedding by restricting the epoxy and it leaves a nice finish too.

I degrease with acetone before and after.

MeekAndMild · January 17, 2002, 11:30 PM

Quote:

I use wax to close voids and create dams now.

This is a brown, kind of sticky wax which is soft enough to mold by hand? I've seen it before. It would be easier to use probably than clay and less likely to cause rust.

Quote:

And remember, if you do manage to bind your action into the stock, an industrial deep freeze or dry ice can be your best friend.

How? Does the freezer make the epoxy let go?

George Stringer · January 18, 2002, 08:54 AM

The cold causes the metal and to some extent the epoxy to contract away from each other. George

DeBee · January 18, 2002, 12:52 PM

M&M-

That's the stuff. Give it a try if you can get some! Naturally, paint it with what ever release agent you choose...

**Mike Irwin** · January 18, 2002, 01:50 PM

The cold in the deep freeze or from the dry ice makes the bedding and action shrink, which helps break loose any places where you're glued together.

When I've done this, I've packed the rifle in dry ice (a friend stuck one REALLY good by forgetting the release agent) and left it go for at least 4 hours; 8 or even 10 is better.

When you take the rifle out, you HAVE to wear thermal gloves so you don't get frost bite. Sometimes you can work the action out by hand, but often a soft mallet is required to get the action out.

MeekAndMild · January 19, 2002, 09:46 AM

Thanks, Guys! Great results in the end!

I tested my Turtle Wax and some borrowed Johnson's Paste Wax for cars and the results were the same so I went with the Johnson's wax on basis of more folks here having experiance with it and the fact my can of Turtle Wax has dried out a bit with very old age.

Degreasing was done with denatured alcohol (as I had to work indoors and acetone fumes get too strong). Three light layers of the paste wax were used then the slow setting epoxy was put into the oversized hole for the recoil lug. The stock was screwed in and left overnight.

All it took to release the stock was a single blow to the top of the comb with my trusty red wooden mallet. The end result looks better than the epoxy in the original broken stock.

M&M

**Mike Irwin** · January 20, 2002, 11:13 PM

Ah, the sweet epoxy smell of success!

Good on you, Meek.

January 15, 2002, 07:44 PM	#1
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	bedding release problem Well, my fiberglass replacement stock has arrived. The only trouble is that it is inletted a tiny bit loose. In the original wooden stock there had been epoxy bedding in the area around the recoil lug but obviously the new stock doesn't have this yet. I now need to bed the recoil lug, so the stock will be tight but what material is used to coat the steel so the epoxy isn't just glued to the stock? Paste wax? Saddle soap? Grease? Teflon spray? Commercial rubber mold release spray? Spit? __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

January 15, 2002, 08:06 PM	#2
Keith J Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Posts: 469	Silicone It works BUT if you have any milling marks on the lug or the lug isn't parallel or has negative draft, it will bind. Check for the latter with a micrometer. If you have milling marks, its better to use something like dry moly as it fills these impressions yet allows for a good bedding. Silicone release agent will give the highest quality job but only on receiver bottoms.

January 15, 2002, 10:16 PM	#6
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Most kits do include a release agent, if you buy the kits. I like to buy my bedding compound in bulk - a gallon at a time. They don't include release agents then. Dfariswheel, try Turtle brand car wax - I've had good luck with it. Any of the carwaxes that contain real carnuba wax seem to work too, but watch the labels - some new stuff I've found doesn't have wax in it. I'd hate to mess up a gun like that! (Floorwax, eh? Hadn't thought of that one...) __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

January 16, 2002, 02:17 PM	#7
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Marine Tex It's what I use too. I use PVC mold release agent, but the guys at rimfirecentral.com swear by PAM cooking spray. Regards.

January 16, 2002, 04:25 PM	#8
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	Thanks guys. This is for an epoxy paste rather than fiberglass. I just did a test surface with dabs of the epoxy and checked it a minute ago. Paste wax worked great (Turtle Wax). Saddle soap did ok, about 2 to 5 % bonding. Teflon spray, vaseline and mold release agent didn't prevent bonding. We don't have any floor wax. We do have Pam, so I'll test it and see. What is dry moly and where is it found? This lug is smooth and well surfaced but there are other projects. Specifically I have a Title II collectors item with a terribly loose detachable stock I've been thinking about fixing too. Also, what is the best way to prepare the surface for waxing? M&M __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

January 15, 2002, 08:40 PM	#3
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	This novice would use the teflon spray. I have some liquid PFTE mold release that works well - isn't PFTE same as teflon, just not a trade mark?

January 15, 2002, 08:48 PM	#4
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	I've had such good luck with Johnson's Paste Floor Wax, that that's all I've used for years. Next time out I'm going to try car wax. I apply a thick coat of wax with a brush, and allow it to dry. DON'T wipe it off. Then bed it.

January 15, 2002, 10:03 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Don't bedding kits still come with a release agent? Jim

January 16, 2002, 10:50 PM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Try Kiwi Neutral Shoe Polish. I've had success with that. And remember, if you do manage to bind your action into the stock, an industrial deep freeze or dry ice can be your best friend. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 16, 2002, 11:05 PM	#10
Lefty Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2000 Location: Mass - the cradle of liberty!! Posts: 106	Bedding: IMHO "Pro-Bed 2000" from www.scorehi.com is the best there is. Less than $20 in different colors and uses micro-balloons at the cellular level; won't compress, strengthens, yet lightens the epoxy weight too. I've used Marine-tex too and it too is great stuff. I'd say I easily got more than twice as much Pro-Bed for the price compared to M-tex -- choice is yours. Release agent: Pro-Bed comes with wax and is a full kit. Most swear by Johnson's paste wax, I swear by the Pam spray. I use candle wax, clay, or celophane tape to cover/fill in holes or voids in the actions in places to be bedded.

January 17, 2002, 01:00 AM	#11
DeBee Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 1999 Posts: 408	I use Johnsons Paste Wax- it's cheap and one tin last forever. It can be thinned with turpentine... I use wax to close voids and create dams now. Clay is ok but it will mush out of shape easily and has a lower heat tolerance before it gives... The wax I have is for making sculptures to be cast in bronze for the "lost wax process". It works after being warmed in your hand but is harder at room temp and then can be carved and polished with a toothbrush or a pair of old nylon stockings... It takes a little longer but you can do intricate bedding by restricting the epoxy and it leaves a nice finish too. I degrease with acetone before and after.

January 18, 2002, 08:54 AM	#13
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	The cold causes the metal and to some extent the epoxy to contract away from each other. George

January 18, 2002, 12:52 PM	#14
DeBee Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 1999 Posts: 408	M&M- That's the stuff. Give it a try if you can get some! Naturally, paint it with what ever release agent you choose...

January 18, 2002, 01:50 PM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	The cold in the deep freeze or from the dry ice makes the bedding and action shrink, which helps break loose any places where you're glued together. When I've done this, I've packed the rifle in dry ice (a friend stuck one REALLY good by forgetting the release agent) and left it go for at least 4 hours; 8 or even 10 is better. When you take the rifle out, you HAVE to wear thermal gloves so you don't get frost bite. Sometimes you can work the action out by hand, but often a soft mallet is required to get the action out. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 19, 2002, 09:46 AM	#16
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	Thanks, Guys! Great results in the end! I tested my Turtle Wax and some borrowed Johnson's Paste Wax for cars and the results were the same so I went with the Johnson's wax on basis of more folks here having experiance with it and the fact my can of Turtle Wax has dried out a bit with very old age. Degreasing was done with denatured alcohol (as I had to work indoors and acetone fumes get too strong). Three light layers of the paste wax were used then the slow setting epoxy was put into the oversized hole for the recoil lug. The stock was screwed in and left overnight. All it took to release the stock was a single blow to the top of the comb with my trusty red wooden mallet. The end result looks better than the epoxy in the original broken stock. M&M __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

January 20, 2002, 11:13 PM	#17
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Ah, the sweet epoxy smell of success! Good on you, Meek. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.