Old Alcan Wad ID

rickh · January 23, 2007, 05:37 PM

Ok now I think I am past the charging bar issue I had, now I have a wad issue.
I have a BUNCH of Alcan 12 and 20 ga wads and need help IDing them.
Here is what I have...

Alcan Flite Max 12ga #1 modified lubricated

Alcan Flite Max 12ga #3 modified lubricated

Feltran Bluestreak 12ga .135" nitro card and in 3/8" non nitro

Feltran Bluestreak 20ga 1/4" and 3/8"

Remington Power Piston never mind those are well marked as to what they are for.

Alcan Unisleve (light blue in color) 12ga, this one has a charge table that I can make out but can not find the shell length on the package.

And finally, some strange looking ones I will try and discribe.... clear plastic circle in the center and 4 square wings on them. Assume once installed the wings fold up and make a shot cup. ga and size unknow, box is to bad to read.

Thanks for any help...

Or someone need any of the above?
Rick H...
Rick H...

spottedpony · January 27, 2007, 08:13 PM

i'm really digging into my memory banks now, some of this stuff hasnt been around in years, & cant tell you specificly what the flitemax #1 and #3 specs were, but as i recall they were shot cups of different load capacity. (though i may be wrong here) or possibily different wad length of the same shot capacity for high base vs low base hulls. (NOT high or low brass) some hull mfgrs used different base wad heights for varying purposes. in conjunction with high and low brass.

The feltan blue streak wads essentially are/were pre shotcup era and i think found only pre plastic ie: paper hulls. & were loaded with the prescribed powder charge, using the nitro card first, which is an overpowder wad, along with a combination of "felt" wads to build up a wad base so the listed shot charge filled the hull for proper crimping. without the proper height wad column one will overcharge the hull with shot thus creating an unsafe load. the thicker felt wads were available in various lengths to create the proper wad column for a given charge weight of shot, though many times lacking the proper length wad, shooters would cut one in half, say to make two 1/4 inch thick wads from one 1/2 inch wad.

the alcan unisleve was a multi purpose shot cup that as i recall, & one of the "better ideas" during the early years of plastic shot cup technology. you did essentially the same with the felt wads only placed them inside the shot cup (it seems like one used either a 20 or 16 guage felt wad inside a 12 guage cup) as fillers for the given weight shot charge.

Lastly, while i dont remember the names of the "plastic wings" you discribed but your exactly correct, after loading the proper charge and wad combination, these were inserted into the hull so the wings folded up inside making a shot cup to prevent bore leading.

a note on bore leading/pre plastic wad/shot cup use. Obviously the use of the fiber wads and nitro cards allowed the shot to come in contact with the shotgun barrel thus leading some, as well as scrubbing the shot against the bbl deforming pellets which resulted in not as tight patterns because the deformed shot flew eraticly. with modern shot cups and and a given choke, thats why we see tighter patterns now.

i will attemt to find more information in some of my old load books to verify this information, if i havnt given them away in past years.

also RE the load bars for the mec 600, If i still have my origional manual i will be glad to send you that information regarding the fixed charge bars though that will take some digging through old loading materials. as a note though while i use an adjustible bar in my 600 at times, i still use my fixed load bars for known loads that i shoot often.
My 0 bar throws 18.5 red dot under 1 1/8 & has been one of my standards in a straight walled hull, for over 30 years now. for a tapered hull such as AA's i load that down about 5% less due to higher pressures and velocity.

There may also be some interest by collectors in the components you've mentioned, just something to keep in mind

rickh · January 27, 2007, 08:50 PM

SpottedPony,
My Dad syas the smae thing about the old memory banks!!!
Thanks for the replys. As I mess around more and more at the bench I am figuring out what these old wads are for. In Dads collection was some brand new never fired Remington-Peters pre primed hulls (green). I found that the Alcan Flite Max #1 fits those perfect with 700x and 1 1/8oz lead. So I am gonna load them up for practice. These new hulls are the thick base low brass ones you spoke of. I do not think you could find them now a days.
I also found that when loading Top Guns the disk make a great spacer to be able to use the AA wads for 1 1/8oz load.
Also found some 20 ga never fired pre primed hulls. Now that I have loaded about 500 12 ga shells I am gonna set the old MEC 600 up to run the 20ga.
Thanks again for all the info and hope you can find the MEC manual on the charge bars info....
Rick H...

spottedpony · January 27, 2007, 09:46 PM

Rick

Glad to help, i hope your using the nitro card as a filler inside the AA wad? attempting to use it under any plastic one piece wad would prevent effecient sealing in the bore by the AA wad.
also be aware AA wads are made for a tapered hull such as the AA & may not give the same load performance in a Fed. top gun which is straight sided.

Something to watch too on those old paper hulls, inspect them after each firing, right at the top of the brass, after 2 or 3 firings they will start to pinhole. That is, you will see small pinhole burned places where powder combustion has weakened and burned small holes through the hull. that means its time to toss them, as you could get a hull seperation, resulting in effectively shooting a slug through your barrel sometimes, or at least your SG ejecting only the brass and leaving the tube in the chamber.

if you have a trap and skeet club nearby, get involved there, many of the old timers can and will offer sage advice, and places like that are a good source for once fired hulls of your choice.
as time goes on you probably will standardize on one or two different hulls and loadings depending on your purpose, making your component choices much easier.

i probably still have 10k of the old fed champion paper hulls and top guns, and those i religate to "shoot once and throw away" loads in my semi auto sg's, particularly for shooting doubles at trap or skeet, or hunting requirements needing only light loads.

i'll keep you posted on the status of finding the fixed charge bar information, if i cant find my way old, copy of the 600 manual, i have a couple of sources that may be able to run a copy down, so bear with me.

rickh · January 28, 2007, 12:35 AM

Thanks again!
The top guns I have are red plastic fluted sides. The winchester-peters are green plastic have a very thick base, no paper hulls at all.
Rick H...

January 27, 2007, 08:13 PM	#2
spottedpony Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 5	i'm really digging into my memory banks now, some of this stuff hasnt been around in years, & cant tell you specificly what the flitemax #1 and #3 specs were, but as i recall they were shot cups of different load capacity. (though i may be wrong here) or possibily different wad length of the same shot capacity for high base vs low base hulls. (NOT high or low brass) some hull mfgrs used different base wad heights for varying purposes. in conjunction with high and low brass. The feltan blue streak wads essentially are/were pre shotcup era and i think found only pre plastic ie: paper hulls. & were loaded with the prescribed powder charge, using the nitro card first, which is an overpowder wad, along with a combination of "felt" wads to build up a wad base so the listed shot charge filled the hull for proper crimping. without the proper height wad column one will overcharge the hull with shot thus creating an unsafe load. the thicker felt wads were available in various lengths to create the proper wad column for a given charge weight of shot, though many times lacking the proper length wad, shooters would cut one in half, say to make two 1/4 inch thick wads from one 1/2 inch wad. the alcan unisleve was a multi purpose shot cup that as i recall, & one of the "better ideas" during the early years of plastic shot cup technology. you did essentially the same with the felt wads only placed them inside the shot cup (it seems like one used either a 20 or 16 guage felt wad inside a 12 guage cup) as fillers for the given weight shot charge. Lastly, while i dont remember the names of the "plastic wings" you discribed but your exactly correct, after loading the proper charge and wad combination, these were inserted into the hull so the wings folded up inside making a shot cup to prevent bore leading. a note on bore leading/pre plastic wad/shot cup use. Obviously the use of the fiber wads and nitro cards allowed the shot to come in contact with the shotgun barrel thus leading some, as well as scrubbing the shot against the bbl deforming pellets which resulted in not as tight patterns because the deformed shot flew eraticly. with modern shot cups and and a given choke, thats why we see tighter patterns now. i will attemt to find more information in some of my old load books to verify this information, if i havnt given them away in past years. also RE the load bars for the mec 600, If i still have my origional manual i will be glad to send you that information regarding the fixed charge bars though that will take some digging through old loading materials. as a note though while i use an adjustible bar in my 600 at times, i still use my fixed load bars for known loads that i shoot often. My 0 bar throws 18.5 red dot under 1 1/8 & has been one of my standards in a straight walled hull, for over 30 years now. for a tapered hull such as AA's i load that down about 5% less due to higher pressures and velocity. There may also be some interest by collectors in the components you've mentioned, just something to keep in mind Last edited by spottedpony; January 27, 2007 at 08:16 PM. Reason: addition to post:

January 23, 2007, 05:37 PM	#1
rickh Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Posts: 47	Old Alcan Wad ID Ok now I think I am past the charging bar issue I had, now I have a wad issue. I have a BUNCH of Alcan 12 and 20 ga wads and need help IDing them. Here is what I have... Alcan Flite Max 12ga #1 modified lubricated Alcan Flite Max 12ga #3 modified lubricated Feltran Bluestreak 12ga .135" nitro card and in 3/8" non nitro Feltran Bluestreak 20ga 1/4" and 3/8" Remington Power Piston never mind those are well marked as to what they are for. Alcan Unisleve (light blue in color) 12ga, this one has a charge table that I can make out but can not find the shell length on the package. And finally, some strange looking ones I will try and discribe.... clear plastic circle in the center and 4 square wings on them. Assume once installed the wings fold up and make a shot cup. ga and size unknow, box is to bad to read. Thanks for any help... Or someone need any of the above? Rick H... Rick H...

January 27, 2007, 08:50 PM	#3
rickh Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Posts: 47	Thanks very informative SpottedPony, My Dad syas the smae thing about the old memory banks!!! Thanks for the replys. As I mess around more and more at the bench I am figuring out what these old wads are for. In Dads collection was some brand new never fired Remington-Peters pre primed hulls (green). I found that the Alcan Flite Max #1 fits those perfect with 700x and 1 1/8oz lead. So I am gonna load them up for practice. These new hulls are the thick base low brass ones you spoke of. I do not think you could find them now a days. I also found that when loading Top Guns the disk make a great spacer to be able to use the AA wads for 1 1/8oz load. Also found some 20 ga never fired pre primed hulls. Now that I have loaded about 500 12 ga shells I am gonna set the old MEC 600 up to run the 20ga. Thanks again for all the info and hope you can find the MEC manual on the charge bars info.... Rick H...

January 27, 2007, 09:46 PM	#4
spottedpony Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 5	Rick Glad to help, i hope your using the nitro card as a filler inside the AA wad? attempting to use it under any plastic one piece wad would prevent effecient sealing in the bore by the AA wad. also be aware AA wads are made for a tapered hull such as the AA & may not give the same load performance in a Fed. top gun which is straight sided. Something to watch too on those old paper hulls, inspect them after each firing, right at the top of the brass, after 2 or 3 firings they will start to pinhole. That is, you will see small pinhole burned places where powder combustion has weakened and burned small holes through the hull. that means its time to toss them, as you could get a hull seperation, resulting in effectively shooting a slug through your barrel sometimes, or at least your SG ejecting only the brass and leaving the tube in the chamber. if you have a trap and skeet club nearby, get involved there, many of the old timers can and will offer sage advice, and places like that are a good source for once fired hulls of your choice. as time goes on you probably will standardize on one or two different hulls and loadings depending on your purpose, making your component choices much easier. i probably still have 10k of the old fed champion paper hulls and top guns, and those i religate to "shoot once and throw away" loads in my semi auto sg's, particularly for shooting doubles at trap or skeet, or hunting requirements needing only light loads. i'll keep you posted on the status of finding the fixed charge bar information, if i cant find my way old, copy of the 600 manual, i have a couple of sources that may be able to run a copy down, so bear with me.

January 28, 2007, 12:35 AM	#5
rickh Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Posts: 47	Thanks again! The top guns I have are red plastic fluted sides. The winchester-peters are green plastic have a very thick base, no paper hulls at all. Rick H...