Lever action in .45acp?

Fatbot · August 11, 2005, 05:50 AM

Greetings

Has a lever action ever been released chambered for the .45acp round?

I've seen countless models chambered for other pistol calibres but never for my old favourite.

Many thanks
Fatbot

Jim Watson · August 11, 2005, 07:03 AM

It has been done on a custom one-off basis.
No manufacturer would offer a tube magazine .45ACP for fear of chain-firing a stack of hardball.

Vic303 · August 11, 2005, 08:29 AM

A pity that Ruger never offered one with their rotary mags, as that would negate the chainfire problem...I guess they thought .44 would be more popular.

Quantrill · August 11, 2005, 08:39 AM

A few years back, Winchester 94s were offered as Brazilian Surplus chambered in .45acp. I remember them in Shotgun News at the time. So there should be some out there somewhere. Quantrill

Fatbot · August 11, 2005, 09:10 AM

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.

PI Rob · August 11, 2005, 08:03 PM

I would love a Win '94 in .45acp!!!!! I just looked through a current Shotgun News and didn't see an ad. Anyone know where we can get one of those Brazilian surplus 94's? Would .45 acp hardball really start chain-firing? The .30-30 is pretty pointy and it doesn't seemed to be a concern. Am I missing something? Not trying to be a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color], but I really don't know.

Fatbot, Man I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump your thread, but I just got so excited about a .45acp lever gun I had to chime in. I've been thinking about something like this for the last several months.

Fatbot · August 11, 2005, 09:34 PM

Lol no problems Rob. I get pretty excited myself when thinking of a lever action in .45 *drool*.

PI Rob · August 11, 2005, 10:11 PM

Thanks. I can imagine if I ever get my hands on one those as trumpets sound and angels sing while brilliant rays of golden light shine down on me from the heavens above and......ahem...

Yes, I would like to have one. I think that would be great.

molonlabe · August 12, 2005, 06:49 AM

45 ACP does not perform well in longer barrels, in fact over 16 inches it actually loses velocity. I believe the max is about 12 or 14 inches probably what the original Thomson was made in. Just food for thought.

BryanP · August 12, 2005, 08:02 AM

It was my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) that tube magazines only work with rimmed cartridges. In pistol calibers that would be revolver calibers such as .38/.357, .45 Colt, .454 Casull etc..

Jim Watson · August 12, 2005, 09:42 AM

Correction, you are wrong.
Marlin has made tube magazine lever action rifles in .35 Remington for years.
There was a little known lineup of Stevens tube magazine lever action rifles that took the Remington rimless cartridges instead of the more common rimmed Winchesters. Maybe that is why they are little known.
Remington 14 and 141 pump rifles had tube magazines for the Remington rimless cartridges, including a spiral flute to keep bullet noses off of primers so you could use spitzer bullets.

Ed Harris wrote about converting a Marlin from .44 Magnum to .45 ACP and setting up for the rimless case was about the least of his problems. But he wouldn't even give chrono data for hardball due to concern about a hard RN in a straight case aligned directly with the next round's primer.

It doesn't even have to be pointed or rounded. There have been reports of Henry repros in .44-40 blowing up the magazine when the user let the magazine follower slam down against rounds in the tube.

Johnny Guest · August 14, 2005, 12:41 PM

I had such an arm, some years back. It was a Winchester model 1892, not a 94, marked something like P de DSJ (maybe San Juan District Police???) The original 44 WCF marking had been neatly overstamped to 45 and I could see how the lifter had a new cartridge stop brazed on, for the shorter cartridge. The finish was rather worn and the wood, though badly scratched up, was sound. But the action locked up like a bank vault and the bore was in nice shape. I picked it up at a Fort Worth Gun Show for what I considered quite a bargain. I stopped on the way home on a country road and fired about ten rounds of mixed .45 ACP ammo into a ditch. Functioning was very good.

It was a couple of weeks before I could take it to the range. I was very disappointed when I couldn't keep it on paper at 50 yards. At 25 yards, I could sometimes hit the target but noticed that half the bullet strikes showed keyholing. Recoil was fairly sharp with standard level handloads and ball ammo. I took casual notice that the primers were somewhat flattened on the brass. While changing targets, I picked up a couple of bullets from the berm and saw that something "looked funny" about them.

At home, it dawned on me that, compared to some other bullets fired through handguns, the rifling marks extended over a greater length than looked proper. The exposed lead at the base appeared to have melted.

When it finally occurred to me to measure the fired bullets, the light finally penetrated my dim brain. Diameters ran about .428" rather than the expected .452! When the rather neat conversion and rechambering had been done, someone neglected to replace or rebore the barrel to the proper dimensions.

The fact that the nifty little carbine suffered no ill effects was a tribute to the strangth of the '92 action. It did not reflect positively on my own perceptions, though.

With full disclosure, I sold the piece to a gunsmith friend, for a conversion with a new barrel.

I'd imagine that most of the police carbine conversions were fitted with properly bored barrels, but I'd sure suggest careful examination before firing one of them!

Best,
Johnny

August 11, 2005, 05:50 AM	#1
Fatbot Member Join Date: April 20, 2005 Posts: 24	Lever action in .45acp? Greetings Has a lever action ever been released chambered for the .45acp round? I've seen countless models chambered for other pistol calibres but never for my old favourite. Many thanks Fatbot

August 12, 2005, 06:49 AM	#9
molonlabe Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: MD Posts: 296	45 ACP does not perform well in longer barrels, in fact over 16 inches it actually loses velocity. I believe the max is about 12 or 14 inches probably what the original Thomson was made in. Just food for thought. __________________ The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved. I Don't want you in here period...Patricia Konie NOLA 2005

August 14, 2005, 12:41 PM	#12
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	An amusing story I'll tell on myself. I had such an arm, some years back. It was a Winchester model 1892, not a 94, marked something like P de DSJ (maybe San Juan District Police???) The original 44 WCF marking had been neatly overstamped to 45 and I could see how the lifter had a new cartridge stop brazed on, for the shorter cartridge. The finish was rather worn and the wood, though badly scratched up, was sound. But the action locked up like a bank vault and the bore was in nice shape. I picked it up at a Fort Worth Gun Show for what I considered quite a bargain. I stopped on the way home on a country road and fired about ten rounds of mixed .45 ACP ammo into a ditch. Functioning was very good. It was a couple of weeks before I could take it to the range. I was very disappointed when I couldn't keep it on paper at 50 yards. At 25 yards, I could sometimes hit the target but noticed that half the bullet strikes showed keyholing. Recoil was fairly sharp with standard level handloads and ball ammo. I took casual notice that the primers were somewhat flattened on the brass. While changing targets, I picked up a couple of bullets from the berm and saw that something "looked funny" about them. At home, it dawned on me that, compared to some other bullets fired through handguns, the rifling marks extended over a greater length than looked proper. The exposed lead at the base appeared to have melted. When it finally occurred to me to measure the fired bullets, the light finally penetrated my dim brain. Diameters ran about .428" rather than the expected .452! When the rather neat conversion and rechambering had been done, someone neglected to replace or rebore the barrel to the proper dimensions. The fact that the nifty little carbine suffered no ill effects was a tribute to the strangth of the '92 action. It did not reflect positively on my own perceptions, though. With full disclosure, I sold the piece to a gunsmith friend, for a conversion with a new barrel. I'd imagine that most of the police carbine conversions were fitted with properly bored barrels, but I'd sure suggest careful examination before firing one of them! Best, Johnny

August 11, 2005, 07:03 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	It has been done on a custom one-off basis. No manufacturer would offer a tube magazine .45ACP for fear of chain-firing a stack of hardball.

August 11, 2005, 08:29 AM	#3
Vic303 Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 90	A pity that Ruger never offered one with their rotary mags, as that would negate the chainfire problem...I guess they thought .44 would be more popular.

August 11, 2005, 08:39 AM	#4
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	A few years back, Winchester 94s were offered as Brazilian Surplus chambered in .45acp. I remember them in Shotgun News at the time. So there should be some out there somewhere. Quantrill

August 11, 2005, 09:10 AM	#5
Fatbot Member Join Date: April 20, 2005 Posts: 24	Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.

August 11, 2005, 08:03 PM	#6
PI Rob Member Join Date: August 16, 2004 Location: Dallas,Tx Posts: 52	I would love a Win '94 in .45acp!!!!! I just looked through a current Shotgun News and didn't see an ad. Anyone know where we can get one of those Brazilian surplus 94's? Would .45 acp hardball really start chain-firing? The .30-30 is pretty pointy and it doesn't seemed to be a concern. Am I missing something? Not trying to be a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color], but I really don't know. Fatbot, Man I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump your thread, but I just got so excited about a .45acp lever gun I had to chime in. I've been thinking about something like this for the last several months.

August 11, 2005, 09:34 PM	#7
Fatbot Member Join Date: April 20, 2005 Posts: 24	Lol no problems Rob. I get pretty excited myself when thinking of a lever action in .45 drool.

August 11, 2005, 10:11 PM	#8
PI Rob Member Join Date: August 16, 2004 Location: Dallas,Tx Posts: 52	Thanks. I can imagine if I ever get my hands on one those as trumpets sound and angels sing while brilliant rays of golden light shine down on me from the heavens above and......ahem... Yes, I would like to have one. I think that would be great.

August 12, 2005, 08:02 AM	#10
BryanP Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Smyrna, TN Posts: 243	It was my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) that tube magazines only work with rimmed cartridges. In pistol calibers that would be revolver calibers such as .38/.357, .45 Colt, .454 Casull etc..

August 12, 2005, 09:42 AM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	Correction, you are wrong. Marlin has made tube magazine lever action rifles in .35 Remington for years. There was a little known lineup of Stevens tube magazine lever action rifles that took the Remington rimless cartridges instead of the more common rimmed Winchesters. Maybe that is why they are little known. Remington 14 and 141 pump rifles had tube magazines for the Remington rimless cartridges, including a spiral flute to keep bullet noses off of primers so you could use spitzer bullets. Ed Harris wrote about converting a Marlin from .44 Magnum to .45 ACP and setting up for the rimless case was about the least of his problems. But he wouldn't even give chrono data for hardball due to concern about a hard RN in a straight case aligned directly with the next round's primer. It doesn't even have to be pointed or rounded. There have been reports of Henry repros in .44-40 blowing up the magazine when the user let the magazine follower slam down against rounds in the tube.