home gun - is this realistic, or just overkill testosterone?

[blades67]

I think the laser aiming device is testosterone induced and not needed. The 9mm is a better choice than .45 ACP for late night home defence because of muzzle flash. The .45 ACP has a huge fireball in total darkness, the 9mm has a much less intense flash signature. Bigger is not better in this instance. If you are in a Class III area, and are so inclined, get a supresser, and go with the .45 ACP. Also, get yourself a good knife; a Benchmade Axis Lock model would be an excellent choice.

[animal]

Lasers can definitely be traced back to the source....

About 10 months ago, I was delivering an eviction notice and collecting rent in an apartment complex. It was at night, in the parking lot, and things started getting a little tense. The next thing I knew, a little red dot was bouncing on the side of the building and moving fast toward me. I spun around and into a crouch as I drew my pistol. I ended up crouched behind my car, arms and pistol across the hood, aiming squarely at the chest of a teenage kid with a laser pointer. I am not sure how I knew where the beam was coming from but I did. I suspect that subconsciously I registered the change in size and shape of the dot as it moved across the different textures on the side of the building (best guess).Also, I'm only talking about appx. 3 feet of movement of the dot. Before this incident, I had been considering buying a laser - now I have no desire for one.

[bou3]

At least I'm not the only one that has a revolver for HD. I use a 44mag loaded down near 44spl loads.

[45King]

Ding wrote:

Personally I don't see the point of supressors for home defense firearms.

You've never had an unitential discharge indoors, have you? I have, with a .22. My ears rang for two days. I don't even want to think about the hearing damage I'd suffer if I had to touch off a .45 or a shotgun. I'm already down by 30% on hearing, I don't need to lose more.
Additionally, the suppressors also reduce muzzle flash, and that could certainly help in a low-light situation.



[Edited by 45King on 11-19-2000 at 10:19 AM]

[OkieGentleman]

I think I am with the rest of the guys.
No laser, good flashlite, rubber grips for a slipless grip, maybe even set the pistol up with a lanyard arrangement so it could not get lost in a scuffle or fall. A big yes would be given to the use of the amplified hearing protectors. If you had to pull off a round you will be deaf for a period of time and there might be two of them or worse yet the cops have shown up and are trying to get your attention. Remember noise can also be used as a weapon why else would tac teams use flash/bangs. I am deaf enough without adding to my problems I want to be able to hear the nice policeman ask me why I feared for my life.

[Dr45ACP]

criminals bleed to death faster through .45 cal holes than 38 or 9mm holes.

Hollowpoints may or may not expand.

think about it...

[355sigfan]

Dr45ACP
Its not about killing power but rather about stopping power. Fast jhp's almost always expand or fragment. The 45 is good but so is the 357 sig and mag.
PAT

[Quantum Singularity]

Please tell me how to post pictures on this board. I can't get it to work...

[Russell92]

you really don't need the laser. the M3 is a great thing to have. its very important to identify your target before you fire but the laser isn't really necessary. most shooting will be up close since your inside your house anyway.

my home defense handgun right now is a Glock 19 with an M3 and meprolight night sights. it will soon be replaced with a G22 with the M3 mounted on it and Heinie Straight Eight Slant Pros.

[Dr45ACP]

so fast JHP's almost always expand?

Thats exactly my point! They ALMOST ALWAYS expand... but what happens when they dont: you got a .38 cal hole.

Do I care if my 45ACP expands?? It would be nice... but is just icing on the cake.

[Casey]

I keep electronic hearing protection beside my house gun at all times. The batteries are regularly checked/replaced.

Am I going to get to use them? I don't know. If I have someone kick in the door and rush me, probably not. The only time I have needed a gun in the house I had plenty of time to use hearing protection (had I needed to fire the weapon).

This will give me several important advantages. First, if there is any gunfire, I will still be able to hear, and will not be in pain due to the noise (which you probably wouldn't notice in the excitement). Secondly, with the volume turned up slightly, I will be able to hear better than normally.

I still haven't figured out what to do about the vision. I have a SAR-3 and a Gold Cup, and am afraid that either will blind me at night.

Casey

[CastleBravo]

Muzzle flash is largely ammo *load* and barrel-length dependent. A .45 ACP Hydra-Shok has very little flash, but some cheapo Karjackistan-brand 9mm practice ammo might have a big ol' fireball. It's a matter of using flash-suppressed powder mainly, though a snubbie .357 Magnum is probably going to make a big flash regardless.

I'm not so sure noise ought to be that big a factor in your self-defense weapon choice. I've heard a hot-loaded .223 get touched off from a short-barreld rifle in a small indoor room and while it WAS damn loud and my ears were ringing, it didn't incapacitate me or render me deaf either. YMMV, but I found it kind of instructive.

I think for home defense a bigger worry should be flash and how easily you shoot the weapon well. Muzzle flash CAN ruin your night vision, and simplicity and ease of use count alot when you may not even be 100% awake.

*deposits $.02*

C.B.

[355sigfan]

Dr45ACP

A 45 that does not expand is only about 5% better than a 9mm that does not expand. 60% for the 9mm vs 65% for the 45 acp. I know of at least one good officer who died because the bad guy did not fall to hard ball after 4 hits and returned fire killing the officer. Ball suck in all caliber and a 45 that does not expand might as well be ball ammo.
PAT

[Dr45ACP]

355sigfan:

I have seen those percentages quoted also, and I guess they must be true, assuming the data used to obtain it is unbiased.

All I know is what I have personally seen as a surgeon, and I realize that this kind of evidence is anecdotal and perhaps should be taken with a grain of salt, but its hard for me to ignore. I am not a police officer, have never shot anybody myself, and hope I never have to. I also realize that if a criminal dies an hour after he is shot, that doesnt do you much good if you are a policeman on the street trying to make it home at the end of the day.

However, I have seen lots of gunshot victims who were shot with 9mm JHP, and the JHP bullets hadnt deformed at all, let alone expanded. Same is true for 38 special.

This is not so true for 357 mag - those usually expand or fragment, and do just fine. I dont think I have ever seen anyone shot with 357 sig, but on paper it looks like it should perform a lot like 357 mag. I am not a big fan of 357 mag, though, mainly because I find it harder to shoot than 45 ACP, but this is just my opinion.

I have seen very few people shot in the torso with 45 ACP survive. I am convinced they lose blood faster and are harder in general to save. This goes for hardball too, in my experience.

So that leaves me wondering why someone shot 4 times with 45 ACP didnt go down. The answer, undoubtedly, would be shot placement. Unless something that will immediately incapacitate him is hit, he's not going to go down, no matter what he was shot with (assuming handgun calibers only... rifle may be another matter althogether).

These are just my observations. The old 45 v 38 caliber debate will undoubtedly go on forever. Its an interesting debate.

[hickman]

On the laser question, I think the primary reason not to use them is that it interferes with "focus on the front sight" training. Add to this the above comments about batteries, etc., and you will understand why I have given up on the laser. I only miss mine for the assistance it offered in dryfiring. You can really tell if you are getting a surpise break on the trigger by watching the dot weave around on the wall!

[judge_dread]

Sounds like u need flood lights inside of your house with a bullet proof shield and a glock 17... now thats home protection... save the lasers for star wars

[loknload]

My home defense gun is my carry gun Glock 27 .40 S&W
Along with a 3 cell Kel light

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