Scattergun Tech Vs Vang Comp

Joey · August 3, 1999, 07:54 AM

I have a old beater of a 870 that I'd like to send away for the magical transformation into a "combat" shotgun for the wife. It will be her "Y2K" home defense gun as I'll be away when the dreaded Y2K event comes.

Which of the above companys should I send the shotgun off to or are their other gunsmiths that also specialize in rebulding the 870 into a tactical shotgun?

What all options should I look for when converting a shotgun?

Thanks Much!!!

Sid Post · August 3, 1999, 07:22 PM

Whoever builds your gun should use a VangComp barrel, period. I have a GunSite Rem 1187 with a VangComp barrel and it is simply awesome!!! I cannot say enough good things about that barrel. #4 Buck is as small as you want to go (really #2Buck is the best lower limit) as anything smaller really opens up way too fast. Triple Aught to #1Buck in this thing is the ultimate for those hard to solve close range urban situations

Having spent some time researching this subject myself, I feel both of your choices are good ones. There are a lot of good gunsmiths out there who can rework a "social" shotgun but, at this point in time, my money on an 870 would be spent with Hans Vang. He's not the cheapest on the block but, not the most expensive either and you get a lot of value for the dollars spent.

Sid
---
Tx FFL

[This message has been edited by Sid Post (edited August 03, 1999).]

Murray · August 3, 1999, 09:18 PM

How much is a Vang job on a 870????
I have a tricked out one already want the barrel done though...Thanks

Blue Jays · August 3, 1999, 11:22 PM

Hi Everyone-

Visit these sites for additional research:
http://www.vangcomp.com
http://www.robarguns.com
http://www.scattergun.com

I've utilized the services of both Vang Comp and ROBAR in the past few years.

Vang Comp was a delightful company with which to do business. ROBAR performs great work, but their customer service, timliness, and ability to follow directions could use improvement. Scattergun Tech is now owned by Wilson Combat, from what I've heard.

These are three capable companies, you'll be satisfied no matter which one you choose. Best of Luck and let us know what you decide.

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~

[This message has been edited by Blue Jays (edited August 04, 1999).]

Rob62 · August 5, 1999, 10:11 AM

Joey and others,
I just sent my shotgun (26 July) to Scattergun Technologies to have them do one of their "customer supplied gun rebuilds" on it. Unfortunately after talking to them yesterday my gun is one of the ones that they will be moving to the Wilson shop (if you didn't know it Wilson Combat Inc. the .45acp guys bought out Scattergun Tech.) I don't know what if any the difference will be in quality of Wilsons work. I do know that it is going to take at lease another 9+ weeks to get my gun back. Overall it would figure that when I finally decide to spend some bucks to have my guns professionally worked on that there would be some problem like this.
Rob

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------

Sid Post · August 5, 1999, 05:23 PM

Did you ask them to ship your shotgun back since the people you expected to do the work were not available and the delivery time was not acceptable?

Sid
---
Tx FFL

TaxPhd · August 6, 1999, 08:50 PM

Sid Post,

I am interested in your comment, "#4 Buck is as small as you want to go (really #2Buck is the best lower limit) as anything smaller really opens up way too fast."

Could you address the smaller opening up too fast issue? This has not been my experience, and I was wondering if my results were out of the ordinary.

Sid Post · August 7, 1999, 05:19 PM

I don't have my B-27's handy so, can't quote figures in inches or shot patterns verbatim.

At under 7 yards, I want 100% of the pellets in the target, no flyers are acceptable. With #4's, the pattern was spreading so fast, that while I still had good density, pellets were leaving the "man's" outline while still on paper. Across a room without intervening by standers in the way, this probably doesn't matter but, if the range opened up a little you would need to execute a shell drill to put something appropriate in use or run the risk of having stray pellets flying past the target and picking up unexpected 'victims'.

Your shotgun may in fact handle the smaller pellets better then mine or, perhaps my criteria for "acceptable" for use is not the same as yours. It really depends on what you are trying to with the shotgun. I really like tight dense equally spread out patterns. With the larger size buck, I know I could pick off someone holding a hostage in the classic "peek-a-bo bad guy" scene because there are no flyers and I absolutely know how my shotgun will pattern 100% of the time and the total pattern size is not too large.

Sid

Jeff Thomas · August 9, 1999, 10:37 PM

Joey, I'll put in a good word for Hans Vang. You'll never deal with a nicer guy or better company, IMHO. I've dealt with Robar as well, and they're good folks. I don't have any experience dealing with Scattergun, but I did call them before I bought, and they seemed fairly helpful as well.

Hans is a shotgun expert, and to my knowledge, this is pretty much all he does. If you go the whole nine yards, including 18" ported barrel, SureFire foreend, magazine extension (with high-visibility follower), sidesaddle, MMC sights, Giles sling, etc., then it will set you back about $1,200 as I recall. But, send an email to Hans and Bill (his sidekick), and they'll give you specific pricing and suggestions. Or call, and speak to Hans directly. I can tell you from personal experience that he is very 'user-friendly' when it comes to folks that have an 870, but aren't exactly sure what changes they want or need.

At a minimum, I would respectfully suggest you consider an 18" barrel (bead sight, cylinder bore - Remington probably best, but Mossberg barrel's are available as well), mag extension, sidesaddle, and Giles sling. This gives you the basics at a reasonable price (approximately $300 to $400, as I recall), and turns that hunting shotgun into much more of a defensive shotgun. If you can stand the expense, add the Vang Comp ported barrel with MMC sights (consider tritium in the front as well). Or, simply add that later when it makes sense financially. The SureFire foreend is clearly not only a matter of expense (high), but also personal preference and a debate in and of itself.

Call Hans before you decide. He is quite a guy, and again, one of the most helpful fellows I've found in the firearms business.

I haven't been in the 870 market lately, but move fast - I hear they are becoming scarce, and I would assume that may translate to the parts as well. On the other hand, those rumors may simply be more Y2K hype, I don't know.

Good luck, and regards from AZ.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited August 09, 1999).]

Skorzeny · August 10, 1999, 08:25 AM

Jeff Thomas:

I noticed that you recommended porting on a self-defense shotgun.

I've heard both ways on Vang Comp porting. One group of people tell me never to put porting on a self-defense shotgun as it will 1) possibly expose me to errant gas and 2) create blinding balls of flame at night. Another group of people tell me that Vang Comp porting produces negligible amount of gas & flame.

Which is it? I'd like to know what you think of Vang Comp porting. Thanks.

Skorzeny

------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

Jeff Thomas · August 10, 1999, 10:01 AM

Skorzeny, I still need to take it out at night to test this concern. However, LEO's apparently use a lot of these barrels, and I don't think they are limited to daytime use!

To be honest, these complaints don't seem to make much sense to me. Being exposed to errant gasses? The porting ends at least 2 feet from your face, even with an 18 inch barrel. I've used mine in a 2 day Gunsite class, and we fired around 500 rounds as I recall. None of us with ported barrels suffered any ill effects, other than to have the instructors borrow our guns now and then because they prefer the ported barrels.

While you might reasonably feel he has an 'ax to grind', you should ask Hans about these concerns. Take care.

bruels · August 10, 1999, 11:37 AM

I have a Mossberg 500 with a Vang Comp ported barrel. I have fired it at night and the flame pattern from the ports is minimal.

PEA SHOOTER · August 10, 1999, 06:08 PM

FELLAS FELLAS!!You make this sound like these guys are the only 2 alternatives on the planet!
We have been reaming forceing cones , back boring and porting barrels on our sporting clays guns for quite a few years now. Basically the theory goes like this:
Pressure and the ejecta/load = perceived recoil.
Back boring the barrel increases the volume of the barrel,thus lower pressure,lower pressure= less shot deformation.
Average 12 gauge Barrels are nominally .729
Back boring to .735 to a max of .740
Depending on OD of the Barrel."Berretta doesn't back bore their barrels"
Same with lengthening of the forcing cones
and the porting.There are different types of porting with varying results of reduction of perceived recoil.
There are writeups on the different types/pro port ,angle porting magna port..ect...Try talking to Ballistic Specialies 800-276-2550,
Briley 800-331-5718
and Seminole Gunworks 800-980-3344
The porting doesnt affect your night vision as much as does the barrel length.

Rob62 · August 16, 1999, 12:10 PM

Sid,
Didn't catch your question till now. No I didn't ask them to send it back to me. I'll just cross my fingers and wait. FWIW I talked to Wilson Cbt. they said that the Scattergun Tech guns/equipment should be arriving at their shop this Thursday (19 Aug). They did'nt know what the turnaround time would be and were unsure about the warranty. But they said it would be at least 5 years, which was Scatterguns Techs warranty. I'm hoping that they underwrite the warranty with Wislon's Lifetime Warranty. And really hope that I can get this gun back by the end of September.
Rob

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------

August 3, 1999, 07:54 AM	#1
Joey Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Posts: 437	I have a old beater of a 870 that I'd like to send away for the magical transformation into a "combat" shotgun for the wife. It will be her "Y2K" home defense gun as I'll be away when the dreaded Y2K event comes. Which of the above companys should I send the shotgun off to or are their other gunsmiths that also specialize in rebulding the 870 into a tactical shotgun? What all options should I look for when converting a shotgun? Thanks Much!!!

August 3, 1999, 07:22 PM	#2
Sid Post Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 1999 Posts: 107	Whoever builds your gun should use a VangComp barrel, period. I have a GunSite Rem 1187 with a VangComp barrel and it is simply awesome!!! I cannot say enough good things about that barrel. #4 Buck is as small as you want to go (really #2Buck is the best lower limit) as anything smaller really opens up way too fast. Triple Aught to #1Buck in this thing is the ultimate for those hard to solve close range urban situations Having spent some time researching this subject myself, I feel both of your choices are good ones. There are a lot of good gunsmiths out there who can rework a "social" shotgun but, at this point in time, my money on an 870 would be spent with Hans Vang. He's not the cheapest on the block but, not the most expensive either and you get a lot of value for the dollars spent. Sid --- Tx FFL [This message has been edited by Sid Post (edited August 03, 1999).]

August 3, 1999, 09:18 PM	#3
Murray Member Join Date: June 11, 1999 Posts: 39	How much is a Vang job on a 870???? I have a tricked out one already want the barrel done though...Thanks

August 3, 1999, 11:22 PM	#4
Blue Jays Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 1999 Location: United States Posts: 395	Hi Everyone- Visit these sites for additional research: http://www.vangcomp.com http://www.robarguns.com http://www.scattergun.com I've utilized the services of both Vang Comp and ROBAR in the past few years. Vang Comp was a delightful company with which to do business. ROBAR performs great work, but their customer service, timliness, and ability to follow directions could use improvement. Scattergun Tech is now owned by Wilson Combat, from what I've heard. These are three capable companies, you'll be satisfied no matter which one you choose. Best of Luck and let us know what you decide. Regards, ~ Blue Jays ~ [This message has been edited by Blue Jays (edited August 04, 1999).]

August 5, 1999, 10:11 AM	#5
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	Joey and others, I just sent my shotgun (26 July) to Scattergun Technologies to have them do one of their "customer supplied gun rebuilds" on it. Unfortunately after talking to them yesterday my gun is one of the ones that they will be moving to the Wilson shop (if you didn't know it Wilson Combat Inc. the .45acp guys bought out Scattergun Tech.) I don't know what if any the difference will be in quality of Wilsons work. I do know that it is going to take at lease another 9+ weeks to get my gun back. Overall it would figure that when I finally decide to spend some bucks to have my guns professionally worked on that there would be some problem like this. Rob ------------------ It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish. -----------------

August 5, 1999, 05:23 PM	#6
Sid Post Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 1999 Posts: 107	Did you ask them to ship your shotgun back since the people you expected to do the work were not available and the delivery time was not acceptable? Sid --- Tx FFL

August 6, 1999, 08:50 PM	#7
TaxPhd Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 534	Sid Post, I am interested in your comment, "#4 Buck is as small as you want to go (really #2Buck is the best lower limit) as anything smaller really opens up way too fast." Could you address the smaller opening up too fast issue? This has not been my experience, and I was wondering if my results were out of the ordinary.

August 7, 1999, 05:19 PM	#8
Sid Post Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 1999 Posts: 107	I don't have my B-27's handy so, can't quote figures in inches or shot patterns verbatim. At under 7 yards, I want 100% of the pellets in the target, no flyers are acceptable. With #4's, the pattern was spreading so fast, that while I still had good density, pellets were leaving the "man's" outline while still on paper. Across a room without intervening by standers in the way, this probably doesn't matter but, if the range opened up a little you would need to execute a shell drill to put something appropriate in use or run the risk of having stray pellets flying past the target and picking up unexpected 'victims'. Your shotgun may in fact handle the smaller pellets better then mine or, perhaps my criteria for "acceptable" for use is not the same as yours. It really depends on what you are trying to with the shotgun. I really like tight dense equally spread out patterns. With the larger size buck, I know I could pick off someone holding a hostage in the classic "peek-a-bo bad guy" scene because there are no flyers and I absolutely know how my shotgun will pattern 100% of the time and the total pattern size is not too large. Sid

August 9, 1999, 10:37 PM	#9
Jeff Thomas Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1998 Location: Texas Posts: 4,753	Joey, I'll put in a good word for Hans Vang. You'll never deal with a nicer guy or better company, IMHO. I've dealt with Robar as well, and they're good folks. I don't have any experience dealing with Scattergun, but I did call them before I bought, and they seemed fairly helpful as well. Hans is a shotgun expert, and to my knowledge, this is pretty much all he does. If you go the whole nine yards, including 18" ported barrel, SureFire foreend, magazine extension (with high-visibility follower), sidesaddle, MMC sights, Giles sling, etc., then it will set you back about $1,200 as I recall. But, send an email to Hans and Bill (his sidekick), and they'll give you specific pricing and suggestions. Or call, and speak to Hans directly. I can tell you from personal experience that he is very 'user-friendly' when it comes to folks that have an 870, but aren't exactly sure what changes they want or need. At a minimum, I would respectfully suggest you consider an 18" barrel (bead sight, cylinder bore - Remington probably best, but Mossberg barrel's are available as well), mag extension, sidesaddle, and Giles sling. This gives you the basics at a reasonable price (approximately $300 to $400, as I recall), and turns that hunting shotgun into much more of a defensive shotgun. If you can stand the expense, add the Vang Comp ported barrel with MMC sights (consider tritium in the front as well). Or, simply add that later when it makes sense financially. The SureFire foreend is clearly not only a matter of expense (high), but also personal preference and a debate in and of itself. Call Hans before you decide. He is quite a guy, and again, one of the most helpful fellows I've found in the firearms business. I haven't been in the 870 market lately, but move fast - I hear they are becoming scarce, and I would assume that may translate to the parts as well. On the other hand, those rumors may simply be more Y2K hype, I don't know. Good luck, and regards from AZ. [This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited August 09, 1999).]

August 10, 1999, 08:25 AM	#10
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	Jeff Thomas: I noticed that you recommended porting on a self-defense shotgun. I've heard both ways on Vang Comp porting. One group of people tell me never to put porting on a self-defense shotgun as it will 1) possibly expose me to errant gas and 2) create blinding balls of flame at night. Another group of people tell me that Vang Comp porting produces negligible amount of gas & flame. Which is it? I'd like to know what you think of Vang Comp porting. Thanks. Skorzeny ------------------ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

August 10, 1999, 10:01 AM	#11
Jeff Thomas Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1998 Location: Texas Posts: 4,753	Skorzeny, I still need to take it out at night to test this concern. However, LEO's apparently use a lot of these barrels, and I don't think they are limited to daytime use! To be honest, these complaints don't seem to make much sense to me. Being exposed to errant gasses? The porting ends at least 2 feet from your face, even with an 18 inch barrel. I've used mine in a 2 day Gunsite class, and we fired around 500 rounds as I recall. None of us with ported barrels suffered any ill effects, other than to have the instructors borrow our guns now and then because they prefer the ported barrels. While you might reasonably feel he has an 'ax to grind', you should ask Hans about these concerns. Take care.

August 10, 1999, 11:37 AM	#12
bruels Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1998 Location: Hayden, ID, USA Posts: 1,102	I have a Mossberg 500 with a Vang Comp ported barrel. I have fired it at night and the flame pattern from the ports is minimal.

August 10, 1999, 06:08 PM	#13
PEA SHOOTER Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Posts: 76	FELLAS FELLAS!!You make this sound like these guys are the only 2 alternatives on the planet! We have been reaming forceing cones , back boring and porting barrels on our sporting clays guns for quite a few years now. Basically the theory goes like this: Pressure and the ejecta/load = perceived recoil. Back boring the barrel increases the volume of the barrel,thus lower pressure,lower pressure= less shot deformation. Average 12 gauge Barrels are nominally .729 Back boring to .735 to a max of .740 Depending on OD of the Barrel."Berretta doesn't back bore their barrels" Same with lengthening of the forcing cones and the porting.There are different types of porting with varying results of reduction of perceived recoil. There are writeups on the different types/pro port ,angle porting magna port..ect...Try talking to Ballistic Specialies 800-276-2550, Briley 800-331-5718 and Seminole Gunworks 800-980-3344 The porting doesnt affect your night vision as much as does the barrel length.

August 16, 1999, 12:10 PM	#14
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	Sid, Didn't catch your question till now. No I didn't ask them to send it back to me. I'll just cross my fingers and wait. FWIW I talked to Wilson Cbt. they said that the Scattergun Tech guns/equipment should be arriving at their shop this Thursday (19 Aug). They did'nt know what the turnaround time would be and were unsure about the warranty. But they said it would be at least 5 years, which was Scatterguns Techs warranty. I'm hoping that they underwrite the warranty with Wislon's Lifetime Warranty. And really hope that I can get this gun back by the end of September. Rob ------------------ It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish. -----------------