Hollow base bulleta

1stmar · October 26, 2013, 03:25 PM

Just picked up some 380 bulleta and found out they are hollow base. Anyone know how this effects pressure ? What's the point of a hollow base? Are they typically more or less accurate ?

Thanks guys

jwrowland77 · October 26, 2013, 05:29 PM

I believe from what I've read, as the gas expands, it cause the hollow base to expand and get a good seal while pushing the bullet down the muzzle.

adrians · October 26, 2013, 05:36 PM

jwrowland77 summed it up about right.

Nick_C_S · October 26, 2013, 05:44 PM

Yep. Above is correct.

The base of the bullet "obturates" - uhh, it expands up, sealing the base of the bullet against the barrel lands n grooves. It basically maximizes velocity and accuracy, while minimizing barrel leading (if applicable)

It does, however, have a drawback. When loaded too hot, they will over-obturate - distort, if you will - potentially causing barrel damage and other issues. The least of which, being a very inaccurate round.

Valornor · October 26, 2013, 08:31 PM

Are the hollow or dish based?

zxcvbob · October 26, 2013, 08:38 PM

I think they are hollow-base just to make the bullets longer; longer bearing surface and more weight-forward for more accuracy. (regular .380 bullets are short and stubby)

.380 is not that high of a pressure cartridge.

Nick_C_S · October 26, 2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

I think they are hollow-base just to make the bullets longer; longer bearing surface and more weight-forward for more accuracy. (regular .380 bullets are short and stubby)

.380 is not that high of a pressure cartridge.

Ahh, good point. That makes sense.

saitek · October 26, 2013, 10:49 PM

it give's you a little bit longer bullet to help stabilize the bullet and you can get a lighter bullet to manage recoil better .they kinda act like a mini ball sealing the barrel when fired .

Valornor · October 27, 2013, 12:33 AM

Never seen that before in a modern pistol bullet. What brand? I've seen played bullets be dished before but not hollow.

snapshot762 · October 27, 2013, 01:02 AM

Berry's bullets.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14...TP_1000ct.aspx

Hammerhead · October 27, 2013, 01:46 AM

No effect on pressure as they take up the same case volume as a standard base bullet, it's just shaped differently.

Valornor · October 27, 2013, 02:00 AM

I realize this is kind of hijacking the thread, but does anyone have a range report? I'd be interested in seeing a side by side comparison between a the two bullet designs. I really can't image there would be huge difference in performance.

1stmar · October 27, 2013, 02:17 AM

Appreciate the responses. They are berrys, I have previously bought berrys, same weight but they were not hollow base. Plan on going to the range today I will compare accuracy with the 2, flat base and hollow base. The flat base I got very good accuracy in my lcp less the. 2" group at 10 yards. Given the sights and the trigger I was very pleased with that. Will report back.

g.willikers · October 27, 2013, 12:00 PM

Pretty sure that the hollow based bullet is more about a length vs weight design thing than sealing the bore.
The original Minie design was for a large caliber with soft lead bullets and no jacket.
They loaded easier from the front than ball and patch, and still engaged the rifling when fired.
From my own muzzle loader experience, they are not nearly as accurate as the ball and patch, though.
How that translates to the reason for modern hollow based bullets.....??

FrankenMauser · October 27, 2013, 10:28 PM

Load them to the same OAL as you would any flat base bullet of the same weight and nose profile. The volume inside the loaded round remains essentially the same, even if the base of the bullet is seated deeper than a corresponding flat base bullet (the hollow base makes up for it).

Quote:

It does, however, have a drawback. When loaded too hot, they will over-obturate - distort, if you will - potentially causing barrel damage and other issues. The least of which, being a very inaccurate round.

Hollow base bullets will do nothing to your barrel, that the high pressure gasses won't do on their own.

In theory, you can get a little "over expansion" of the base/skirt as the bullet is exiting the barrel. But, in practice... it's a complete waste of time to worry about such things. I've never seen anyone that has been able to document the phenomenon or any evidence of it, nor have I seen evidence of it with BHN 7 (super soft) hollow base wadcutters, in 30k+ psi .327 Federal loads.
They lead the barrel like crazy, but they don't 'over expand' as they exit.

There is nothing to worry about, besides the every-present "Is my firearm going to like this bullet, or print shotgun patterns with it?"

warhwkbb · October 28, 2013, 10:59 AM

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but in 45 ACP, the 185gr Hollow Based Berry's have been the most accurate bullets I have found at target velocities in my Les Bauer PII.

RickB · October 28, 2013, 12:09 PM

I've used a lot of hollow-base 200gr bullets in .45 ACP. There is not merely a rounded depression in the base, but a deep hole, almost like that of a hollowpoint.
I was thinking that the point was to create a longer bearing surface for a given weight, as broached above, and there might be something to that, but I did run into problems apparently related to the change in relationship between bullet weight and internal case capacity.
When I used the load data that I'd used for flat-based bullets, velocities were down. To get back to the velocity I wanted, I had to exceed recommended max loads for my powder of choice. By reducing OAL, I was able to get the charge weight/velocity relationship I was used to; to get the same velocity with the hollow base round nose as with plain base round nose, I had to shorten OAL to 1.2" from 1.26".

serf 'rett · October 28, 2013, 01:56 PM

From Berry's web site:

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14...RN_1000ct.aspx

Quote:

The "Hollow Base" in the base of the bullet allows us to make a longer profile without adding weight. For example if we were to hollow base a 230gr .45 ACP bullet, it now weighs 185gr.. The longer profile gives more "Bearing Surface" on the bullet, which helps a pistol barrel stabilize the bullet.

As previously stated, effect on pressure should be minor.

Range Report?

2" with an LCP is good. Are you shooting the LCP offhand or from a rest?

1stmar · October 28, 2013, 06:25 PM

Regrettably I didn't make it to the range this past weekend. Will get there sat or Sunday should be picking up a new m1a and a recently bedded 06. So I have some toys to try out.
Shooting offhand. I love that thing, I'm amazed every time I shoot it how accurate and easy it is to shoot. I shoot dueling post at 25 yds with ease.

1stmar · November 2, 2013, 05:35 PM

Went to the range today and did quite a bit of rifle, then finished up with the 380. My eyes never really got settled in so I cheated. I have a laserlyte side mount and since I was having trouble focusing I figured for shooting groups I'd use the laser. 5 shot group with the flat base 100 gr berrys over 3.4gr of 231 were 1.66". 5 shot group with the hollow base 100gr berrys over 3.4gr of 231 were 1.59". No difference. I then loaded a mag with alternate rounds of flat and hollow base and shot 5 shot string to see if I could notice any difference in recoil as potentially an indicator of pressure. I have no pressure measuring device and I realize this may not be an indicator of pressure. I couldn't tell any difference. If my eyes were working better I would have gone back to 25yds but I think after shooting through a scope for so long I just couldn't get focused. Anyway unscientific but from my perspective there is no discernible difference. All shots were offhand.

Valornor · November 2, 2013, 06:26 PM

That's some nice offhand shooting;-)

Well that is good to know that there isn't much of a difference. What pistol where you using?

1stmar · November 2, 2013, 07:30 PM

Thank you, Ruger lcp

Valornor · November 2, 2013, 09:15 PM

I use to own one. I did like the pocket pistol concept, but I opted for a subcompact and ended up selling the LCP. I didn't like the recoil and the fact that training with it felt more like a chore then a good time

However I'm thinking I might pick up some thing similar if I can find a pocket pistol that more comfortable to shoot.

1stmar · November 2, 2013, 09:38 PM

I haven't found the recoil objectionable. I used to have a sig p230 and that was horrible to shoot. I think it was the fixed barrel blow back. Wolf makes 13lb recoil springs which may soften recoil bit.

Oldgoat03 · November 5, 2013, 01:32 PM

In my experience the hollow base (HB) bullets help with neck tension by providing longer skirt for neck to grip. This all but elimitnates setback with some thinner walled brass.

A bit off topic but in respnse to a recent "Valornor" above ... my family has LCp, Keltec P3At and S&W BG in 380. By far my favorite is the BG in terms of comfortable to shoot and trigger. Also I load up fairly soft recoil loads for my wife and daughter to practice with. They used to hate the recoil and now they enjoy shooting these "pocket pistols".

October 26, 2013, 03:25 PM	#1
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Hollow base bulleta Just picked up some 380 bulleta and found out they are hollow base. Anyone know how this effects pressure ? What's the point of a hollow base? Are they typically more or less accurate ? Thanks guys

October 26, 2013, 05:29 PM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Hollow base bulleta I believe from what I've read, as the gas expands, it cause the hollow base to expand and get a good seal while pushing the bullet down the muzzle.

October 26, 2013, 05:36 PM	#3
adrians Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2010 Location: mountain view ,ar. Posts: 184	jwrowland77 summed it up about right. __________________ instant karma's gonna get you , knock you right in the face...... j.w.l.

October 26, 2013, 05:44 PM	#4
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Yep. Above is correct. The base of the bullet "obturates" - uhh, it expands up, sealing the base of the bullet against the barrel lands n grooves. It basically maximizes velocity and accuracy, while minimizing barrel leading (if applicable) It does, however, have a drawback. When loaded too hot, they will over-obturate - distort, if you will - potentially causing barrel damage and other issues. The least of which, being a very inaccurate round. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

October 26, 2013, 08:38 PM	#6
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I think they are hollow-base just to make the bullets longer; longer bearing surface and more weight-forward for more accuracy. (regular .380 bullets are short and stubby) .380 is not that high of a pressure cartridge. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

October 26, 2013, 08:31 PM	#5
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	Are the hollow or dish based?

October 26, 2013, 10:49 PM	#8
saitek Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2011 Location: iowa Posts: 100	hollow base it give's you a little bit longer bullet to help stabilize the bullet and you can get a lighter bullet to manage recoil better .they kinda act like a mini ball sealing the barrel when fired .

October 27, 2013, 12:33 AM	#9
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	Never seen that before in a modern pistol bullet. What brand? I've seen played bullets be dished before but not hollow.

October 27, 2013, 01:02 AM	#10
snapshot762 Member Join Date: September 27, 2013 Posts: 51	Berry's bullets. http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14...TP_1000ct.aspx

October 27, 2013, 01:46 AM	#11
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	No effect on pressure as they take up the same case volume as a standard base bullet, it's just shaped differently.

October 27, 2013, 02:00 AM	#12
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	I realize this is kind of hijacking the thread, but does anyone have a range report? I'd be interested in seeing a side by side comparison between a the two bullet designs. I really can't image there would be huge difference in performance.

October 27, 2013, 02:17 AM	#13
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Hollow base bulleta Appreciate the responses. They are berrys, I have previously bought berrys, same weight but they were not hollow base. Plan on going to the range today I will compare accuracy with the 2, flat base and hollow base. The flat base I got very good accuracy in my lcp less the. 2" group at 10 yards. Given the sights and the trigger I was very pleased with that. Will report back.

October 27, 2013, 12:00 PM	#14
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Pretty sure that the hollow based bullet is more about a length vs weight design thing than sealing the bore. The original Minie design was for a large caliber with soft lead bullets and no jacket. They loaded easier from the front than ball and patch, and still engaged the rifling when fired. From my own muzzle loader experience, they are not nearly as accurate as the ball and patch, though. How that translates to the reason for modern hollow based bullets.....?? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; October 27, 2013 at 12:07 PM.

October 28, 2013, 10:59 AM	#16
warhwkbb Member Join Date: September 1, 2011 Posts: 32	Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but in 45 ACP, the 185gr Hollow Based Berry's have been the most accurate bullets I have found at target velocities in my Les Bauer PII.

October 28, 2013, 12:09 PM	#17
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I've used a lot of hollow-base 200gr bullets in .45 ACP. There is not merely a rounded depression in the base, but a deep hole, almost like that of a hollowpoint. I was thinking that the point was to create a longer bearing surface for a given weight, as broached above, and there might be something to that, but I did run into problems apparently related to the change in relationship between bullet weight and internal case capacity. When I used the load data that I'd used for flat-based bullets, velocities were down. To get back to the velocity I wanted, I had to exceed recommended max loads for my powder of choice. By reducing OAL, I was able to get the charge weight/velocity relationship I was used to; to get the same velocity with the hollow base round nose as with plain base round nose, I had to shorten OAL to 1.2" from 1.26".

October 28, 2013, 06:25 PM	#19
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Hollow base bulleta Regrettably I didn't make it to the range this past weekend. Will get there sat or Sunday should be picking up a new m1a and a recently bedded 06. So I have some toys to try out. Shooting offhand. I love that thing, I'm amazed every time I shoot it how accurate and easy it is to shoot. I shoot dueling post at 25 yds with ease.

November 2, 2013, 05:35 PM	#20
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Hollow base bulleta Went to the range today and did quite a bit of rifle, then finished up with the 380. My eyes never really got settled in so I cheated. I have a laserlyte side mount and since I was having trouble focusing I figured for shooting groups I'd use the laser. 5 shot group with the flat base 100 gr berrys over 3.4gr of 231 were 1.66". 5 shot group with the hollow base 100gr berrys over 3.4gr of 231 were 1.59". No difference. I then loaded a mag with alternate rounds of flat and hollow base and shot 5 shot string to see if I could notice any difference in recoil as potentially an indicator of pressure. I have no pressure measuring device and I realize this may not be an indicator of pressure. I couldn't tell any difference. If my eyes were working better I would have gone back to 25yds but I think after shooting through a scope for so long I just couldn't get focused. Anyway unscientific but from my perspective there is no discernible difference. All shots were offhand.

November 2, 2013, 06:26 PM	#21
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	That's some nice offhand shooting;-) Well that is good to know that there isn't much of a difference. What pistol where you using?

November 2, 2013, 07:30 PM	#22
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Thank you, Ruger lcp

November 2, 2013, 09:15 PM	#23
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	I use to own one. I did like the pocket pistol concept, but I opted for a subcompact and ended up selling the LCP. I didn't like the recoil and the fact that training with it felt more like a chore then a good time However I'm thinking I might pick up some thing similar if I can find a pocket pistol that more comfortable to shoot.

November 2, 2013, 09:38 PM	#24
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	I haven't found the recoil objectionable. I used to have a sig p230 and that was horrible to shoot. I think it was the fixed barrel blow back. Wolf makes 13lb recoil springs which may soften recoil bit.

November 5, 2013, 01:32 PM	#25
Oldgoat03 Member Join Date: March 8, 2012 Location: Western Wa. Posts: 20	Hollow Base help with neck tension / setback In my experience the hollow base (HB) bullets help with neck tension by providing longer skirt for neck to grip. This all but elimitnates setback with some thinner walled brass. A bit off topic but in respnse to a recent "Valornor" above ... my family has LCp, Keltec P3At and S&W BG in 380. By far my favorite is the BG in terms of comfortable to shoot and trigger. Also I load up fairly soft recoil loads for my wife and daughter to practice with. They used to hate the recoil and now they enjoy shooting these "pocket pistols".