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September 6, 2011, 04:36 PM | #26 | |
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If one can choose, one can do a lot better than a .22. |
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September 6, 2011, 06:08 PM | #27 | ||
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September 7, 2011, 02:52 PM | #28 | ||
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Why cant you guys understand some old timers just dont go with your flow? Bigger isnt always better. My carry is a colt new agent in .45 acp fyi. But in the barn is a 22 in the truck is a 22 in the tractors cab is a 22. What happened to using your head and adapting to what you have on hand? You guys kill me when will it be enough for ya? a 600 nitro? lol miss that first shot the guy with a 22 will shoot 10 or 12 times... or dont you think you might just miss that first shot? lol |
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September 7, 2011, 06:39 PM | #29 | |||
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It's too bad you don't seem to recognize the difference between improvising in extremis and preparing ahead of time. There may be extraordinary circumstances in which the .22 lr could be a reasonable choice -- if one is infirm and simply can't manage anything bigger, for example. But if one can choose ahead of time and manage something bigger, a .22 lr is a poor choice. Quote:
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September 7, 2011, 07:06 PM | #30 |
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What he said
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September 7, 2011, 07:37 PM | #31 | |||||
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As for going with the flow...you are the one swimming up stream.
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
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September 7, 2011, 08:44 PM | #32 |
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DNS, I used the charging polar bear as an example based on something familiar to Mark, hunting, to help him understand the difference between hunting and self defense. Shot placement being hyper important with the puny little 22 and very difficult to achieve on a moving deadly threat.
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September 8, 2011, 08:23 AM | #33 |
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I understand about the example. markj keeps talking about hunting as if hunting had anything to do with self defense in this situation. You tried to cater to his out of context references by bringing up self defense against a charging animal. That still isn't hunting, of course, but markj's responses still seem to indicate that just because it can be done, killing an animal with a .22, that somehow it means the caliber is suitable for self defense or has a strong likelihood of being effective in self defense.
You can kill a polar bear with an ice pick, but that doesn't make it a good weapon for self defense either.
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September 8, 2011, 08:53 AM | #34 |
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Gotcha
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September 8, 2011, 04:49 PM | #35 | ||
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I SAID I CARRY A 45 BUT IF ALL I HAD WAS A 22 I WOULD USE IT. CANT YOU READ? OR DO YOU JUST CHOOSE TO POST AND THINK YOU ARE ALL THAT? I was shot by a bad guy once, stabbed another time. I have a bit of xp. with bad folks and getting hurt and avoiding getting hurt. I dont want a newbie to think he is unarmed if all he has is a 22. Now go on and post I dont know this and Idont know that crap. I do know how to defend myself and have done so successfully in the past. I survived a shooting hows about you? Quote:
Next you will be telling me I need hps instead of fmj....just like a comercial. |
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September 8, 2011, 05:47 PM | #36 |
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I always heard that if you wanted to really mess a bad guy up, to shoot him in the head with a .22, because the bullet goes in & then just rattles around inside the skull, pretty much guaranteeing immobilisation. Bigger calibers go through?
I'm not at all knowledgeable about using a gun for SD; hope it doesn't come down to that. Given a choice between using my little .22 revolver and some bad guy stealing my stuff or harming my family, I'm going to use my head & all available cover, and put as many of the 9 available rounds in dude's face. I feel I could probably be somewhat less judicious with the 17 rounds in my 9mm, however. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk |
September 8, 2011, 06:03 PM | #37 | |||
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Nobody here has suggested or intimated that only having a .22 means that you are unarmed. In fact, that would be 100% counter to the definition of being armed. I would suggest you reread the thread if that was your concern. I think you will be relieved to know that newbies won't be confused even if you may have been. Quote:
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange Last edited by Double Naught Spy; September 8, 2011 at 10:14 PM. |
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September 8, 2011, 06:18 PM | #38 | ||
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No deadly force for "stuff"
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September 8, 2011, 06:19 PM | #39 | ||
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September 8, 2011, 08:08 PM | #40 | |||||||||
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If all I had was a .22, of course I'd use that. If all I had was a sharp stick, I'd use that. If all I had was a fireplace poker, I'd use that. But when I choose what I'm going to [legally] carry around with me in case I may have to defend myself, I'm not going to choose a .22, a sharp stick or a fireplace poker. There are better choices. The fact that one implement or another can be pressed into service for self defense in an emergency when nothing else is at hand doesn't necessarily make a wise choice if you have the opportunity to choose in advance of need. Quote:
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[1] Shot placement is of course vital with small calibers like the .22. But shot placement remains important if you hope to effectively and quickly stop an attacker even when you're using a more powerful gun. [2] Spraying the countryside with 9mm bullets, and putting innocents in jeopardy, is irresponsible and a very bad idea. speedfreeq, it looks like you would benefit from some good, professional training. |
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September 8, 2011, 08:40 PM | #41 | |
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The only thing you know about me you gleaned from a single post from a new forum member. I'm a veteran, with a valid CCW and a decent shot group. "It looks like you would benefit from some good" taking yourself a little less seriously. I was simply participating in a conversation. Was unaware there was a professor lecturing... my bad. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk |
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September 8, 2011, 08:53 PM | #42 | ||
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However, it's still not obvious that you fully understand self defense issues, especially when you make statements like, "...using my little .22 revolver and some bad guy stealing my stuff ..." or "...put as many of the 9 available rounds in dude's face. I feel I could probably be somewhat less judicious with the 17 rounds in my 9mm,..." One may draw inferences about what you know from what you write. And having a valid CCW is a fine thing, but many States have no training requirement to get a CCW; and even in all of the States with a training requirement, it's pretty minimal. Quote:
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September 8, 2011, 09:06 PM | #43 |
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September 8, 2011, 09:45 PM | #44 |
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speedfreeq, your comments fully justified fiddletown's feedback. If you believe your own remarks, then your training and judgement are suspect.
If you just threw them out there to be funny, please realize a lot of people who don't have much training and who don't know any better might take them seriously. Either way, you are not representing yourself well. |
September 8, 2011, 10:06 PM | #45 | |
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For the record and the benefit of any random persons who seem to find themselves concerned, I am indeed aware of the definition and fairly narrow permitted use of deadly force. I understand that I may not haphazardly fire upon an innocent mugger or burglar unless I'm reasonably sure I'm in vital danger. Furthermore, I apologize profusely for contributing to an increasingly absurd argument that was already considerably OT with an equally absurd statement ironically meant to draw attention to the aforementioned absurdity. As for the matter of how I'm representing myself... it's an internet forum; ergo, it's essentially a futile exercise. Think of me what you will. You're probably wrong. Done here. Forget you saw me. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk |
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September 8, 2011, 10:20 PM | #46 | |
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September 9, 2011, 05:46 AM | #47 |
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WOW That was major funny. Speedfreeq very funny. You absolutely deserved what you got but it was a blast. If you were joking you should have said so. If not you should be corrected. Thanks all the same for making this morning bright.
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September 9, 2011, 08:30 AM | #48 |
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Wow.
We have someone drawing conclusions from a single gunfight, with some importance attributed to which of the wounded survived and which did not. We have reference to "a caliber despised for allegedly lacking stopping power (9mm)". We have someone believing that a "valid CCW and a decent shot group" equips him for a violent encounter with one or more assailants.... ...who contends that, in an encounter in which deadly force is justified because it is immediately necessary to defend against imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, he will somehow be able to shoot an attacker in the face nine times before being overcome. We have people introducing hunting experience and the slaughter of livestock into the discussion. All of this is under a topic called "what matters is shot placement." So, what should the neophyte take into account?
Finally, relevant training is extremely important. |
September 9, 2011, 08:41 AM | #49 |
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Good post, Old Marksman.
I'd add the following: 1) A .22 that the shooter can handle and is willing to carry is much better than nothing (and old age, arthritis, small stature can potentially limit somebody to a .22, based on hand strength). 2) However, a round that has better penetration, more reliable ignition (IE centerfire), and a good probability of breaking bone, if it hits large bone, is better - assuming one can carry and control it. 3) Learning to "shoot to stop" will get people to quit fixating on round count, per se; it takes what it takes, under the circumstances in which it occurs; this could be one shot, or it could be a dozen. 4) Given 3) more capacity is never a bad thing. 5) Something I almost never see brought up, when people talk about carrying spare ammunition, is that it might be nice to be able to reload, after the encounter, for the period between the shooting and the arrival of the police. The BG might have friends. |
September 9, 2011, 08:47 AM | #50 |
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Excellent additions, MLeake.
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