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Old December 18, 2009, 05:04 AM   #51
Powderman
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I understand. My apologies--I didn't even think of that.

Regarding subsonic ammunition--the threshold for subsonic ammo is right around 1100 fps. There are other factory offerings--my department uses Federal 147 grain HydraShok, in subsonic loads, for our suppressed MP5's.
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Old December 18, 2009, 10:54 AM   #52
David Hineline
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"its not really a suppressor unless you have subsonic ammunition's(1100 fps) i think"

Its around 800 FPS .The .45 ACP is the only factory ammo. that qualifies .


If you had actually every shot one rather than just read about it in some book you would not say that.
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Old December 18, 2009, 12:11 PM   #53
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Hinline is correct.....first and formost it quiets the muzzle gasses, regardless of the speed of the bullet.

there are 3 noise factors: 1 mechanical noise of the firearm, 2 the muzzle gasses, 3 the bullet flight noise.

of all of these the muzzle gasses are the loudest, and the main thing a suppressor is made to reduce(although some designs encorporate ported barrels to reduce the speed of the bullet, to control bullet noise as well.
the factory MP5SD is one example, but MP5's with "muzzle cans" do nothing for bullet velocity reduction.
All the special ops guys you see with cans on thier M4, are using regular supersonic ball ammo in them, but it protects thier hearing still...and bullet flight noise is a really odd thing in combat...its a vantriloquist act in action lol it never sounds to the target to be comming from the actual direction that it is( often making them shoot in all directions, and run at you thinking they are breaking contact( they are many stories of this from Viet Nam with the old Sionic suppressors used for night ambushes on M16A1's and M14's equipped with starlight scopes.

a suppressor serves the same exact role/job as the muffler on your car
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Old December 18, 2009, 07:02 PM   #54
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Its around 800 FPS .The .45 ACP is the only factory ammo. that qualifies .
Wrong twice in one sentence. The speed of sound varies from 1051 fps at 0 F to 1160 at 100 F. There is much more factory ammo available than 45 acp that is subsonic. What are they teaching in AZ anyway?

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Old December 19, 2009, 03:26 PM   #55
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NFA weapons & grief

New here...but not new to NFA, I own 8 NFA articles ranging from silencers, machine guns to short barreled semi-auto shotguns all duly registered. I have NEVER been given grief about what I own, heck I build the duty .223 SBRs for my county sheriff's deputies and my 01 FFL is the Sargent with the local PD and Captain of our local SWAT team.

I've even had the pleasure of being pulled over by a pair of LEOs outside my county and had my silenced pistol in a case next to me. I'm a CHL and had my paperwork, they looked, drooled, and wanted my phone number so that they could call me later to ask as to how they could get "cans" for their fun guns.

Funny how that works...As long as you are abiding by the law and not ignorant of it, folks will leave you alone...for the most part, at least they do in Tx.
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Old February 11, 2010, 04:08 PM   #56
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This thread is funny in that it is a reflection of our views here in the U.S. In most countries that allow guns, suppressors are available over the counter.

I don't know any country that allows guns that makes suppressors illegal except us.

I mean really, why do you want all that noise ? It's noisy enough with the suppressors. Sure a .45 is subsonic but have you ever fired a .45 pistol with a suppressor ? Still awfully loud (I have a H&K with a Gemtech Suppressor. It's really noisy.

However, I have a .45 cal rifle that is incredibly quiet with an integrally suppressed barrell.
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Old February 11, 2010, 07:31 PM   #57
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Canada allows firearms and silencers are illegal, pretty sure more then just the US and Canada.
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Old February 11, 2010, 08:04 PM   #58
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Sure a .45 is subsonic but have you ever fired a .45 pistol with a suppressor ? Still awfully loud (I have a H&K with a Gemtech Suppressor. It's really noisy.
No offense, but Gemtec .45ACP silencers are horrible compared to modern technology. I've heard .45 USPs with modern stuff that are marginally louder than .22lr auto-pistols with a silencer.
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Old February 11, 2010, 08:13 PM   #59
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Yeah, I guess you can say Canada allows guns. Not handguns though, that's for sure. Canada and the US worked hand in hand during the prohibition so it doesn't surprise me that they would have passed similar laws.

But, even Canada's Queen allows it in Britain.

Cheers,
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Old February 11, 2010, 08:23 PM   #60
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There's usually a quote button on theese forums. I can't find this one. In any case this is to PTK.

I can't speak to that but I wasn't really very clear with my post. I am actually referring to all the other sounds that go off when a 45 pistol is fired suppressed. The slide and barrel operating sounds I am speaking of. I guess I was trying to say that there is more to "silence" than the subsonic bullet.

Sorry for not being clear.
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Old February 11, 2010, 08:31 PM   #61
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Its around 800 FPS .The .45 ACP is the only factory ammo. that qualifies
.

As RAnb mentioned earlier, the speed of sound is the rate of travel of a sound wave through an elastic medium. In dry air at 20 °C (68 °F), the speed of sound is 1125 ft/s. Or about 768mph.

There are quite a few factory cartridges that qualify as "subsonic."
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Old February 11, 2010, 10:44 PM   #62
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Yeah, I guess you can say Canada allows guns. Not handguns though, that's for sure. Canada and the US worked hand in hand during the prohibition so it doesn't surprise me that they would have passed similar laws.
Canada allows handguns. Barrel must be over 105mm (~4.1 inches), but we allow handguns.
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Old February 12, 2010, 01:31 AM   #63
vwfool
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A friend of mine and I both got our first NFA items a month or two apart. He got a .22 suppressor, and I got a .223 suppressor. The only grief either of us has experienced was actually from our wives. And no, it wasn't over the price. My budy's wife is very, very innocent minded, but we still love her. She is one of those ones that after watching the news just says how she can't believe they can get away with making up those stories because nobody could do all those mean things to each other in "real" life ( like the war in Iraq). Anyhow his wife acted strange for a week or two until she finally broke down into tears and talked to him. She thought that because he had a suppressor he was going to kill her and both their kids in the middle of the night. My budy and I got a real good laugh out of it. I figured my wife would think it was funny too, until she told me she thought the exact same thing. Oh well, a few years and a few more NFA items down the road, we all have a good laugh about it all.
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Old February 12, 2010, 09:15 AM   #64
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The shop I picked up my little Walther yesterday had a customer in it that commented to me "why do people need THOSE type of guns". Pointing at the collecting of ARs, AKs and tactical shotguns.
I said, 50 bucks says you would not have said that if they all had wood stocks instead of black stocks.
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Old February 13, 2010, 06:06 AM   #65
kyso
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question

I have a question for those here with fairly extensive NFA/ATF/BATFE know-how.

I have a suppressor that was purchased legally in NC. Pretty soon I will be relocating to Minnesota and it looks like suppressors are illegal there. Where does that leave me? Am I going to be mandated to get rid of it?? It has become my favorite toy and I really really don't want to give it back to a C3 dealer

Appreciate your help in advance.

v/r

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Old February 13, 2010, 03:25 PM   #66
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The only reason he talked to me for the ten minutes was he liked the way I modified the ar-15 upper, I ended up doing the same setup for him a couple weeks later so he turned into a customer.
Sweet
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Old February 13, 2010, 03:53 PM   #67
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I have a suppressor that was purchased legally in NC. Pretty soon I will be relocating to Minnesota and it looks like suppressors are illegal there. Where does that leave me? Am I going to be mandated to get rid of it?? It has become my favorite toy and I really really don't want to give it back to a C3 dealer
You may store the suppressor with family/friend or place it into public storage in NC. If left with someone, it must be left in a container they cannot open (only you have key), you must notify ATF where it is stored and you will need to leave a copy of your paperwork with them.
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Old February 15, 2010, 11:01 PM   #68
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I can't believe all you people with all that "NFA" stuff. FOR SHAME!!! Makes me jelous!! Next month I am going to venture into the NFA relm with a SBR. This will be my first NFA gun but hopefully not the last. I have to say, I don't think people need this kind of stuff either. Thats what makes it all the more fun. How fun is it to buy gas for your car to get to work? How fun is it to buy grocieries? How fun is it to pay the electric bill? All necessities. How fun is it to watch the game on your new flat screen tv? How fun is it to surprise the kids with a trip to Chucky Cheese or some such place and watch them lose their minds? How fun is it to bring home that rifle or pistol or supressor or MG that you've been wanting? All unnecessary.

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Old February 16, 2010, 11:13 AM   #69
colostomyclown
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his location says Minnesota.



Last I checked, it was perfectly legal to keep a firearm in the house in Minnesota.
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Old February 16, 2010, 09:56 PM   #70
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As RAnb mentioned earlier, the speed of sound is the rate of travel of a sound wave through an elastic medium. In dry air at 20 °C (68 °F), the speed of sound is 1125 ft/s. Or about 768mph.
You're still leaving out what altitude you're measuring at...
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Old February 16, 2010, 10:10 PM   #71
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The speed of sound in air is not directly affected by altitude. Temperature alone is enough to determine the speed of sound very closely. For a little more accuracy, you can include humidity as well.

The speed of sound in air may decrease with an increase in altitude, but if it does, it's a side effect of the decreased temperature (if any), not the altitude.

The speed of sound at 50 °F in Denver is the same as the speed of sound at 50 °F in Malibu or Pensacola.
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Old February 21, 2010, 12:47 PM   #72
RAnb
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Last I checked, it was perfectly legal to keep a firearm in the house in Minnesota.
Most guns. It is a felony to merely possess some guns in MN. Minnesota is not on the short list of gun friendly states in the USA.

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Old February 21, 2010, 01:09 PM   #73
RAnb
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I don't know any country that allows guns that makes suppressors illegal except us.
At the federal level silencers are not illegal, just strictly controlled. In fact ATF approval to make or buy a silencer is practially a rubber stamp for anyone living in one of the 37 states that allow them. I have never heard of anyone being denied approval as long as the forms were filled out correctly.

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Old February 21, 2010, 01:29 PM   #74
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I've heard .45 USPs with modern stuff that are marginally louder than .22lr auto-pistols with a silencer.
PTK, make and model of that can?
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Old February 21, 2010, 07:05 PM   #75
PTK
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TiRant .45acp from AAC. Full size, not military shorty.


I am not exaggerating - we're talking HOLLYWOOD quiet for a .45acp. It makes my experience with the Evo45 seem absurdly loud.


Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=178
With a wet charge of 5cc’s of water, the sound signature drops to 125 dB.

That's six dB quieter than the Evo45. That's.... really quiet. 41dB reduction with 5cc water.
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