10,000rds Without a Malfunction (WWG/Colt AR)

B. Lahey · September 7, 2011, 12:54 PM

Last weekend I had an extremely excessive rangeday with my AR, and that put it over the 10k mark, malf-free. It's a Wild West Guns / Colt A4gery- 6920 coverted to A4 configuration with a bunch of Colt parts and a Sabre Defense 20" 1in7" .gov-profile barrel, put together and tested two years ago by Kenny's AR-monkeyboy (who also test-fired my malfunctioning Hakim for me; a brave fellow).

None of my kalashnikovs have ever come close to this sort of reliabilty, although they are generally hamstrung by poor quality steel-cased ammunition. I am glad to say that the WWG/Colt has never been besmirched by funky steel ammo, although it has eaten a vast variety of brass, whatever happened to be on sale at the time or seemed interesting. Everything from forty-something grain Remington varmint ammo (didn't shoot worth a darn, probably overspun by the 1in7", but at least it didn't explode in flight) to the finest Black Hills, Lapua, etc... (shoots worth several darns)

It was rarely cleaned; frequently going 600rds+ between even basic wipedowns of the guts. No magic lubes or fancified components, just CLP and Colt bits.

I am very happy with my rifle, and Colt, Ken, and WWG have my great appreciation for the magnificently reliable boomstick!

Scorch · September 7, 2011, 02:05 PM

You are dreaming. Wake up. ARs cannot fire more than 5 rounds without cleaning or they will jam and make your toenails get ingrown. If you feed your AR anything other than USGI ammo, it will become a solid block of carbon within 15 minutes. If a speck of lint lands on your AR, it will become permanently disabled, and qualify for Social Security.

Thanks for the wake-up call to all the AR bashers. Your experience closely mirrors mine, ARs are very reliable and accurate.

Bartholomew Roberts · September 7, 2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

It was rarely cleaned; frequently going 600rds+ between even basic wipedowns of the guts.

Well there is your problem... you should be sticking tiny pieces of balsa wood down the gas tube and scrubbing forcefully in order to keep it free of carbon. You know those rifles poop where they eat!

B. Lahey · September 8, 2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

you should be sticking tiny pieces of balsa wood down the gas tube and scrubbing forcefully in order to keep it free of carbon

Yes, I have obviously been doing it wrong.

warrior poet · September 8, 2011, 12:48 PM

Okay. Actual test I was part of: We fired 6,000 rounds through both a base M16A4 and a proposed change (sorry, can't say). While half the test group used one type, the other half used the other. Then, we switched. That's right, 12,000 rounds through both styles of M16. I had TWO malfunctions the entire time... ONE was caused by a bad magazine on the first day. The other, was MY fault. I did an 'overzealous' chamber check with 'cold-numbed' hands and ejected a round.
So to sum it up: I fired 11,998 of 12,000 rounds and both unfired rounds were NOT caused by the weapon. We sprayed the bolt and carrier down with squirt of CLP every 120 rounds, and cleaned the bolt, bore, and carrier every 600. The rifles were cleaned (to my standard) only once, at the end of the test.

B. Lahey · September 9, 2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

I fired 11,998 of 12,000 rounds and both unfired rounds were NOT caused by the weapon

And people wonder why some folks get rather picky about having only milspec or better components in their AR...

Could be that when you follow those specifications, you end up with a rifle that just won't quit.

Palmetto-Pride · January 29, 2012, 03:33 PM

What I find most amazing about this thread is that it only had 5 post up until now. I have no doubt that the AR is a great weapon because I own 4 and don't have any problems when using the correct ammo.

Kimbertron · January 29, 2012, 06:27 PM

Is that Wild West Guns in anchorage?

chadio · January 29, 2012, 06:40 PM

Oooohh, you better buy a lottery ticket. Am told that only forward piston AR's will run. They say the DI version locks up after a few rounds & then you have to completely dismantle / clean the whole works.

bigghoss · January 29, 2012, 06:47 PM

Oh but SURELY a $700 oly/bushmaster/dpms/ect AR15 could easily do that because they're just as good!

This is why I recommend people spend the extra few hundred bucks if they want anything more than a range toy.

B. Lahey · January 29, 2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Is that Wild West Guns in anchorage?

Indeed. Kenny used to post here constantly, but has been MIA. I hope he didn't get trampled by a moose or something.

Kimbertron · January 29, 2012, 11:07 PM

I have the trigger happy kit for my marlin from them. Ordered it online but about a year ago when i was down in anchorage I stopped in, They had some very impressive guns in there "fine guns" room i believe it was called.

5RWill · January 30, 2012, 12:11 AM

Wish i had a couple of days to do that with my BCM that would be awesome. Great job and very nice rifle. As stated and obviously proved the systems are extremely reliable more so than most would admit. All without a short stroke piston system too

Lloyd Smale · January 30, 2012, 06:41 AM

I see two kinds of people complain about ar reliability. First is those who dont know how to take care of them or load ammo for them and second is guys that are doing nothing but passing on info they got from some so called expert on the internet.

Scharfschuetzer · February 1, 2012, 05:59 PM

I have a Colt HBAR that is now 26 years old. Whilie it isn't alwys my primary match rifle, I don't recall it ever jamming, at least I've never had to shoot an alabai string with it at matches that I can remember. I haven't kept track of the rounds fired through it because I've always had the intention of changing out its factory chrome lined heavy barrel, but alas, I never seem to get around to it.

I do clean it thoroughly after each use though and I always find myself wishing that it had a gas piston instead of the direct gas impingement system. I'm amazed at the longevity of the chrome lined barrel. My other match rifles burn out their throats at about four to five thousand rounds and need replacing. I'm quite sure that I have fired many more rounds through it than that.

As for brass, I use Lake City brass as I get that for free and it lasts for many reloads. The AR15/M16/M4 series of rifles seem to be pretty easy on brass compared to other auto loaders like M-14 or German G-3.

Mrgunsngear · February 1, 2012, 08:22 PM

First off, let me come out----I love my AKs! That said every AR I've ever owned (currently own 4) has been extremely reliable as long as they are properly cleaned/lubricated. Most who post about ARs that are unreliable are referring to some sort of torture test; not exactly applicable for the average AR owner. I have two ARs that have never had a malfunction through thousands of rounds of cheapo Bear ammo so far and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make it to the 10k mark without a hiccup.

Thanks for the field report.

cookie5 · February 3, 2012, 10:57 PM

All rifles have their faults but I have to say AR rifles are great!!! Read this link on the filthy 14 most interesting http://www.slip2000.com/art-swat2.html

B. Lahey · February 6, 2012, 06:21 PM

I have not been able to shoot as often as I would like this winter, but I've shot as much as possible and I took the A4gery out again today. Perfect as usual. Tried some Mk318 SOST and some Federal Fusion 62gr with good results.

Now 11,000rds without a malfunction.

kd7sgm · February 6, 2012, 09:29 PM

[QUOTE]m amazed at the longevity of the chrome lined barrel/QUOTE]
I am in the first stages of building an AR actually awaiting parts and was wondering how important the chrome lined barrel is ? I was told by a person who is an AR nut that it is not that important and actually a waste of money.

4runnerman · February 6, 2012, 09:50 PM

Hey,,Stop it all of you. I have been fighting this AR buying bug for 3 years now. You people are not making it easy here

. Sounds like they are some solid performing rifles.

PH/CIB · February 6, 2012, 10:06 PM

I have five 308 rifle platforms,,,AR10T, FAL, M1A, PTR91 and VeprAK,,,I have had jams with all of them,,,I have five 556 rifle platforms,,,DIAR, piston AR, AK, and have had jams with most of them,,,I have five 762x39 rifle platforms,,,SKSD,,SKSM,,VEPR,,,and two Arsenal milled receiver,,,have managed to have jams with them,,,I have Glocks and Sigs and HK's and Walther pistols,, and other brands,have had jams with most of them....and two or three squib loads

Anything manmade and man operated and man maintained,,,firearms,,ammo,,magazines,,,power tools,,cars,,whatever will at some time fail,,,however the AR is more reliable than it's reputation.

It is always best to buy the best quality you can afford.

So far the only thing I have had 100% reliability with is hand grenades!

B. Lahey · February 6, 2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

I am in the first stages of building an AR actually awaiting parts and was wondering how important the chrome lined barrel is ? I was told by a person who is an AR nut that it is not that important and actually a waste of money.

I only went chrome because the project concept was to have as close as possible to an off the rack A4 without the funflipper. When I toast this barrel I may or may not stay milspec, but it certainly seems durable.

I get it crazy hot several times every range outing, and at 11k rounds it shows no sign of group loosening. I can still put 10rds of fancy OTM into 2moa, with irons, same as the first trip to the range. And that's really about the limit of my skills, so I'm very happy.

cajun47 · February 7, 2012, 07:04 PM

"10,000rds Without a Malfunction (WWG/Colt AR)"

sure pal. great "feel good" topic. ant the internets great, the wildest dreams can come true. its magical.

Coyote_Buster700 · February 7, 2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:

sure pal. great "feel good" topic. ant the internets great, the wildest dreams can come true. its magical.

You a Mini-14 guy? lol

B. Lahey · February 8, 2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

"10,000rds Without a Malfunction (WWG/Colt AR)"

sure pal. great "feel good" topic. ant the internets great, the wildest dreams can come true. its magical.

It's 11,000rds now. Try to keep up.

No magic, unfortunately. If I was all magical and stuff, all my rifles would be this reliable, and they most certainly are not.

September 7, 2011, 12:54 PM	#1
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	10,000rds Without a Malfunction (WWG/Colt AR) Last weekend I had an extremely excessive rangeday with my AR, and that put it over the 10k mark, malf-free. It's a Wild West Guns / Colt A4gery- 6920 coverted to A4 configuration with a bunch of Colt parts and a Sabre Defense 20" 1in7" .gov-profile barrel, put together and tested two years ago by Kenny's AR-monkeyboy (who also test-fired my malfunctioning Hakim for me; a brave fellow). None of my kalashnikovs have ever come close to this sort of reliabilty, although they are generally hamstrung by poor quality steel-cased ammunition. I am glad to say that the WWG/Colt has never been besmirched by funky steel ammo, although it has eaten a vast variety of brass, whatever happened to be on sale at the time or seemed interesting. Everything from forty-something grain Remington varmint ammo (didn't shoot worth a darn, probably overspun by the 1in7", but at least it didn't explode in flight) to the finest Black Hills, Lapua, etc... (shoots worth several darns) It was rarely cleaned; frequently going 600rds+ between even basic wipedowns of the guts. No magic lubes or fancified components, just CLP and Colt bits. I am very happy with my rifle, and Colt, Ken, and WWG have my great appreciation for the magnificently reliable boomstick! __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

September 7, 2011, 02:05 PM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	You are dreaming. Wake up. ARs cannot fire more than 5 rounds without cleaning or they will jam and make your toenails get ingrown. If you feed your AR anything other than USGI ammo, it will become a solid block of carbon within 15 minutes. If a speck of lint lands on your AR, it will become permanently disabled, and qualify for Social Security. Thanks for the wake-up call to all the AR bashers. Your experience closely mirrors mine, ARs are very reliable and accurate. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 8, 2011, 12:48 PM	#5
warrior poet Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: Whereever Uncle Sam wants to put me Posts: 415	Okay. Actual test I was part of: We fired 6,000 rounds through both a base M16A4 and a proposed change (sorry, can't say). While half the test group used one type, the other half used the other. Then, we switched. That's right, 12,000 rounds through both styles of M16. I had TWO malfunctions the entire time... ONE was caused by a bad magazine on the first day. The other, was MY fault. I did an 'overzealous' chamber check with 'cold-numbed' hands and ejected a round. So to sum it up: I fired 11,998 of 12,000 rounds and both unfired rounds were NOT caused by the weapon. We sprayed the bolt and carrier down with squirt of CLP every 120 rounds, and cleaned the bolt, bore, and carrier every 600. The rifles were cleaned (to my standard) only once, at the end of the test. __________________ Trigger control: The skillful manipulation of the trigger, which causes the weapon to fire, while maintaining sight alignment and sight picture.

January 29, 2012, 03:33 PM	#7
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	What I find most amazing about this thread is that it only had 5 post up until now. I have no doubt that the AR is a great weapon because I own 4 and don't have any problems when using the correct ammo. __________________ “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” -Margaret Thatcher-

January 29, 2012, 06:40 PM	#9
chadio Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2011 Posts: 931	Oooohh, you better buy a lottery ticket. Am told that only forward piston AR's will run. They say the DI version locks up after a few rounds & then you have to completely dismantle / clean the whole works. __________________ Ex - Navy, Persian Gulf Veteran. Loved shooting the M14, 1911, M60, M2

January 29, 2012, 06:27 PM	#8
Kimbertron Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2011 Location: Middle of nowhere Posts: 287	Is that Wild West Guns in anchorage?

January 29, 2012, 06:47 PM	#10
bigghoss Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2006 Location: Pueblo, Colorado Posts: 2,664	Oh but SURELY a $700 oly/bushmaster/dpms/ect AR15 could easily do that because they're just as good! This is why I recommend people spend the extra few hundred bucks if they want anything more than a range toy. __________________ I don't collect guns, I accumulate them.

January 29, 2012, 11:07 PM	#12
Kimbertron Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2011 Location: Middle of nowhere Posts: 287	I have the trigger happy kit for my marlin from them. Ordered it online but about a year ago when i was down in anchorage I stopped in, They had some very impressive guns in there "fine guns" room i believe it was called. __________________ "Having your head on a swivel does no good if it's simultaneously up your nether regions." -Pax

January 30, 2012, 12:11 AM	#13
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	Wish i had a couple of days to do that with my BCM that would be awesome. Great job and very nice rifle. As stated and obviously proved the systems are extremely reliable more so than most would admit. All without a short stroke piston system too __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me."

January 30, 2012, 06:41 AM	#14
Lloyd Smale Junior member Join Date: February 11, 2005 Posts: 822	I see two kinds of people complain about ar reliability. First is those who dont know how to take care of them or load ammo for them and second is guys that are doing nothing but passing on info they got from some so called expert on the internet.

February 1, 2012, 05:59 PM	#15
Scharfschuetzer Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2012 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 293	I have a Colt HBAR that is now 26 years old. Whilie it isn't alwys my primary match rifle, I don't recall it ever jamming, at least I've never had to shoot an alabai string with it at matches that I can remember. I haven't kept track of the rounds fired through it because I've always had the intention of changing out its factory chrome lined heavy barrel, but alas, I never seem to get around to it. I do clean it thoroughly after each use though and I always find myself wishing that it had a gas piston instead of the direct gas impingement system. I'm amazed at the longevity of the chrome lined barrel. My other match rifles burn out their throats at about four to five thousand rounds and need replacing. I'm quite sure that I have fired many more rounds through it than that. As for brass, I use Lake City brass as I get that for free and it lasts for many reloads. The AR15/M16/M4 series of rifles seem to be pretty easy on brass compared to other auto loaders like M-14 or German G-3. __________________ Scharfschuetzer US Army Distinguished Rifleman Washington State Distinguished Rifleman NRA Police Distinguished Expert Last edited by Scharfschuetzer; February 1, 2012 at 06:06 PM.

February 1, 2012, 08:22 PM	#16
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	First off, let me come out----I love my AKs! That said every AR I've ever owned (currently own 4) has been extremely reliable as long as they are properly cleaned/lubricated. Most who post about ARs that are unreliable are referring to some sort of torture test; not exactly applicable for the average AR owner. I have two ARs that have never had a malfunction through thousands of rounds of cheapo Bear ammo so far and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make it to the 10k mark without a hiccup. Thanks for the field report. __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

February 3, 2012, 10:57 PM	#17
cookie5 Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2011 Posts: 217	All rifles have their faults but I have to say AR rifles are great!!! Read this link on the filthy 14 most interesting http://www.slip2000.com/art-swat2.html Last edited by cookie5; February 3, 2012 at 11:03 PM.

February 6, 2012, 06:21 PM	#18
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	Update I have not been able to shoot as often as I would like this winter, but I've shot as much as possible and I took the A4gery out again today. Perfect as usual. Tried some Mk318 SOST and some Federal Fusion 62gr with good results. Now 11,000rds without a malfunction. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

February 6, 2012, 09:29 PM	#19
kd7sgm Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 223	[QUOTE]m amazed at the longevity of the chrome lined barrel/QUOTE] I am in the first stages of building an AR actually awaiting parts and was wondering how important the chrome lined barrel is ? I was told by a person who is an AR nut that it is not that important and actually a waste of money. __________________ I would like either less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it.

February 6, 2012, 09:50 PM	#20
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Hey,,Stop it all of you. I have been fighting this AR buying bug for 3 years now. You people are not making it easy here. Sounds like they are some solid performing rifles. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

February 6, 2012, 10:06 PM	#21
PH/CIB Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 281	I have five 308 rifle platforms,,,AR10T, FAL, M1A, PTR91 and VeprAK,,,I have had jams with all of them,,,I have five 556 rifle platforms,,,DIAR, piston AR, AK, and have had jams with most of them,,,I have five 762x39 rifle platforms,,,SKSD,,SKSM,,VEPR,,,and two Arsenal milled receiver,,,have managed to have jams with them,,,I have Glocks and Sigs and HK's and Walther pistols,, and other brands,have had jams with most of them....and two or three squib loads Anything manmade and man operated and man maintained,,,firearms,,ammo,,magazines,,,power tools,,cars,,whatever will at some time fail,,,however the AR is more reliable than it's reputation. It is always best to buy the best quality you can afford. So far the only thing I have had 100% reliability with is hand grenades! __________________ Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net

February 7, 2012, 07:04 PM	#23
cajun47 Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: swamp people Posts: 539	"10,000rds Without a Malfunction (WWG/Colt AR)" sure pal. great "feel good" topic. ant the internets great, the wildest dreams can come true. its magical.