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April 19, 2013, 10:35 AM | #51 |
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Just to clarify the sound levels involved:
An unsuppressed 16" .223 would be around 160 decibels. Suppressed with a high quality suppressor that same .223 is about 130 decibels. According to OSHA, that is about the same sound level as being 100m from a jet during takeoff. At a sound level of 101 decibels (suppressor and earplugs), you are still 16 decibels above the threshold OSHA considers safe for exposure to intermittent sounds 8 hours a day. |
April 19, 2013, 10:38 AM | #52 | |||
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I do not believe you understand the statements to which you respond. That earplugs exist categorically cannot bear on the legitimacy of the use to which a suppressor is put. This is not a subjective observation. This is not something you may find legitimate or not. A use, legitimate on its face, has been described. Quote:
You have not addressed the facially legitimate uses for suppressors. You indicated that you would respond to Spats' inquiry once you received an answer regarding the nuclear briefcase. You have received that answer You are now free to respond to the pending question: Why do suppressors "need" to stay on the NFA list?
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April 19, 2013, 10:38 AM | #53 |
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I'd venture that almost all hunters would use suppressors if they were legal.
Hunters go to great lengths to reduce the ability of wildlife to detect them (see, smell, or hear) - we buy camo so we can't be seen and scent protection to prevent being smelled. You stay as quiet as you can while walking through the woods. There is a huge difference is how long it takes the woods to return to "normal" if I shoot my bow, .22, or 25-06. Doesn't matter that suppressors aren't really silent - I'm sure I still stink some when wearing scent protection. Hunters will buy anything that gives them even the perception of an "edge". |
April 19, 2013, 10:41 AM | #54 |
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I would add one more use for suppressors: training. While I am not a certified trainer (by any stretch of the imagination), I could easily see that suppressed rifles would be useful in training young shooters. The reduced noise would allow them to develop trigger control without developing the flinch that comes from the much louder (unsurpressed) bang.
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April 19, 2013, 10:44 AM | #55 | |
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April 19, 2013, 10:45 AM | #56 | ||
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April 19, 2013, 10:46 AM | #57 | |
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It's just like the "pffft" in the "movies". Mix a .223 with subsonic ammo? |
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April 19, 2013, 10:46 AM | #58 |
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Kochman, suppressors may not be necessary for the shooter, due to plugs and muffs, but they certainly might be appreciated by the neighbors of the shooter.
Meanwhile, you still ignore my question about why you continually place the onus on citizens, rather than on the government. Why is that? |
April 19, 2013, 10:47 AM | #59 |
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The government has established why it is not worth the risk/benefit equation to allow things that really have very few legit uses.
Therefore, to be an exception... |
April 19, 2013, 10:48 AM | #60 | |
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Should air rifles be NFA items?
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April 19, 2013, 10:49 AM | #61 |
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How many air rifles have been successfully used to kill people?
Mossad, for example, used .22 as it's assassination round for some time... suppressed even sometimes! |
April 19, 2013, 10:50 AM | #62 |
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So what are the legit uses for pet rocks? Weird Al CDs? Skateboards?
You routinely side with government making decisions for us citizens as to which of our wants are legitimate, Kochman. You should see if Bloomberg is hiring; he would love you. |
April 19, 2013, 10:51 AM | #63 |
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Using suppressors to kill people is a non-argument.
They are commonplace in places like New Zealand and are not used to "kill people" in any appreciable numbers. Come on, Man!
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April 19, 2013, 10:51 AM | #64 |
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Kochman, air rifles used to be available in .455 caliber, and were a preferred weapon of poachers.
Ask a silly question... |
April 19, 2013, 10:52 AM | #65 |
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What are the illegit uses of those items?
Assassination? Poaching? At MLeake... How many people generally are killed by air rifles in a year? Answer the question. |
April 19, 2013, 10:52 AM | #66 | |
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Lethality cannot be the standard, since unsuppressed weapons account for many more deaths than suppressed ones.
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April 19, 2013, 10:53 AM | #67 |
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You guys... you're dissembling and splitting unnecessary hairs here... if this can't be a rational discussion...
Ciao |
April 19, 2013, 10:54 AM | #68 |
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Kochman, how many people (outside war zones where SOF operate) are killed by suppressed weapons? Answer the question.
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April 19, 2013, 10:55 AM | #69 |
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We are dissembling... Now that is rich.
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April 19, 2013, 10:56 AM | #70 | |
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132db - unsuppressed .22LR (as quiet as a suppressed .223) 91db - suppressed .22LR with top notch suppressor (41db reduction - still 6db over OSHA threshold of 85db) 68db - unsuppressed subsonic .22lr (CCI Quiet 2 - about as quiet as a loud conversation/car road noise) Subsonic does nothing to make the suppressor quieter, it just reduces bullet flight noise (the tiny supersonic wave that accompanies the bullet). If you shoot subsonic out of a normal rifle, it will be quieter. .223 subsonic ammo is just a bad idea. You've basically reduced yourself to a .22 Long and you are eventually going to have a baffle strike that trashes your suppressor. Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; April 19, 2013 at 11:07 AM. |
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April 19, 2013, 10:57 AM | #71 | |
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That's like asking how many people are killed by Walther PPKs made in 1934. |
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April 19, 2013, 10:58 AM | #72 | |
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April 19, 2013, 10:59 AM | #73 |
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From 1995 to 2005 136 people were convicted of possession of a suppressor. During that same period of time, two murders were committed that involved suppressed weapons.
http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v08n2/44.clark/clark.pdf |
April 19, 2013, 10:59 AM | #74 |
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Instead of getting into the nuclear briefcase apples and oranges, lets do Golden Noble vs Gingergold apples
Golden Noble apples are cooking apples. Gingergold are both cooking and out of hand apples. Earplugs are decibel reducers. Electronic muffs are high decibel reducers, and low decibel magnifiers. Why does one need one over the other? If no one needs to only reduce decibels, we should ban the ear plugs and force everyone to use electronic muffs. |
April 19, 2013, 11:00 AM | #75 | |
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