September 22, 2011, 03:39 PM | #26 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Actually, #4 might well out penetrate a 22 hornet. The hornet may be loaded with fragile varmint bullets. If so, a solid chunk of lead would easily out penetrate it. Especially at close range, varmint bullets might explode on impact and not penetrate more than a few inches.
Neither one is a particularly good choice for deer, except under certain circumstances. Buckshot, at close range. 22 Hornet, with the right bullet, placed in the right spot. |
September 22, 2011, 04:06 PM | #27 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
September 22, 2011, 04:25 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Posts: 7,167
|
That 87 grn varmint bullet you are talking about is almost twice the weight of the puny little 45 grn Hornet bullet. You are still mixing apples and oranges.
|
September 22, 2011, 05:26 PM | #29 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
*Eight* whole deer with one bullet?! I can't compare to that. Especially a bullet that's near on double the weight of what would be used in a hornet. I mean, I've killed HUNDREDS of woodchucks with actual varmint bullets like what WOULD be used in the hornet, at ranges from 5 feet to near 400 yards, and a few dozen deer of my own, along with countless killed by friends and relatives, with weapons from archery to 20ga, 16ga, 12ga, 10ga shotguns, rifles and muzzleloaders... but what would I know about what it takes to penetrate or kill one? But, I apologize for having the nerve to, not even disagree, but merely point out that certain bullets under certain circumstances, might not behave exactly as your experience indicates. |
|
September 22, 2011, 05:58 PM | #30 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
September 22, 2011, 06:09 PM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
September 22, 2011, 06:13 PM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
September 22, 2011, 06:57 PM | #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Posts: 7,167
|
Quote:
No matter how you slice it, a .22 Hornet is still a VERY poor choice for deer. |
|
September 22, 2011, 07:42 PM | #34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
What do you mean by "shock wave"? Do you mean "hydrostatic shock"? Is there such a thing? Exactly how much energy must remain to create a shock wave sufficient to get a clean kill? Did you know that there are many gun people who say that there is no such thing and that death is brought about by blood loss? How many deer have you shot with a .22 Hornet to give you the confidence to state your opinion as facts? |
|
September 22, 2011, 08:00 PM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Posts: 7,167
|
Quote:
|
|
September 22, 2011, 08:22 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 3, 2011
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 959
|
I've killed hundreds of deer, most at less than 30 yards. I've never used a round lighter than a .357 mag using a good penetrating bullet. Is .22 Hornet to light for deer? You bet. Is it possible to kill a deer with a .22 Hornet? Sure. I know a couple of local jerks who regularly spotlight deer with a .22 rf. Just because it will kill does not make it the right caliber for the job. I once saw an African kill an Elephant with a spear, it took 3 days to die but it was dead.
|
September 22, 2011, 08:23 PM | #37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,808
|
Quote:
I wouldn't use one, because I have better choices, but know many who do with no problems. |
|
September 22, 2011, 08:29 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,551
|
""No but I'm wondering at what range did you get that kind of penetration. I'm guessing it was relatively short range. Couple that with the fact that you have many .24 pellets doing damage gives you a dead deer. On the other hand, that .22 Hornet shot at 100 yds won't penetrate as deep and won't do the required shock damage necessary for a consistently clean kill."" from first page--
22 Hornet is barely a coyote bullet at 100 yds let alone a deer. At 20 yds or less, if an ememgency, by an experience shooter. |
September 22, 2011, 11:47 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,308
|
hornet
I knew two ol'boys who were hoghunters for the gov't. Their rifles of choice were the Savage 34 in .22 Hornet! They also routinely deer hunted w/ their Hornets. The only shot they took, hogs and deer, was at the base of the ear.
They shot either 45 gr SP or a reload "heavy for caliber" and I suspect it was 50 or 52 gr SP. Absolutely would not use any HP. Eventually, the gov't got more involved and issued them rifles, 'o6's which they despised, to heavy and loud they said. Would I use a Hornet on deer given any other (larger ) choice, no way! |
September 23, 2011, 12:20 AM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 20, 2009
Posts: 903
|
...so there's this old boar black bear that's been nosing through my trash behind the garage, and I've got this 17HMR...
Sorry. I don't mean to be a troll. I just couldn't resist. |
September 23, 2011, 12:42 AM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
Hodgdons lists a 55 grain load that does 2652 fps. I have intentionally loaded the .223 down to just above that level, with 55 grain bullets, to keep them from blowing up on deer. Killed them just fine out past 150 yards, got full penetration and made the heart look like this.
How dead do you need to make them? I get mildly annoyed when people who haven't actually used something, in the field, suggest that it should be outlawed simply because it doesn't fit their preconceived notions- or they assume basic rifle marksmanship is beyond the abilities of anyone willing to apply themselves.
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. |
September 23, 2011, 02:54 AM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 31, 2011
Location: Southeast, USA
Posts: 350
|
It is illegal to hunt Deer with 22 cal in my State but if it were I would not do so.
__________________
Good character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. |
September 23, 2011, 03:34 AM | #43 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 21, 2010
Location: az
Posts: 1,332
|
Quote:
I guarantee you I could kill deer cleanly with a 22 hornet. I choose not to because with bigger calibers I don't have to be so picky, and in AZ you can kill one deer a year, and it has to be a buck, and you get one week to hunt them, and our deer herd is crappy... but if I lived in the east or midwest and could kill 400 deer a year within 100 yards all day long from bait then by God I would have to mix it up a bit. Sometimes I'd bring the 45-70, sometimes proly the 22 hornet. I'd take a 22 hornet all day long at 30 yards over a 357 handgun, I'll tell you that much.
__________________
"When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy |
|
September 23, 2011, 06:24 AM | #44 |
Member
Join Date: January 23, 2011
Location: ky
Posts: 33
|
Seems to me with Mosin nagants seeling for around $100, that my be a better option if this is a budget concern.
__________________
The field dog must follow his nose, for if he follows his tail he won’t go far |
September 23, 2011, 08:37 AM | #45 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
"Preconceived notions", thanks Sarge. |
|
September 23, 2011, 08:44 AM | #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
September 23, 2011, 08:56 AM | #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
September 23, 2011, 09:23 AM | #48 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Posts: 7,167
|
This thread is starting to remind me of why it isn't smart to wrestle with a pig. You'll just get muddy and the pig will probably enjoy it.
|
September 23, 2011, 10:33 AM | #49 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
|
Quote:
|
|
September 23, 2011, 10:37 AM | #50 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
Quote:
The guy who recovered it (for meat) felt a bump on the offside shoulder, slit the skin there with his pocketknife and handed me a perfectly-expanded HST. It didn't look like the ad photo bullets; there was considerable gristle and bone fragments ground into the front of it. I've shot or seen a dozen deer shot with various .357 loads that didn't do this well. It sure sold me on the 40/165/HST as a carry load. Is the .40 S&W the 'Everyman Deer Cartridge'? Probably not. It is still basically a 38-40 Rimless Short and the 38-40, with far less efficient bullets than we have today, fed a lot of folks when it was popular. So did the .22 LR, which nearly made deer extinct here in MO during the Great Depression. The better you shoot, the less power you need* The above refers to the clinical killing of an animal, period. * The late Stephen Camp, a prince of a fellow and respected member here, killed at least four deer with the 9mm.
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. Last edited by Sarge; September 23, 2011 at 11:23 AM. Reason: yo gramma |
|
|
|