Chrono Results, 45LC, Win296

Doctari · August 14, 2001, 07:41 PM

Howdy folks,

Thought I'd post some follow up on my heavy loads for 45LC thread from a while back. I have a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk with 7.5" BBl.

CAUTION:: THE FOLLOWING LOAD INFORMATION MAY NOT BE SAFE IN YOUR FIREARM. THESE ARE EXTREMELY HEAVY LOADINGS FOR THE 45 LONG COLT. DO NOT USE THEM IN ANY OLDER OR REPLICA GUNS. USE ONLY IN RUGER OR TC CONTENDERS. USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK!! ::CAUTION

(How's that Johnny?)

Win New Brass
CCI 350 Primer
Hornady 250gr XTP
WIN 296 Powder
Rested at 25 yards
COL 1.605"

Grains Velocity Group Size
24.5 1395fps 2.70"
25.0 1395 2.35"
25.5 1426 2.20"
26.0 1415 1.75"
26.5 1423 2.10"
27.0 1435 1.75"
27.5 1481 1.90"

Man, the recoil is not for the timid of heart

So what do people think? Am I flirting with disaster here? I was expecting velocity in the 1300-1400fps range. So my results seem a little high, but i wasn't getting high pressure signs on the brass that I could find. I would probably choose the 26grain load as it offered good accuracy with velocity around 1400fps.

Anyone have a suggestion for a powder charge weight for 300 grain Hornady XTP's?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Redneck2 · August 14, 2001, 08:03 PM

Don't know if you've seen it, but on sixgunner.com they have an article "Dissolving the Myth". Has tons of info on the 45 LC and IIRC it answers your questions. It's of particular interest 'cause I have a Ruger just like yours. Ain't they fun????

Robert the41MagFan · August 14, 2001, 08:25 PM

High pressure 45 LC loads in modern guns have been well documented. Nothing new!

And Jacketed ammunitions generates much higher pressure levels than those of lead. Which means that the upper end of the load data posted goes beyond the 32000 CUP prescribed by ALL experts in this field.

Robert

Spectre · August 14, 2001, 09:54 PM

Looks like you hit diminishing returns after this:

26.0 1415 1.75"

WESHOOT2 · August 15, 2001, 06:10 AM

Who wants to read about my blowed-up guns? And I certainly don't want to read about yours!

Suggest new Starline case, CCI350 or Federal 155, Redding Profile Crimp die using heavy crimp.
W296 is correct powder, but charge weight is based on START LOW WORK UP SLOW.

Got it?

Are you SURE?

Good. Try 19.0g and WORK UP SLOW (.2g increments)!!!!! Do NOT try this load in your piece-of-crap XYZ; it's meant for Colt Anaconda, Dan Wesson, Ruger, TC, Freedom Arms, and the Taurus 454 Casull Raging Bull.

Don't fool around, pay close attention to pressure signs, and USE A CHRONOGRAPH.

My 5.5" 45 Colt Redhawk launches the 300g XTP-HP (a perfect deer bullet) at an average 1309fps, with more available (but no need!).
Your results may vary. My lawyer can kick your lawyer's ass, so don't complain to me.

Please please please all you novice loaders read these warnings carefully. Guns can break, folks can get hurt. This "Heavy 45 Colt Loads" subject is out there in danger land, and if you're not sure STOP ......ASK ....... and be safe.

JohnK · August 15, 2001, 11:45 AM

Doctari those figured look about right, certainly in the range of what I do with my Blackhawk so I don't think you're flirting with disaster.

Weshoot2's suggestion of a starting load for 300gr loads is a good one. To quote a famous sixgunner "each sixgun is a law unto it's self". What works in my or someone elses Blackhawk may not be safe in yours. Using 310gr LBT bullets I've had to go substantially above Weshoots starting suggestion and still don't get to 1,300 fps, cases also still fall out of the cylinders too. But you should still start low, use a chronograph and work up slowly. Better safe than sorry.

JohnK · August 15, 2001, 11:48 AM

Weshoot2 "Good. Try 19.0g and WORK UP SLOW (.2g increments)!!!!! Do NOT try this load in your piece-of-crap XYZ; it's meant for Colt Anaconda, Dan Wesson, Ruger, TC, Freedom Arms, and the Taurus 454 Casull Raging Bull. "

Do you not think that the 6 shot 45 Colt Taurus is able to handle the same loads as the Blackhawk/Anaconda etc? I have not seen the 45 Colt Taurus, but the 44 Mag is a massive sixgun, I'd think the 45 Colt version could handle what a Blackhawk can.

Robert the41MagFan · August 15, 2001, 12:30 PM

Taurus is a company that is very inconsistent in the quality control department. Chamber diameter, tolerances and consistency is critical for these types of loads. So results may vary from gun to gun.

Robert

Steve Smith · August 15, 2001, 12:55 PM

Doctari, read everything here: http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/Default.htm

I don't think you were too far over, but I'd use the 26.0 grain load IMHO.

Desert Dog · August 15, 2001, 01:37 PM

I think you are unneccessarily straining your weapon. My favorite and consistent shooting load for my .45 Blackhawk is 25.0 gr. of H-110 behind a hardcast 250 gr. RNFP. This is my "high-power plinker" load that I have used to get used to the stout recoil this load provides. In my testing with a chronograph, over a variety of climatic conditions, yields the 1300 to 1400 FPS range. Also, it seems, with the batches I use that W296 and H-110 are very similar in velocity if you add 1 gr. to the H-110 load i.e., 20 gr. W296 = 21 gr. H-110.

I personally would not go over 26 gr. of W296 in .45 Colt regardless of bullet weight...

YMMV,

WESHOOT2 · August 16, 2001, 06:01 AM

ONLY the guns specified.

"Cause [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] blows up."

Clark · August 21, 2001, 04:42 AM

I have an sw model 29 [44 mag] that wieghs about 40 ounces and when 240 gr bullets propelled by 24 gr H110 leave at 1450 fps, the kick is just right.

I can see at the real guns article on loading for the 45C Ruger Bisley that the same recoil was possible at lower pressures:
http://www.realguns.com/archives/006.htm

Desert Dog · August 21, 2001, 04:04 PM

I reiterate,

ONLY FOR RUGER BLACKHAWKS AND REDHAWKS, OR CUSTOM 5 SHOOTERS. (Freedom Arms, Linebaugh, etc...)

Maybe Dan Wessons, or large frame Colts, but I am not sure...

CAREFUL!!!!!

Johnny Guest · August 21, 2001, 05:17 PM

Nicely done, sir, and thanks for your cautions.

And thanks everyone else. Nothing wrong with some experimentation.

The .45 Colt is one of my all time favorites, and it will take an amazing amount of hot-rodding, in proper firearms, and with all due caution, as y'all all have already indicated.

I don't currently have one of the "massive" handguns mentioned, so my heavy load experimentation with .45C is pretty much in days past. A bit of creeping arthritis also dictates that I exercise restraint, because I'm really not into pain. My favorite load for my Mountain Gun is within published loads. Well, I DO have one pet load, with H. Universal that's a bit over the top . . .

Best to all
Johnny

high_caliber · August 21, 2001, 07:02 PM

I just got the Redhawk and a Bisley Blackhawk; both with 5.5" barrels. Where can I start with 296 and hard cast 230 gr. roundnose or 200 gr. SWC?

WESHOOT2 · August 22, 2001, 06:46 AM

No.

Use extreme-quality bullets only for your 'heavy' loads; the cheapies will vaporize into clouds of lead dust.

Both Beartooth Bullets and Cast Performance have plenty of info and linkage on their sites; suggest starting there.

high_caliber · August 22, 2001, 08:39 AM

WESHOOT2,
Thanks for the pointers.

JohnK · August 22, 2001, 11:26 AM

I gotta go with Weshoot on this one, don't try to use 230gr LRN or 200gr LSWC under heavy loads of 296/110. Those bullets are designed for the 45 ACP not heavy 45 Colt loads.

In the past I tried loading some "45 Swift" loads using the 200gr bullets. They were so inaccurate I was lucky to hit the paper at all much less get anything that remotely looked like a group. Heavy 45 Colt loads using cast bullets are best made up with heavy bullets, at least 255gr. The big 45 Colt loads really work well with 300+ gr bullets around 1,200 fps.

August 14, 2001, 07:41 PM	#1
Doctari Member Join Date: March 27, 1999 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 86	Chrono Results, 45LC, Win296 Howdy folks, Thought I'd post some follow up on my heavy loads for 45LC thread from a while back. I have a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk with 7.5" BBl. CAUTION:: THE FOLLOWING LOAD INFORMATION MAY NOT BE SAFE IN YOUR FIREARM. THESE ARE EXTREMELY HEAVY LOADINGS FOR THE 45 LONG COLT. DO NOT USE THEM IN ANY OLDER OR REPLICA GUNS. USE ONLY IN RUGER OR TC CONTENDERS. USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK!! ::CAUTION (How's that Johnny?) Win New Brass CCI 350 Primer Hornady 250gr XTP WIN 296 Powder Rested at 25 yards COL 1.605" Grains Velocity Group Size 24.5 1395fps 2.70" 25.0 1395 2.35" 25.5 1426 2.20" 26.0 1415 1.75" 26.5 1423 2.10" 27.0 1435 1.75" 27.5 1481 1.90" Man, the recoil is not for the timid of heart So what do people think? Am I flirting with disaster here? I was expecting velocity in the 1300-1400fps range. So my results seem a little high, but i wasn't getting high pressure signs on the brass that I could find. I would probably choose the 26grain load as it offered good accuracy with velocity around 1400fps. Anyone have a suggestion for a powder charge weight for 300 grain Hornady XTP's? Thanks in advance, Mike __________________ Doctari is Doc on Safari

August 14, 2001, 08:03 PM	#2
Redneck2 Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2000 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 519	45 LC loads Don't know if you've seen it, but on sixgunner.com they have an article "Dissolving the Myth". Has tons of info on the 45 LC and IIRC it answers your questions. It's of particular interest 'cause I have a Ruger just like yours. Ain't they fun????

August 14, 2001, 09:54 PM	#4
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Looks like you hit diminishing returns after this: 26.0 1415 1.75" __________________ John Wandering Thoughts

August 15, 2001, 06:10 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!! Who wants to read about my blowed-up guns? And I certainly don't want to read about yours! Suggest new Starline case, CCI350 or Federal 155, Redding Profile Crimp die using heavy crimp. W296 is correct powder, but charge weight is based on START LOW WORK UP SLOW. Got it? Are you SURE? Good. Try 19.0g and WORK UP SLOW (.2g increments)!!!!! Do NOT try this load in your piece-of-crap XYZ; it's meant for Colt Anaconda, Dan Wesson, Ruger, TC, Freedom Arms, and the Taurus 454 Casull Raging Bull. Don't fool around, pay close attention to pressure signs, and USE A CHRONOGRAPH. My 5.5" 45 Colt Redhawk launches the 300g XTP-HP (a perfect deer bullet) at an average 1309fps, with more available (but no need!). Your results may vary. My lawyer can kick your lawyer's ass, so don't complain to me. Please please please all you novice loaders read these warnings carefully. Guns can break, folks can get hurt. This "Heavy 45 Colt Loads" subject is out there in danger land, and if you're not sure STOP ......ASK ....... and be safe. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 15, 2001, 11:45 AM	#6
JohnK Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2001 Location: Duvall, Wa Posts: 552	Doctari those figured look about right, certainly in the range of what I do with my Blackhawk so I don't think you're flirting with disaster. Weshoot2's suggestion of a starting load for 300gr loads is a good one. To quote a famous sixgunner "each sixgun is a law unto it's self". What works in my or someone elses Blackhawk may not be safe in yours. Using 310gr LBT bullets I've had to go substantially above Weshoots starting suggestion and still don't get to 1,300 fps, cases also still fall out of the cylinders too. But you should still start low, use a chronograph and work up slowly. Better safe than sorry. __________________ John http://www.handloads.com Molan Labe!

August 14, 2001, 08:25 PM	#3
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	High pressure 45 LC loads in modern guns have been well documented. Nothing new! And Jacketed ammunitions generates much higher pressure levels than those of lead. Which means that the upper end of the load data posted goes beyond the 32000 CUP prescribed by ALL experts in this field. Robert

August 15, 2001, 11:48 AM	#7
JohnK Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2001 Location: Duvall, Wa Posts: 552	Weshoot2 "Good. Try 19.0g and WORK UP SLOW (.2g increments)!!!!! Do NOT try this load in your piece-of-crap XYZ; it's meant for Colt Anaconda, Dan Wesson, Ruger, TC, Freedom Arms, and the Taurus 454 Casull Raging Bull. " Do you not think that the 6 shot 45 Colt Taurus is able to handle the same loads as the Blackhawk/Anaconda etc? I have not seen the 45 Colt Taurus, but the 44 Mag is a massive sixgun, I'd think the 45 Colt version could handle what a Blackhawk can. __________________ John http://www.handloads.com Molan Labe!

August 15, 2001, 12:30 PM	#8
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Taurus is a company that is very inconsistent in the quality control department. Chamber diameter, tolerances and consistency is critical for these types of loads. So results may vary from gun to gun. Robert

August 15, 2001, 12:55 PM	#9
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Doctari, read everything here: http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/Default.htm I don't think you were too far over, but I'd use the 26.0 grain load IMHO. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

August 15, 2001, 01:37 PM	#10
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 1999 Location: Deep East Texas Posts: 474	I think you are unneccessarily straining your weapon. My favorite and consistent shooting load for my .45 Blackhawk is 25.0 gr. of H-110 behind a hardcast 250 gr. RNFP. This is my "high-power plinker" load that I have used to get used to the stout recoil this load provides. In my testing with a chronograph, over a variety of climatic conditions, yields the 1300 to 1400 FPS range. Also, it seems, with the batches I use that W296 and H-110 are very similar in velocity if you add 1 gr. to the H-110 load i.e., 20 gr. W296 = 21 gr. H-110. I personally would not go over 26 gr. of W296 in .45 Colt regardless of bullet weight... YMMV, __________________ Yes, in fact I do have a 454... in more ways than one. "No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

August 16, 2001, 06:01 AM	#11
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	ONLY the guns specified. "Cause [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] blows up." __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 21, 2001, 04:42 AM	#12
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have an sw model 29 [44 mag] that wieghs about 40 ounces and when 240 gr bullets propelled by 24 gr H110 leave at 1450 fps, the kick is just right. I can see at the real guns article on loading for the 45C Ruger Bisley that the same recoil was possible at lower pressures: http://www.realguns.com/archives/006.htm

August 21, 2001, 04:04 PM	#13
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 1999 Location: Deep East Texas Posts: 474	Thank you Weshoot2 I reiterate, ONLY FOR RUGER BLACKHAWKS AND REDHAWKS, OR CUSTOM 5 SHOOTERS. (Freedom Arms, Linebaugh, etc...) Maybe Dan Wessons, or large frame Colts, but I am not sure... CAREFUL!!!!! __________________ Yes, in fact I do have a 454... in more ways than one. "No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

August 21, 2001, 05:17 PM	#14
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	DOCTARI--- Nicely done, sir, and thanks for your cautions. And thanks everyone else. Nothing wrong with some experimentation. The .45 Colt is one of my all time favorites, and it will take an amazing amount of hot-rodding, in proper firearms, and with all due caution, as y'all all have already indicated. I don't currently have one of the "massive" handguns mentioned, so my heavy load experimentation with .45C is pretty much in days past. A bit of creeping arthritis also dictates that I exercise restraint, because I'm really not into pain. My favorite load for my Mountain Gun is within published loads. Well, I DO have one pet load, with H. Universal that's a bit over the top . . . Best to all Johnny

August 21, 2001, 07:02 PM	#15
high_caliber Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2000 Location: Louisville, Ky., USA Posts: 107	I just got the Redhawk and a Bisley Blackhawk; both with 5.5" barrels. Where can I start with 296 and hard cast 230 gr. roundnose or 200 gr. SWC?

August 22, 2001, 06:46 AM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	h_c No. Use extreme-quality bullets only for your 'heavy' loads; the cheapies will vaporize into clouds of lead dust. Both Beartooth Bullets and Cast Performance have plenty of info and linkage on their sites; suggest starting there. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 22, 2001, 08:39 AM	#17
high_caliber Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2000 Location: Louisville, Ky., USA Posts: 107	WESHOOT2, Thanks for the pointers.

August 22, 2001, 11:26 AM	#18
JohnK Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2001 Location: Duvall, Wa Posts: 552	I gotta go with Weshoot on this one, don't try to use 230gr LRN or 200gr LSWC under heavy loads of 296/110. Those bullets are designed for the 45 ACP not heavy 45 Colt loads. In the past I tried loading some "45 Swift" loads using the 200gr bullets. They were so inaccurate I was lucky to hit the paper at all much less get anything that remotely looked like a group. Heavy 45 Colt loads using cast bullets are best made up with heavy bullets, at least 255gr. The big 45 Colt loads really work well with 300+ gr bullets around 1,200 fps. __________________ John http://www.handloads.com Molan Labe!