8 gauge & 4 bore ?

Solitar · April 10, 2000, 09:41 PM

Anyone here have any experience or knowledge of shotguns larger than 10 gauge? Uses, pros, cons, availability of guns & ammo, reloading, etc.?

B Shipley · April 10, 2000, 11:26 PM

I've read that a four bore (I believe that this is blackpowder only) is the most brutal shooting experience you can imagine (certainly not helped by crescent metal buttplates) and that some notable shooters of this era found their nerves seriously afflicted by the experience, some to the extent they were never as good again. These guns would probably be classed as artillery by the ATF today.

Steven Mace · April 11, 2000, 12:01 AM

Solitar, laws were passed back in 1918 preventing the sporting use of 8 gauge or larger shotguns in the USA. Firearms chambered for 1-4 gauge were used as punt guns or against dangerous game in Africa.

Steve Mace

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After today, its all historical

[This message has been edited by Steven Mace (edited April 11, 2000).]

K80Geoff · April 11, 2000, 07:30 AM

Believe it or not, punt guns are still legal for duck hunting in England! The guns are mounted on the front of a boat and the boat is aimed at a raft of ducks, at night, real sporting isnt it!

Shooting Sportsman Magazine had an article on punt guns in england several years ago, got a lot of anti mail from duck hunters over it.

Geoff Ross

fal308 · April 11, 2000, 08:08 AM

In the latter part of the 1800s, these large bore firearms were used mainly, in the USA, by commercial market hunters.

Dave McC · April 11, 2000, 10:16 AM

Here around the Chesapeake, market hunters tended to use the 8 ga for wing shots and larger punt guns for shooting at rafted ducks and geese. Some ran into 2 inch bores, more like cannon than shoulder arms.Common loads for the 8s were 1 1/2-2 1/4 oz of shot.

Lots of families on the Eastern Shore still have old 8 ga Parkers,LC Smiths,Ithacas,etc, oft in rough shape as heirlooms and wall hangers. Waterfowling guns, especially during black powder days, took a beating internally and externally.

Hueco · April 11, 2000, 12:28 PM

Winchester and Remington have some, but they are industrial guns.

B Shipley · April 11, 2000, 02:54 PM

I don't know how it would be for waterfowl, but my comments were predicated on the experiences of those who used them for African game.

Daniel Watters · April 11, 2000, 04:09 PM

The Russian firm Tula is making a 23x81mm (4 gauge) shotgun which looks like an oversized Ithaca Roadblocker converted to pump action. There are reportedly military/police models, one of which even comes equipped with nothing but a pistol grip.

Coinneach · April 12, 2000, 01:02 PM

4- and 8-gauge?!

Criminy, and I thought firing a 10-gauge was an exercise in masochism...

Solitar · April 12, 2000, 01:50 PM

These guys add some good info about 2 and 4 gauge.

I once saw a 2 gauge that was used by market hunters in the Sacramento bypass shooting ducks for the San Francisco markets in the early 1900's. It looked like a small canon... http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold....fisherman.htm

Supposedly they were able to get some 100 birds with a single shot. Gun was mounted on a boat bow,... http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold....miroeeeee.htm

K80Geoff · April 12, 2000, 07:44 PM

I wonder what gauge the old M79 was, as I recall they did make buckshot loads for it during the Vietnam war!

A 4 gauge pump shotgun, OUCH!

Geoff Ross

[This message has been edited by K80Geoff (edited April 12, 2000).]

B Shipley · April 15, 2000, 01:48 PM

I think grenade launchers are 40mm, so you need to determine how many lead balls of this diameter will comprise a pound to get the gauge.

G50AE · April 19, 2000, 01:54 AM

What is a "Punt Gun"?

Dave McC · April 19, 2000, 06:10 AM

Punt guns are extremely large shotguns used while fastened to boats(punts) and fired at flocks of waterfowl while they rested on the water. With bores measured in inches more than gauge, they were not meant to be fired from the shoulder.Almost all were muzzleloaders.

Think of small, smoothbore cannon firing loads of a half lb of birdshot or so.

G50AE · April 19, 2000, 06:28 PM

Do they make an "onsides-kick" gun too?

Coronach · April 19, 2000, 09:59 PM

*groan*

G50AE · April 20, 2000, 10:05 PM

What about a point after touchdown (PAT) gun?

Saeed · April 22, 2000, 08:45 AM

Gentlemen,

It looks like that I am the only one on this thread that have fired a 4 gage shotgun.

As mentioned in some of the previous posts, this was a punt gun. It was a double barrel side-by-side, the two triggers both had a ring each so that a lanyard can be tied to it, and the stock had a 2" diameter hole in it for a cross member to be installed with in the punt.

The ammo I fired was loaded by Eley, and had #1 shot. I cannot remember the exact weight of that shotgun, but I would think it was around 20-25 pounds. The recoil was not as bad as from a Ruger #1 we had re-chambered to 460 Weatherby magnum.

------------------
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[email protected]" TARGET=_blank>www.accuratreloading.com

[email protected]</A>

April 10, 2000, 09:41 PM	#1
Solitar Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2000 Location: Solitary Posts: 717	Anyone here have any experience or knowledge of shotguns larger than 10 gauge? Uses, pros, cons, availability of guns & ammo, reloading, etc.?

April 10, 2000, 11:26 PM	#2
B Shipley Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Posts: 719	I've read that a four bore (I believe that this is blackpowder only) is the most brutal shooting experience you can imagine (certainly not helped by crescent metal buttplates) and that some notable shooters of this era found their nerves seriously afflicted by the experience, some to the extent they were never as good again. These guns would probably be classed as artillery by the ATF today.

April 11, 2000, 12:01 AM	#3
Steven Mace Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1999 Location: Clifton, Colorado USA Posts: 724	Solitar, laws were passed back in 1918 preventing the sporting use of 8 gauge or larger shotguns in the USA. Firearms chambered for 1-4 gauge were used as punt guns or against dangerous game in Africa. Steve Mace ------------------ After today, its all historical [This message has been edited by Steven Mace (edited April 11, 2000).]

April 11, 2000, 07:30 AM	#4
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Believe it or not, punt guns are still legal for duck hunting in England! The guns are mounted on the front of a boat and the boat is aimed at a raft of ducks, at night, real sporting isnt it! Shooting Sportsman Magazine had an article on punt guns in england several years ago, got a lot of anti mail from duck hunters over it. Geoff Ross

April 11, 2000, 08:08 AM	#5
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	In the latter part of the 1800s, these large bore firearms were used mainly, in the USA, by commercial market hunters.

April 11, 2000, 10:16 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Here around the Chesapeake, market hunters tended to use the 8 ga for wing shots and larger punt guns for shooting at rafted ducks and geese. Some ran into 2 inch bores, more like cannon than shoulder arms.Common loads for the 8s were 1 1/2-2 1/4 oz of shot. Lots of families on the Eastern Shore still have old 8 ga Parkers,LC Smiths,Ithacas,etc, oft in rough shape as heirlooms and wall hangers. Waterfowling guns, especially during black powder days, took a beating internally and externally.

April 11, 2000, 12:28 PM	#7
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Winchester and Remington have some, but they are industrial guns.

April 11, 2000, 02:54 PM	#8
B Shipley Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Posts: 719	I don't know how it would be for waterfowl, but my comments were predicated on the experiences of those who used them for African game.

April 11, 2000, 04:09 PM	#9
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	The Russian firm Tula is making a 23x81mm (4 gauge) shotgun which looks like an oversized Ithaca Roadblocker converted to pump action. There are reportedly military/police models, one of which even comes equipped with nothing but a pistol grip.

April 12, 2000, 01:02 PM	#10
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	4- and 8-gauge?! Criminy, and I thought firing a 10-gauge was an exercise in masochism...

April 12, 2000, 01:50 PM	#11
Solitar Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2000 Location: Solitary Posts: 717	These guys add some good info about 2 and 4 gauge. I once saw a 2 gauge that was used by market hunters in the Sacramento bypass shooting ducks for the San Francisco markets in the early 1900's. It looked like a small canon... http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold....fisherman.htm Supposedly they were able to get some 100 birds with a single shot. Gun was mounted on a boat bow,... http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold....miroeeeee.htm

April 12, 2000, 07:44 PM	#12
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	I wonder what gauge the old M79 was, as I recall they did make buckshot loads for it during the Vietnam war! A 4 gauge pump shotgun, OUCH! Geoff Ross [This message has been edited by K80Geoff (edited April 12, 2000).]

April 15, 2000, 01:48 PM	#13
B Shipley Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Posts: 719	I think grenade launchers are 40mm, so you need to determine how many lead balls of this diameter will comprise a pound to get the gauge.

April 19, 2000, 01:54 AM	#14
G50AE Junior member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Posts: 275	What is a "Punt Gun"?

April 19, 2000, 06:10 AM	#15
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Punt guns are extremely large shotguns used while fastened to boats(punts) and fired at flocks of waterfowl while they rested on the water. With bores measured in inches more than gauge, they were not meant to be fired from the shoulder.Almost all were muzzleloaders. Think of small, smoothbore cannon firing loads of a half lb of birdshot or so.

April 19, 2000, 06:28 PM	#16
G50AE Junior member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Posts: 275	Do they make an "onsides-kick" gun too?

April 19, 2000, 09:59 PM	#17
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	groan

April 20, 2000, 10:05 PM	#18
G50AE Junior member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Posts: 275	What about a point after touchdown (PAT) gun?

April 22, 2000, 08:45 AM	#19
Saeed Junior Member Join Date: April 21, 2000 Location: Dubai. U.A.E. Posts: 7	Gentlemen, It looks like that I am the only one on this thread that have fired a 4 gage shotgun. As mentioned in some of the previous posts, this was a punt gun. It was a double barrel side-by-side, the two triggers both had a ring each so that a lanyard can be tied to it, and the stock had a 2" diameter hole in it for a cross member to be installed with in the punt. The ammo I fired was loaded by Eley, and had #1 shot. I cannot remember the exact weight of that shotgun, but I would think it was around 20-25 pounds. The recoil was not as bad as from a Ruger #1 we had re-chambered to 460 Weatherby magnum. ------------------ <A HREF="http://www.accuratreloading.com [email protected]" TARGET=_blank>www.accuratreloading.com [email protected]</A>