200yds on Iron Sights (AR-15)

[Bronxbomber252]

Well I decided after having my home built AR for a little bit that I would see what I could do on my iron sights. Shot this 10 shot group at 200yds, benched from sandbags, target is 12"x12". The flyers off to the left I knew were botched as soon as I pulled the trigger. Overall I am pretty happy with the group, considering it was on iron sights at 200yds. Attached is the target image.

Rifle specs:
Andersen lower
PSA lower parts kit
Magpul MOE collapsable stock
Magpul MOE handguard
A2 pistol grip
AIM upper and BCG
DD 16in barrel CHF, chrome lined, 1:7 twist, with mid length gas
A2 FSB
Troy BUIS
A2 Flash hider
Inforce WML HSP
zeroed at 50yds with Fusion MSR 62gr .223 SP

Ammo: PMC bronze 55gr .223 FMJ

this was done on a whim just for fun, I want to try again at some point with the Fusion that the rifle is zeroed with since I seem to get by best groups with that anyway.

[rickmelear]

Works for me, good shooting with open sights.

[ftttu]

Nice shootin'. I haven't shot iron sights at that distance since the '80s while in the military. I'd be happy with that group at 100 yards. My eyes got old at 40 and the just keep getting worse now at 50.

[TheDoubleDeuce]

Hey those are some pretty good shots. My group would be a bit larger than that. Then again I'm using a Mosin with surplus ammo and no bench rest! Did I mention it has wire insulation on the front site to bring the POI down? Lol! But enough about me... I know people like their ARs. Good shooting.

[pgdion]

Open sights at 200 ... I'd take that any day of the week! Nice shooting.

[Bronxbomber252]

Thanks all! Most of my shooting is off hand or in a standing or prone supported position, just plinking at various size steel at distances from 100-200yds. This was my first attempt at a 200yd group.

@deuce: had I been shooting my Mosin (hungarian M44), off hand, with the surplus ammo I have... I would have been thrilled just to get 7or8/10 on paper! Lol.

@Ftttu: I wish the current USAF M4 qual had us shooting that distance. Currently, for the precision portion we shoot at 25m at a target with different size silhouettes to simulate distances out to 300m. Prone supported and unsupported, kneeling and standing supported. some strings with an aimpoint (with and without gas mask), and some on iron sights. Then we have a close quarters kinda tactical portion at the end with man sized silhouettes at 7,15, and 25m. I barely qual'd on the precision part when I first shot the course back in june, practicing with this AR (that i completed shortly thereafter), I went back this month and shot expert. Back then id have been lucky to get them all even on paper even from a bench at 200.

[Theohazard]

Good shooting! It's been a while since I shot that far with irons. Back in the Marine Corps we had to qual at 500 yards with iron sights. But that was a while ago, I doubt I could do it again without lots of practice.

[SHE3PDOG]

You should strive to do it in an unsupported position now just for fun. The Corps shoots 12 in discs (for full points anyway) in the unsupported sitting. Give it a try!

[Bronxbomber252]

@Sh3pdog: I like that, sounds fun! Will have to try it next time!

[Wyosmith]

I am in the process of making a dedicated "iron sight rifle" that I think will be fun

I am taking an A3 flat top upper and installing a 27" long 1-8 twist match barrel on it. I will set it up like a standard 20” rifle, with the rifle length gas system, but I will drill the gas port about .010" smaller than standard to allow for the longer gas dwell of the extra 7 inches. I will use a low profile gas manifold and cover the whole works up with a free float tube.

Next I am machining my own extra long free float tube. This is just on a whim. The standard length FF tube would work fine, but I think I want to do this like a super long "dissipator" and bring the tube within 1/8" of the front sight.

The GI front sight tower will be just that, a sight tower. The gas block is going to be back on the barrel where it’s unseen.

I will set the front sight for windage so that it is zeroed when the rear sight is in it’s center of the windage range. That will give full adjustment both right and left. When I get it set perfectly for windage and have a zero for elevation at 300 Meters I will cut off the top of the tower and weld on a block of steel to install a Lyman 17A Globe front sight to center at the same height over the barrel as the old GI pin was.

The will give me a long rifle with about a 30 inch sight radius and excellent adjustment range out to about 600 meters using the detachable carry handle with match sight in it.


I will also be able to easily scope the rifle for load work-ups, and when I get the load to shoot as I want it to, I will remove the scope and riser and place the carry handle and rear sight back on top. I think this is going to be a really nice iron sight AR. I am not setting it up for any specific competition, but I do think the rifle will be the cat’s meow when it’s done.

[Damon555]

That is some mighty fine shooting!

I just tossed a DPMS A3 flat top upper with a DPMS carry handle attached on to my DPMS lower. My first shots were at a clay pigeon at 25 yards....No sight adjustments at all and I was right on target with the supplied post sight. I was also able to hit a 12" metal plate about 50% or 60% of the time @ 200 yards.

I like the post just fine but it's not great for precision open sight shooting. So I ordered up one of these.....

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/498...-reticle-matte

I still need to get out and sight it in but having used this type of sight before I know that it works like a charm.....

[Bronxbomber252]

@Wyosmith: that sounds like one heck of a rifle.

@Damon: interesting frot sight post.

Mine is just a basic multi-purpose carbine. Im sticking the the GI size aperture and post, since that is what my M4 has (well, that and an Aimpoint CompM4) and since I only get to shoot that rifle for the periodic requals (annually and within 120days of any deployment). So i like to have my personal AR similar in that regard for practice.

[tgreening]

You should strive to do it in an unsupported position now just for fun. The Corps shoots 8 in discs (for full points anyway) in the unsupported sitting. Give it a try!

Apparently it's changed?

Back in the day it was 200 yrds standing @12", 300 yrds sitting, and 500 yrds prone.

[SHE3PDOG]

Standing, kneeling, sitting at 200, sitting at 300 on the disc, then you move on to a couple larger targets for rapid fire and longer distances (500) in the prone. I do stand corrected about the size though, it is 12 inches. I'm not real sure where I got 8 from. Just to be clear to those that haven't done it, the 12 inch disc is what you have to hit for full points, but there are a lot of Marines out there that just hit it every once in a while.

[shooterT]

ok i know this thread is a little old but the picture of his target serves pourpouse for my question... out of my m4 with iron sights or my holographic sight my groups look like this at 50 yards. now i know im not the best shooter in the world but i would think better than that. now i will say that was with surplus amunition and i just started reloading and i think i have a good load worked up but have not been to the out door range here to test them at a distance for acuracy. could it just be the surplus ammo??

[Bronxbomber252]

It depends… I was shooting PMC Bronze. Historically I have found it to be marginally more accurate in MY rifle than the surplus stuff. But not by much. You have left out shooting position. If you shoot a group like mine standing un-supported at 50, I would say you are doing very well, it you were sitting at a bench shooting from sandbags (like I was at 200) and are getting that size group at 50, I would say that there is either a problem with the rifle, or your shooting. And of course there are all kinds of things in between.

when I qualify at work with my real M4, I can shoot sub 1inch groups with military issue ammo at 25 meters with both my iron sights and my aimpoint prone with a shooting block, but standing unsupported, it opens up a lot. (then we go to three round bursts and it is all I can do to keep all 3 on a man sized target at 25 meters lol)

[kraigwy]

In service rifle high power matches, you shoot both Standing Slow Fire and setting Rapid Fire.

The target is the SR1, The dimensions are:

X = 3 inches
10 = 7 inches
9 = 13 inches

Therefore if you can keep your groups within 3.5 MOA, using the sling, setting in Rapid Fire (10 shots in 60 seconds with a magazine change) you can clean the target.

Its doable with practice, you have to clean or near clean the target to be competitive.

[darkgael]

In service rifle high power matches, you shoot both Standing Slow Fire and setting Rapid Fire.

As I understand the rules, both the crosshair front sight and the extra long barrel cited earlier in this thread would not be allowed in Service Rifle....they would have to shoot Match Rifle. Is that correct?

out of my m4 with iron sights or my holographic sight my groups look like this at 50 yards. now i know im not the best shooter in the world but i would think better than that. now i will say that was with surplus amunition and i just started reloading and i think i have a good load worked up but have not been to the out door range here to test them at a distance for acuracy. could it just be the surplus ammo??

I would bet "yes, it is the ammo."
I shot some South African surplus out of my AR and was wondering whether the gun had somehow gotten off Zero. Then I tried my own loads....prone, irons 100 yards and the group tightened right up....still not the best shooter in the world but better than with that surplus stuff.
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...CB5BD7D510.jpg
Pete
PS - At my age (67), the real task is getting back up from prone after shooting a string.

[kraigwy]

the crosshair front sight and the extra long barrel cited earlier in this thread would not be allowed in Service Rifle....they would have to shoot Match Rifle. Is that correct?[

Yes